Another game down the drain
 

IG3 done like Stars supernova

CDV Software Entertainment AG, publisher of computer games and application software, announced today its outlook on the figures for the second quarter of the current year and announced rigorous restructuring measures.

Net sales from April to June at approx. EUR 4 million are expected to be approximately at the level of the previous year.

The second quarter of the previous year closed with a moderate loss of approx. EUR -1 million (total year 2002: EUR -185,000). In the current quarter, a considerably higher loss of approx. EUR -4 million before taxes is expected.

Targeted sales growth for the second quarter was not realized due to several shifts in release dates and below-schedule sales. Personnel levels, which were built up in expectation of much higher growth, will be adjusted to the new situation at short notice. The restructuring measures impact all areas of the company and will be realized by allowing limited work contracts to expire and also by operation-related notices of termination.

With sales lagging behind expectations, a value adjustment of EUR 930,000 was taken on the Heaven & Hell game in the Last quarter. As the prospects for the success of the Galaxy Andromeda project are also not considered to be very high, the project will be ended and a value adjustment made.

Despite the very promising product pipeline for the 2nd half of this year, the Management Board no longer expects a positive result for the whole of the financial year.

The Management Board

Re: Another game down the drain
 

So this leaves, basically, just SEIV and GalCiv as the only 4X space games left going? [MOO3 does not even rate mentioning...]

Re: Another game down the drain
 

i think our genre is being killed off because they do not make truck loads of money.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

IIRC didn't they have a combat demo for IG3 out like a year or two ago? I know they did. So WTF is taking them so long? Well I guess I have my answer now. Money.

Everyone needs to be paid so they drag out the programing process for as long as they can bilking the money from the developer or publisher until finally, they are forced to release a bitter POS that receives horrible reviews and poor sales.

What gets me is that they are doing this more and more. In recent times we have seen this with several games, Civ 3, SC 4, UR 2, and MOO 3.

Another thing that chaps my *** is that Gamespot and several other gaming sites gave MOO3 a glowing review despite the truth that the game sucked!

I fear that the genra is dying and the only hope for survival at this point is SE V.

I wonder when the light at the end of the tunnel will be turned off because fiscal cut backs?

Re: Another game down the drain
 

The genre is not dying, the model to exploit it is. The market for strategy/war games is still out there. Maybe the 'big name' companies will drop it... but someone will take it up.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Tabletop/board strategy/war games went through the same lifecycle. Very few people earn a living from publishing those games anymore - yet the genre continues. And the games that exibit craftsmanship and innovation are either one-man efforts or from very small teams.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And thank god, "someone" *wink* *wink* did http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Another game down the drain
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One simply has to note the decline and fall of Avalon Hill to see the truth in gecko's statement. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

(EDIT - found this article on the subject... The Fall of Avalon Hill )

[ August 11, 2003, 10:36: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Another game down the drain
 

that is a sad story indeed

Re: Another game down the drain
 

That was a very interesting article General. Thanks for posting a link to it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I know MicroProse published Birth of The Federation, but didn't they also publish Moo and Moo2?

All three of those games were good games. So what happenend with MOO3?

Re: Another game down the drain
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What really got to me was the part about Hasbro making the buyout offer to AH, forcing them to settle with Microprose, then buying Microprose 3 weeks after they ate AH. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Could be a coincidence, could be uncoordinated duplication of effort, but I'm a suspicious person by nature... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ August 11, 2003, 17:50: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Yes, the golden days for game software are over. Cheap but graphic-heavy junk doesn't sell that much any more. The kiddies all have played dozens of them and are growing tired of it. Gone the days when you could sell virtually anything as long as you could get a 99% in graphics from the reviewers. The reviewers being another problem, as they continue to lie and cheat for game producers money, they are biting the hand that feeds them - the reader's hand. Only one of them publicly apologized for their overly positive review of MOO3, for instance.

Especially difficult is and was selling junk to hardcore strategy gamers who above all expect a game and not colorful clickfeasts. So, as we do not provide the market for fast-money-for-nothing, the big companies are leaving, now that they have found out the truth. I hope smaller companies with less expectations and more willingness to work for their money will now have a chance to take back that niche.
I can live with 10 less MOO3-type games while getting 1 more SEIV-type game instead. But, the sad truth is, while the quality may increse the quantity will surely decrease. Do not expect a new good strategy game every year - or even every two years.

What happend to MOO3 is a different thing - the problem is it got into the hands of a company that didn't intend to do a 4x strategy game. Sold as SimGalaxy, which it really is, it would have caused less uproar - but also much less sales probably. Beaten to death this way, I doubt that anyone will be able to revive the series.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes. They also published Civ and Civ 2, and Colonization, and some other awesome strategy games (as well as a few dozen other good games). Sadly, they are gone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Another game down the drain
 

There is a fundamental difference between Publisher and Developer. I tend to ignore publisher' label and look who is really behind the game.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Yes, but Microprose was the developer of most of those games. MOO and MOO2 were developed by Simtex, but the rest by the Microprose team.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Wow, this is sad, sad news. I played that demo, and it was awesome.

You felt like you were in the middle of a real space battle.

If I could get that feeling, with the tactical game of SEIV.... *goosebumps*

Re: Another game down the drain
 

I live in Colorado Springs and we have an airport. Once upon a time a ambitious company called Western Pacific decided to make us their hub for their new airline. This was during the boom and the city was growing wildly as companies brought technical and customer service jobs to the area. They made a lot of money and were quite successful while they stayed in their niche.

Then one day Westpac decided it was time to grow, time to take risks, time to make more money. They moved their hub to Denver International Airport, where they could reach more, where they had a larger local pool to draw from, where they had more prestige, and where they got beat down by TWA. Westpac was not ready to play with the big boys. TWA beat the snot out of them and the company went under.

The moral of this story "stay in your place" in this case does not apply to the developers or the publishers but in a fit of personification, to the genre itself. Right now maybe this genre does not belong on somewhere that it has to compete with click-fests, walk-through adventures, MMORPGs, RTSes and racing games. To attempt to design a 4x game that will compete for the attention that is typically given these other genres has resulted in failure.

As long as a 4x game stays with its, admittedly limited, 4x audience it can still be successful. That's my opinion and wacko theory for this specific moment. I might be wrong, and I might just let it go.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

you want to feel like your in the middle of a battle?

homeworld.

yeah, i agree. people who play strategy games don't want a click-fest 4x and people who don't play strategy games don't want to sit for up to an hour to play there turn. on the other hand, i don't really want to sit for an hour either. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Another game down the drain
 

I hear a german firm is still doing Imperium Galacta 3.

I guess until someting better comes out I'll play a bit of SEIV. I did find a really delightful and simple game called "War! Age of Imperialism" that fills in the idle time. Quick and not complex...kind of an upgraded Risk. I'd recommend it to anyone looking for some quick strategy fun...no heavy brainpower required.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

If this style of game is neglected by the mainstream publishers - the open source community is still pushing ahead - freeorion is a start - im sure a equivalent should SE5 be the Last - that a free open source alternative will arise.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Ehh... I might sound cocky, but the news IG3 and Supernova were cancelled. Is really, really, really old. The sites I used to go to weren't revised a long time ago. And I had some contact with one of the mod's from soem of those sites and they told me the games they were wating for were cancelled. They also showed me a pressrelease stating just that. So you're actually running behind, my good people.

Look at: www.starbasedelta.com
This was one of the sites I used to go to. It hasn't seen a revision for some time now. Also the forum is quite dead.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Timstone, I'm not sure what you mean by a long time ago, but if you look at the dates on the Posts this thread was started a year ago. In fact all but the Last couple Posts were from a year ago. Solops just dug up an old thread to give us what may be some new news about IG3.

If it is being resurected but by a different company your old contacts and forums might not be aware of it.

[ June 28, 2004, 11:04: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Yeah, no sense in starting a new thread. I got the news that IG3 lived from the Chips and Bits website and tracked it to this article:

http://www.gamer.tv/page/feature/23115465.htm

Which says that a Hungarian company, HD Interactive, is doing the game as "Nexus". I'm not sure this is really what the old IG3 was to be, but it is due out fall of 2004.

Apparently the German company, CDV, has dropped it.

Anyone else have a bit on it?

[ June 29, 2004, 03:22: Message edited by: solops ]

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Geo, Solops:
I must admit only to have read the first message, not the whole thread. But in my book a long time ago, is about a year. Call me old, but my memory isn't that of most people. I tend to forget things after a few weeks, so to remember something for one year, is a truely major event in my book.
But I didn't mean to critisize Solops or anyone else. I just wanted to point out that I already knew CDV wasn't going to produce IG3. After that message I haven't been looking at IG3 anymore. I also lost track of Supernova. I concentrate on SE V, my current work, the B5 Mod and some minor projects of my own.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No problem. I have so many people pounding on me every day that I don't even notice it anymore. And that is before I even get home to the wife and kids...

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Solops,

Your information is indeed correct, in that the game has been picked up by a new publisher (HD Interactive) and renamed. Back when CDV was having monetary issues, most of the IG3 team seem to have broken off to form their own company - Mithis. I suppose they managed to aquire the rights to the game, because only 2 months ago they declared that they would complete the game under the title "Nexus."

I wouldn't exactly compare Nexus to SeIV, or any of the other 4x games we all love so much. First off, its RTS. Secondly, its mission based. Thirdly, there is no unit construction. The game is being billed as a tactical starship simulator (if you've ever played the old Interplay/Taldren Starfleet Command I and II games, I imagine this will be something along those lines).

The graphics look stunning, and its supposed to have a heavy story element, but the game is in no way shape or form a 4x. I guess you could call it a kind of Star Fleet Command / Heagemonia hybrid.

-Hippocrates

[ June 28, 2004, 23:41: Message edited by: Hippocrates ]

Re: Another game down the drain
 

Sad new for IG3.
Anyway, publisher are important. Shrapnel games anyone ? Matrix games anybody ? Yes, some old grognards are gone, but don't tell me the genre is dead.
At the moment, I am playing galciv, SE4 and dominion2. I still have steel panther with all megacampaigns on my hard drive. I intend to play galciv2 the day it's done, and I'll play se5.
The market is changing, I get my wargames or 4x games from small dedicated companies and not anymore from the big names. I am an avid gamer, but the Last big publisher's product I bought was ubisoft's Il2 sturmovik (1 & 2).

Think about space combat simulator : you had some freelancer rubish (pretty, but rubish) published by a big name, while you had X2 made by an independant company and now matrixgames is publishing Starshatter (Hey Sharapnel ! why have you missed this one http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ??).

I still can play the games I like, I just had to update who's selling them.

Re: Another game down the drain
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Come on man, hang in there.
Play SE IV a little less, and play a bit with the wife and kids some more and life looks a whole lot better.
Damn, what did I just say? Play SE IV a little less... Ouch, this is going to be a loooong week.

[ June 29, 2004, 09:31: Message edited by: Timstone ]

Re: Another game down the drain
 

wow that is great news.... I had no internet for a little while there and almost missed it....

Re: Another game down the drain
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I bought the first Star Fleet Command, and it didn't take too long for me to shelve it. First of all, I hate RTS games. I'm not a 12 year old kid who has great hand-eye coordination. I like turn based games. Plus, IIRC, there was too much of a learning curve for SFC. I'll stick to SEIVG and the occassional Galactic Civiliations. If another turn-based 4x game comes out, I'll probably give it a try, unless it gets the reviews that MOO3 did.