New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

League Rules:

All league members must register with the league page at http://www.myleague.com/se4 using their PBW Username. Failure to use your PBW username will result in removal from the league and loss of standing.
PBW does not require you to keep your emaill address current, however Myleague.com does. Failure to do so may result in loss of account and league standing.

All legaue games must be declared as such prior to their start and all players in teh game must be league members.

Games can be either solo games or team games.
a.. Solo games are NO treaties, no gifts, no trades, no surender.
b. Team games allow all these things, but only to a member of your pre-arranged team. Between players not on the same team and between teams there will be no treaties, no gifts, no trades, and no surrender.
Unofficial alliances cannot be effectively prevented and so will be allowed. But no treaties except between team members. Treaty status must be None, War, or NI at all times during the game. NA and higher is not allowed. Subjugation and Protectorate are not allowed.

All other settings for games are acceptable as long as all parties involved agree to them. This includes any gentleman's agreements, which must be clearly delineated prior to the game start. Players and owners are encouraged to choose game settings which will facilitate faster game resolution.

All league games must have a game owner who is not participating in that game. The game owner can be but does not have to be a league member.

Players can play in as many games simultaneously as they can handle.

Players/Teams who feel their position is untennable, or who are for personal reasons unable to continue are encouraged to remain in the game but will be permitted to withdraw and report the game as a loss. Surrender is not allowed. If the game has more then one remaining players/teams they can continue and the withdrawing players/teams spot can be turned over to the AI on full minster control, or a non-competing replacment player can be found to take over the spot. This replacment player/team does not have to be a league member. Whether or not they are a league memeber they will not receive credit for a win or a loss regardless of their preformance in the game and teh final standings. And they must follow the league rules in the game, including No surrender, no gifts, no trades and no treaties.

Contrary to the standard MyLeague rules posted below, losing and withdrawing players DO NOT report a loss only to the eventual winner of the game. They report a loss to each player/team remaining in the game at the time they leave the game. Losses to several players must be reported in the order that those players are on the ladder. You must replort a loss to the highest ranked player first. Not in order of score in the game, or any other order.

The following are the generic Myleague.com rules. I have included them because they explain the reporting and standings rules well. Anything in these rules that contradicts the rules I posted above does not apply to our league. Eventually I will update the rules on the league website and have only rules that apply to our league.

The Ranking System
MyLeague.com has one of the simplest ranking systems ever used for competitive play. We call it a "Ladder" because each player has a unique rank or "rung" that represents their standing among other players. The highest ranked player holds the #1 position. Someone ranked #2 is ranked below the #1 player. So, the goal is to "climb" the Ladder all the way to the top.

When you first join you are placed in the "Unranked" Category of the Ladder.

You become "Ranked" after winning your first Ladder match. (Unranked Users can play each other and the winner becomes ranked at the bottom of the ladder.)

When you defeat a higher ranked player you move up half the distance between their rank and your own. Example

Your rank on the Ladder does not go down if you lose a match unless your opponent is ranked DIRECTLY below you.
Example

When other players beat people above you and jump over you in rank you will slide down.

Some special rules exist for players ranked in the Top Ten. These rules will be covered in a later section.

Account Rules

Since your Ladder account is where all your records are kept we have some special policies regarding it. These are very important and you should pay close attention to them.

E-mail Address

Your E-mail address must be kept current on the site, as it is the only way we have of contacting you. Use the 'USER EDITOR' if you need to change it.

If your E-mail address is found to be invalid your account will be penalized or removed.

Ladder Names

If your Ladder name is offensive to other Users or contains profanity your account will be removed.

If your Ladder name is found to be abusive towards another user your account will be removed.

If your Ladder name is found to be too similar to an existing user's nickname you will have to choose another.

You are only allowed to change your Ladder name once per week.

Your Ladder name must match the name you use in chat and play your matches under exactly. This includes spaces, underscores and other keyboard characters. If it doesn't the match is invalid and your opponent is not required to report any losses to you.

Players should never report a loss to a name that is different than the one their opponent used during the match.

[ August 05, 2003, 19:33: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

You have too much time Geo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Great idea, though, and settings I like - even if I don't mind a little diplomacy from time to time I really prefer playing as lone wolf.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Suggestions/Questions [edit]:

Surrender IS allowed but only in 1 vs 1 games (what's the harm, right?)

Should standard game settings be established in the event the players (team or otherwise) can't agree on settings?

Should there be an arbitrator or panel of arbitrators to settle problems and disagreements?

Should any penalties be specified for anyone breaking the rules?

Should there be a standard turnaround time specified?

How does one start a game with someone (or some team)? Invitation? Challenge? What if someone refuses the challenge? What if, say, #2 on the ladder continually refuses to play (saying he's busy with too many other games or something...which could be legitimate)?

[ August 05, 2003, 19:52: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, if someone wants diplomacy they can join a team game. Those are allowed in the league as well. What I am trying to avoid is the normal progression of games where players get ganged up on and eliminated one at a time. I like that as well sometimes (Survivor tourney) but I don't think it's appropriate for a league where your standing is supposed to be determined by your own performance. By limiting the trading to team games we make sure there aren't players going as lone wolves up against wolf packs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

[ August 05, 2003, 20:02: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In a one on one game surrender ends the game, so it doesn't really matter if you say you allow it or not at that point. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We needed that for KOTH, but it's not neccesary for this becuase if they can't agree they can always walk away and join another game.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">For now that will be me as league admin. Eventually if this takes off I will get some volunteers to help me as league admins.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not too many rules to be broken, but we can always kick someone out of the league if they do.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think this is well covered by the game settings which all players need to agree to when joining and stick to.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There are rules for that in the standard MyLeague setups. I think most of those will carry over well. I will remove what doesn't. Eventually the special rules for top ten players will apply, but until the rankings get fleshed out some I don't think we need to worry about that too much.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

OK on the answers, Geo. It's just that, in my line of business and considering the losers I provide service for, EVERYTHING needs to be spelled out.

Otherwise, I was referring to people who failed to report losses, or reported them in the wrong order, or reported them late (after positions had changed due to a different game)...stuff like that. I wouldn't expect a lot of it, and surely 99% of the KOTH players have be great sports! I guess I just worry. (of course, the administrator can handle those on the fly, I guess... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is something I should have addressed in more detail in my previous post. Let me elaborate. Eventually this will all be codifed in teh league rules.

The Myleague was designed for games that only take a few minutes ot a couple hours to play, involving two or just a few players. Board games, computer games, etc. So some of the stuff is going to need adjusting to fit our purposes, but most of it is flexible and applicable.

One of the main considerations in the Myleague rules is that of activity. The default for Myleague is that players must play at least one game every three weeks. This would be reflected either by them reporting a loss to someone or someone reporting a loss to them.

Since most SE4 games Last more then three weeks, and we want to have a format that allows games of any number of players, following the default Myleague rules to the letter would be difficult.

The first thing that will have to change is the required activity time. I can change this in the league admin settings. Secondly by changin gthe rule from reporting a loss to only the eventual winner, to reporting a loss to all the players remaining, players will generate a lot more activity.

If you have a game with 20 players for example, every time someone gets knocked out of the game that goes as an activity for that plaeyr and every player still in that game. If players have two or three games running simultaneoulsy they should be able to keep up a decent level of activity just from players getting knocked out and reporting losses to them.

If a player is in only one game and it is a satble game or one with slow turns, they might have problems. If that is all a person can handle though they might want to consider whether a league is a good idea for them.

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Could you please elaborate on how matches come together?

Is it the challenge system?

What if multiple players pose a challenge to a higher rung person at the same time?

Rank #100 has much more to gain than Rank#1... he would climb 50 ranks!

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, administrators can report losses for people that don't report them. And all that stuff will be spelled out at some point, including punishment for non-compliance. I just haven't got it all pulled together yet. I wanted to get the site up and let people register so I can get a feel for how many are going to take advantage of this. If it's just me you and Roanon maybe it won't matter. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

why not have the winner report the win ???

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of the games will not require an official challange. They will simply be league games opened on PBW for people to join as they wish. Lower players have more to gain by winning, that is correct. But everyone needs to play or they start to slip down the standings due to inactivity. And reporting a loss costs you nothing in the way of ladder position unless the loss is to the player directly below you on the ladder. And then you only lose one spot.

Once the rankings are fleshed out some the challange rules will take effect for players in the top ten.

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Casue that's not how the Mylegaue system works? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Acutally it seems backwards at first, but once you dig into it you realize how smoothly the system works. By having the loser report you avoid the pimple head who joins the laegue and start reporting a bunch of wins for games that never happened. Then the admin has to run around cleaning up after them. Pimpleheads are stupid and wouldn't see a point in reporting a bunch of losses. Even if they did report a bunch of losses a pimplehead is probably going to be unranked none of their loss reports have any effect. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

[ August 05, 2003, 20:28: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Geo said:

"Most of the games will not require an official challange. They will simply be league games opened on PBW for people to join as they wish."

So, for a one-on-one game, I post a game, say it's a "league" game, specify the settings, and then wait to see who in the league takes it up? Same for a multiplayer league game?

If I'm understanding correctly, would it be easier to start some sort of PBW League Game thread to post invitations or challenges to?

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

< low whisper > Psst, Slynky
(I think Geo is in the same line of work you are)

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You could do that. There is also a forum on the league page you can use to drum up a match or find players for a league game.

The main thing to remember though is that you can't be the game owner for your games, so don't just create the game yourself on PBW. For a game with several players it might work better if you find someone that's willing to host a game and have them create it on PBW and then you can post something saying "Hey come join this new open league game." or something like that. For one on one games though it would probably work just as well to find your opponent first and then find a game owner.

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I have just registered. There are 5 unranked now. Come on everybody! Lets have some fun!

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heh, now if we could just get PBW back up we could setup a game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I'm in.

(BTW, who is "spoon"?)

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Spoon is Spoon, of course.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I'm in.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lies!

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I would be available to help host games and make maps and such.
I won't be playing in any games.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I went ahead and joined. This should be pretty interesting. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Geoschmo, how will the 21 day match inactivity clause on the site work with PBW since a typical PBW (and even some KOTH games) take longer than that?

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think he explained that several Messages below. If you are in a few games in the ladder, especially a multi-player one, someone reporting a loss to you (in a multi-player game) will cause you to have activity and reset your counter. Take a look down for more detail.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ah, thanks Slynky. I read the original post and then went to the website to check it out and join. Didn't read all the intermediate Posts.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">So they will let you change the required activity time in the league admin pages? That is good, seems like they might have wanted to keep it low to promote all of their premium memberships.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's probably part of it considering the premium members are exempt from getting purged due to inactivity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif But they do allow me to set the limit as high as 255 days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I don't think we need it that high though. I am thinking 90 days. How does that sound to everyone?

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I'm guessing you can't set durations for different types of games...so it has to be for the slowest game. So what's that? Our Challenge game has been going longer than that. My Rd 5 Tourney went around 4 months. Both have/had 6 players. 90 would seem to be a minimum. Of course, that activity setting could be "set to zero" again if a person was in some other game that either he ended or got a reporting off of. And, of course, in a multi-player game, surely someone would be out (and reporting the loss) before 90 days passed. (assuming I understand things correctly)

Seems like a tough call. 90 is a good start, I guess.

[ August 06, 2003, 02:24: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I set it to 90 for now. As things progress if it looks like players are getting close to getting bumped for inactivity despite a legitiamte effort to play games we can change it.

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Would the KOTH games also count as a League game if both players are members of both?
Did I read correctly that all players of the game need to part of the League for it to count?

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, remember Gryph is an "honorary" player and respected map assistant. So, let's call it 12.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I have updated the Game specific rules section of the league rules page. Please let me know if anything is unclear or if you have any suggestions.

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Well, I signed up.

I'm not sure about the managing of the whole challenge thing- it seems like the players at the top will be constantly hounded for matches, since a victory against them reaps the greatest incentive and progress.

I guess the deterrent is that someone at the bottom will probably get their glutes kicked by the top players; so it is best to be realistic with whom you challenge.

I'm hoping there is an indicator that is assigned to your profile that displays you as "looking for a match" as opposed to "on hold" ...or the likelihood is there that your mailbox will be constantly flooded with challenges.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If it becomes a problem, or perceived in advance to be a potential problem, a simple rule (like we used to have in a chess ladder I belonged to) could be made that says challenges can't be made over two rungs above you.

Of course, since there doesn't seem to be a formal challenge type thing going on here, maybe it won't be a problem. It's a bit strange as in KOTH, you have no choice. You play who you are matched up against and other than saying you're taking a break, you WILL be playing.

Also, let's consider the guy who is 3rd on the ladder (wants a chance to advance). He's waiting to play the guy who is 1st (who is currently in a game) and also receiving requests from "below" from other people who see him "inactive".

[ August 06, 2003, 15:22: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Hounding the top players can be a problem with large leagues, and the simple solution there is that to officially challange one fo the top ten players you have to be in teh top 25 yourself.

The likely small number of members may make that solution unworkable, but I am hoping it prevents the problem as well. Time will tell.

Another thing to remember is because the league is small, and because Se4 games take so long to finish, you really have no exact idea what rank the player you are playing is going to be when teh game ends. You could be above him, but by the time the game finishes he could have leapfrogged you by beating players above you.

The other thing to remember is the rankings aren't going to be worth a lot as a comparative value until we get several results per person at least. At first the only thing a high rank will indicate is you were one of the first people to complete a game. I really shold have started this a year ago. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any consideration to "grandfathering" in the KOTH win/loss stats? That would get things going...

Hey and what do you know... hmm... isn't this a coincidence??? I'm tied for most wins in KOTH... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Is this idea going to even work? I am having second thoughts I guess. Is a ladder format like this just unworkable for games that take as long as Se4? It's going to be so heavily skewed towards players that finish their games early in teh life of the league. Those that get the top spots early are going to be nearly impossible to dethrone, and those that get a late start will be stuck at teh bottom for a long time.

I am starting to rethink this league thing. Does anyone have any brilliant ideas that would make for a more competative and dynamic league?
And still allow for games of different sizes?

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Any consideration to "grandfathering" in the KOTH win/loss stats? That would get things going...

Hey and what do you know... hmm... isn't this a coincidence??? I'm tied for most wins in KOTH... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmmm, then we need to do something about that..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif :

Try these rankings by win percentage: (note * indicates less than 3 games played)

Rollo 5 5 0 100.00%
Mark 4 4 0 100.00%
BBegemott 2 2 0 100.00% *
Grandpakim 1 1 0 100.00% *
RexTorres 8 7 1 87.50%
Asmala 8 6 2 75.00%
Preacherman 4 3 1 75.00%
Grazic 4 3 1 75.00%
Georgig 4 3 1 75.00%
1FSTCAT 4 3 1 75.00%
Stone Mill 11 8 3 72.73%
Kazarp 12 8 4 66.67%
Slynky 6 4 2 66.67%
Krsqk 3 2 1 66.67%
Imperator Fyron 3 2 1 66.67%
Primitive 8 5 3 62.50%
Roanon 5 3 2 60.00%
Lord Chane 5 3 2 60.00%
Zarix 7 4 3 57.14%
Cheeze 9 5 4 55.56%
Geoschmo 11 5 6 45.45%
Sparhawk 9 4 5 44.44%
Tescosamoa 8 3 5 37.50%
Mathias_Ice 6 2 4 33.33%
GozGuy 6 2 4 33.33%
Pablo 3 1 2 33.33%
EMPerror 3 1 2 33.33%
Thermodyne 11 3 8 27.27%
Gandalph 11 3 8 27.27%
Phoenix-D 8 2 6 25.00%
Warlord Ragnarok 9 2 7 22.22%
Gecko 6 1 5 16.67%
Nodachi 6 0 6 0.00%
Dreiko 3 0 3 0.00%
Rambie 2 0 2 0.00% *
Quikngruvn 1 0 1 0.00% *
Parabolize 1 0 1 0.00% *
DarkHorse 1 0 1 0.00% *
CombatSquirrel 1 0 1 0.00% *
Chocolatefro 1 0 1 0.00% *
Tbontob 0 0 0 0.00% *
Taera 0 0 0 0.00% *
Rojero 0 0 0 0.00% *
Master Belisarius 0 0 0 0.00% *
Katchoo 0 0 0 0.00% *
Joachim 0 0 0 0.00% *
Deccan 0 0 0 0.00% *

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Geo, I think your league idea is good as it stands!

It might be difficult for a newbie to climb the rankings, but not impossible. As long as the top players are relatively active, there will be chances for others to defeat them. And just one win in such a game could propel the newbie well up the ladder.

If we start having problems with entrenched players at the top, then perhaps we could go to winning percentage, or change the inactivity rules. But for now, why not go with your original idea, and adjust only if necessary?

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

I suppose this is going to "freak" people out and have some say, "It's TOO complicated", but all it needs is a spreadsheet.

So, create the league. Everyone who joins gets a provisional (starting) rating (as described below...but it doesn't have to be 1,000).

Then calculate Ratings using the USCF method:
------------------------------------------------
First of all, a "rating" is a "Performance Average". USCF uses 2 formulas -- one for provisional Ratings and one for established Ratings. A provisional rating is given to a player who has played less than 20 rated games. If the player defeats an opponent, he gets the opponent's rating plus 400 points; if the player loses to an opponent, he gets the opponents rating minus 400 points; if the player draws with an opponent, he gets the opponents rating. (For calculation purposes, unrated opponents are considered by USCF to be rated 1000.) All of these numbers are added together and averaged, and that is the rating. Expressed mathematically, the formula is:

............W - L (400)
R = Y + -----------
..............G

Where R is the rating, Y is the average rating of all opponents, W is wins, L is losses, G is the number of games played. [NOTE: Each draw is equal to half-a-win plus half-a-loss.]

Once a player has played his 20th rated game, his rating becomes "established", and is calculated on a logarithmic scale called an "expectancy curve". The basic formula looks simple enough:

R = P + K(W - W')

R is the new (post-event) rating, P is the old (pre-event) rating, W is wins, W' is the "win expectancy", and K is a constant whose value depends on the player's rating (K=32 for 0-2099, K=24 for 2100-2399, K=16 for 2400-3000).

The formula for calculating the "win expectancy" is somewhat more complicated:

W' = 1 / {10 ^ [(y - x) / 400] + 1}

W' is the win expectancy, x is the player's rating, y is the opponent's rating. [NOTE: the little "^" indicates an exponent.]

For established Ratings, the points gained (or lost) depends on the rating difference between the two players but cannot be less than 1 point, nor more than 32 for any given game. If a player rated 1600 plays against an opponent rated 1500, the "win expectancy" is 0.640 -- meaning, in the long run, the 1600 player should win about 64% of the time against the 1500 player. Let's say for the sake of argument that the 1600 player defeats the 1500 player. How many points would he gain? Plug the numbers into the formula:

R = P + K(W - W')
R = 1600 + 32(1 - 0.64)
R = 1600 + 11.52
R = 1612

So the answer would be 12 points gained by the 1600 player, 12 points lost by the 1500 player.
-------------------------------------------------
Now, the provisional rating wouldn't necessarily be needed and we could go straight to the regular way of doing it.

Multiplayer games would have the new Ratings figured against everyone who played when the game was over. So, in a game with 4 people, the winner would do 3 computations using his rating -vs- the rating of the other 3. 2nd place would then do the same (winning against two people and losing against one).

Anyway, there's an alternate suggestion. And, it would be a simpe webpage to show.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Geo, I think your league idea is good as it stands!

It might be difficult for a newbie to climb the rankings, but not impossible. As long as the top players are relatively active, there will be chances for others to defeat them. And just one win in such a game could propel the newbie well up the ladder.

If we start having problems with entrenched players at the top, then perhaps we could go to winning percentage, or change the inactivity rules. But for now, why not go with your original idea, and adjust only if necessary?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, thatnks for talking me down there Chronon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I kind of lost it for a moment. Well at least let this rinde for a while and see hwo it goes. No sense scraping it at least until we see there is a problem with it.

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If both players want it to count as a PBW league game as well, and they agree to do so up front. They don't have to make it a league game if they don't want to. But you need to agree up front and let a thrid person know so that when it's over there isn't a dispute abotu whether it's supposed to count for the league too.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I did say that. Do you think that's a bad rule? I wasn't commited to that one, just thought it sounded like a good idea. If somone want's to make a case agaisnt it I will consider it.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Well, certainly a 2-player game would require both participants to be members...otherwise, who would you report?

As to multiplayer, I suppose, for example, an 8-player game could have 3 non-members in it but I think I'd be a bit reluctant to be in a game like that. Also, assuming non-member play is allowed, what does one do when non-PBW League members break rules and affect the results for the member players?

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

The reason I asked about non-league members and KOTH, is because in the amount of time I have being playing I have only finished (& lost) 2 games (not counting KOTH) and I am still going strong in 5 other games, one of which started almost 2 years. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

I'll join but I'll admit up front, I'm limited in the number of games I can join. I'll see if the players in my new game will consider it a League game even thought I know not everyone (my partner/wife for one) will be a league member. If not, hopefully KOTH games will keep me active http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Including past Koth games could be a good idea for getting starting rankings, but that would benifit some people, including me but not everyone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

13 league members already. Woo Hoo! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

One advantage to requiring all players be league memebers is everybody will have an incentive to keep the game moving at a good pace.

2 years is a long time. It's not unheard of, but it's a bit unusual. I would venture a guess that there have been some significant stretches of time with no turns being run. That should not happen in a league game.

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Glad to help, Geo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm looking forward to getting started. Considering the size of my "empire" in 20/24, and the two minutes it takes to do my turn, I should have plenty of extra time for another PBW game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

90 days seems short - I havent been in a game yet thats been that fast unless I have had my rear end kicked early on, which I must admit is pretty common event for me...

I feel a bit unclear on the activity bit - RL tends to take me away- so I am hesitant...After getting bogged down in three games at once for a year + real time.. I decided to limit myself to one PBW game at a time...

[ August 07, 2003, 03:43: Message edited by: AJC ]

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">We can adjust it if it looks like it's gonna be too short. Keep in mind though that the games don't have to completely finish in 90 days. All you need is for one person in the game to get knocked out every 90 days or so for you to have some activity. Smaller games tend to run faster, but even big games should produce sufficent activity if the players are regular with teh turns. If you are only in one game and it only has turns every week or so though you might have trouble. But if that's all you play, you probably aren't that interested in a league anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

Re: New league forming, "The SEIV PBW League"
 

Actually I am interested - I am just sitting here debating...wondering if I can maintain enough activity Online to avoid the ol Boot.

the PBW game I am in right now I believe has 48 hr turns

I like the idea you put forth.

I play SE4 all the time ... Some major games.. I am currently in a massive hot seat game using Fyrons Quadrant mod,TDM Mod pack and My mount mod in the beta Version of the game. I have 300 Planets, 7500 units and 240 ships with 149 in the constuction queue, including 4 ring worlds.

[ August 07, 2003, 04:07: Message edited by: AJC ]