Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Bio-Psych Mod V 1.0

Text File1060633093.txt

Zip File1060633154.zip

My first attempt to bring some life to the Biology and Psychology tech areas. Mostly just new components. I need comments on balance, especially component costs and research costs.

Please help a first time modder. I'm hooked.

[ August 25, 2003, 14:35: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Feel free to submit the mod to the downloads section of www.spaceempires.net.

For troop comps such as Infiltration Command, I suggest changing the Ship Bridge ability description so that it says it contains a cockpit or some such. Alternatively, you can delete everything after the = sign on that description line. This will make it so that the description is not displayed at all in-game, instead of having a pointless "None" ability tag. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Abomination is 30 kT, but the largest troop is 20 kT. It can not be used. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

I suggest increasing the Minerals cost of Evolved Crew (for ships) a bit, so that they will increase build times.

I suggest you move the components at the end of the file to be next to normal-tech equivalents, so there is less chance for someone to forget about them.

[ August 11, 2003, 21:42: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Fixed the description errors. Can't see how I missed the Abomination being too big.Hmm. (I'll post v1.01 tommorrow)

How much would you suggest increasing the Minerals on the Evolved Crew? 50? 100?

Any comments on the concepts? I think most of the things will work the way I want them. Most of the testing I did seemed to work, but I don't have time to run super-thorough tests.

[ August 11, 2003, 22:19: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Wow. This is great. I can see the WH40K influence.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Enough to make a difference. Probably a bit more than 100.

Can you please write a concise description of the purpose of the mod so that it can be included on the Malfador.com Mods List page?

[ August 12, 2003, 04:30: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Brief Description:

Bio-Psych Mod

The purpose of this mod is to bring some flavor to the Psychology and Biology tech areas by adding some useful combat options in each. In addition, I never liked how adding ECM or Combat Sensors affected a whole stack of troops. Instead I added command units that can affect a whole troop stack.

[ August 12, 2003, 14:10: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Nice treatment of Troops.

Did you actually change anything in those other files (mounts, facilities, quadrant types)? <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You put the 99 on II and III, and on all three Doomships. Only this one is missing it.

Suicidal Assault Escorts! POW!!

What happens if a Troop stack has both a Infiltration Command and a Assault Command in it?

If you put a Large Troop packed with all the best stuff and an Abomination from an opposing race in a box together and only let one out, which one comes out? How about a bonus-maxed Large Troop, a Siege Fortification, and a Ground Cannon Large Troop against three Abominations, or any other three Large Troops with at least one Abomination? I'm just curious how it's going to work out. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Same problem for Combat Apothecary III.

[ August 12, 2003, 17:45: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

No I didn't change the other files. Just Components and TechArea. Can I just leave the others out of the zip file?

Did you think the Suicide Assault was too powerful? I would have liked to make it a destroyed on use item (I envision it like a boarding party of sorts), but that doesn't work on weapons. I made it reload 30 so you could only use it once in a combat. I made it use a lot of supplies, which was as close as I could get to making it destroy itself. Suggestions?

More erros to fix. Thanks for the heads up.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Would it be useful to people to include text files with just the new components and techs so they could easily cut and paste them into their own mods?

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think that's why you put it at the end...

But yeah, that couldn't hurt.

I'm not sure Suicide Assault needs much more abuse. Only once per combat might not be 'realistic' (picture an empty ship drifting through combat, maybe make it use up _all_ the supplies?), but it does help with the balancing. You could also make the component have a very low structural value, as a balancing measure....

I think Mounts can be applied to it as well... I'm not sure how that fits into the 'realism' thing.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Well, the mounts should up the supply usage, too. So hopefully that will balance that a little. I thought abut making it larger, but I do want smaller ships to be able to take it. I might up the supply use a little and drop the structure value some. That makes sense as the weapon is "marines" rather than an actual piece of equipment.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">One of two things:
They stack, getting net 0 bonus/penalty.
The best of each ability is used, thus granting 40 bonus to both.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

I thought if the components were different families the bonuses would stack. Wouldn't the +40 attack and -40 attack stack for a 0 net? And if it did, why bother using both units?

[ August 12, 2003, 20:16: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's what I'm worried about. Though if he made them both from the same family... wait... would that even make a difference? It would still take the best of each, wouldn't it?

If that's the case then there really is no reason to ever put offensive or defensive detractors on Troop or Satellite components, since both allow dissimilar stacking. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh... yeah... I didn't think of it that way. Is that how it would work?

[ August 12, 2003, 20:19: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Troops are weird in many ways. I think that the best bonus is used of each type in the troop stack, regardless of families... you should definitely run some extensive testing.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ack! Troop testing! Is there anything blinder!?!

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

If it only counts the best one, that's going to make several components useless.I'll run some tests tonight (hopefully) and see what happens. It'd be great if anyone else could run some tests to corroborate. Does the same problem come up with ships?

In the meantime here's v1.01. Mostly minor changes

Text File1060716774.txt

Zip File1060716927.zip

[ August 12, 2003, 20:40: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Ships would have the abilities all stack when they are on different families, so using the same comps on one ship gets it both the penalties and both the bonuses for a net effect of 0. With 2 components in the same family, just the best bonus is used.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The problem here comes from the way the components on separate Troops in a stack work, so ships would be affected in much the way you'd imagine.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Could you please not change the name of the mod folder in future Versions? It would be best to leave it as "Bio-Psych Mod", to make it easy to install updates and not have tons of redundant folders...

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Tested the command troops. The evidence seems to point that positive and negatives stack/don't replace each other.

I ran several tests:

*A baseline that used 10 'null' commands that just matched the damage resistance, but had no abilities

*One using 10 Assault Command (+40attack/-40defense) which yielded more casualties on both sides

*One using 10 Infiltration Command (-40attack/+40defense) which yielded fewer casualties on both sides

*One using 5 Assault/5 Infiltration (theoretically cancelling each other out) which yielded the same results as the 'null' test.

Conclusion: The bonuses add together, and don't replace. Excellent!

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Running the tests in the Simulator I ran into some interesting sights:

*I thought that the first troop loaded was the first one damaged. I ran the tests with the special troops on the defender side, and the first "loaded" appears on the left-most slot, while militia appear on the right-most.

*In the 'null' test, the nulls (second slot) were never damaged.

*In the 'assault' and 'infiltration' tests, the commands always took damage at the same time as the other units (slot 1). The other units were smaller, does that make a difference?

*In the 'mixed' test, the command in slot 2 always took damage, but the command in slot 3 never did.

*In another test I ran but didn't write down, I used the abomination (-50/-50 but +50to hit to its own big damage weapon) I lost units in slot 1, the aboms in slot 2, and Militia, too! And these happened before slot 1 or 2 was completely destroyed.

So how are the hits in ground combat allocated? Just from my brief observations, I can't figure out a pattern.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Oh yeah, I realized Last night that v1.01 that I posted didn't have the Abomination and Siege Fortification fixed (they're still 30kt) because...well because I'm an idiot.

So here is the *correct* v1.01

Text1060781490.txt

Zip1060781610.zip

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

I noticed the current Version of the bio-psych mod doesn't have any of the facilities that were in the pre-1.0 Version. Is this a mistake?

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

No, it was intentional. I'm still figuring them out. Plus I don't have any images for them, yet.

After all this bonus stacking talk, I wonder: If a facility has a +40 bonus X/-40 penalty Y and then you have another facility tha has a +10 bonus Y do you end up with +40X/+10Y or +40X/-30Y? I assume it is the latter, which sucks.

On the other hand Secret Police HQ (big bonus to Intel, big penalties to all other resource production) might still work. You would still have to use up a slot to counteract the penalties. And, I suppose it is unlikely you would use one except on a very Intel oriented planet anyway.

*Propaganda Center should work fine. Small bonus to all production that wouldn't stack with any others. It has very limited use, though. You'd only need it for a planet with many different resource generators, which I assume would be rare.

*I still want an Xeno Profiling Center to give a system wide combat bonus, but I don't want to steal the Traits thunder and lessen the impact of things like Shrines and Events Predictor. Hmmm...maybe if the Propaganda Center was system wide it might be more useful

*I was also thinking about making cheaper Intel projects like seeing opponents tech, designs, and dispositions. Some kind of tech area that allows you to do Psych profiles of your enemies to determine how they will act. EDIT: Now that I think about it, Force Concentrations is the only Intel project that makes sense from a psych profile standpoint.

Any ideas are welcome

[ August 13, 2003, 16:01: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Another facility idea: the Frenzotron (uh, that's a working name)

Death Shrine-like systemwide bonus to damage
War Shrine-like systemwide penalty to combat

Simulates stirring the population up into a bloodthirsty frenzy. They hit hard, but in their mindless battle-madness they lose discipline and training and blindly and savagely attack the enemy.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Image Mod question

As I add more to this mod I think I want to use the Image Mod, at least for components. How do I go about getting permission? Also, what should I do about adding new pics into it? Can I just add them to my mod only, or do I have to submit them to the Image Mod first?

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

You do not need to get permission to use the Image Mod. It is there for anyone and everyone to use. If you want to make new submissions to it, simply number your images such that they use empty slots in the components file from the Image Mod (new lines can be added as necessary), with both the Portraits and Minis (preferably with the minis all in one file), and a Credits.txt file. Then, zip them up, and create a post about it.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now with Facilities, only the highest bonus is used; there is no stacking, sadly. Add a facility -500% minerals production and one with +10% minerals production to a planet, and it will get +10%, with the -500% ignored. You can still partially get the effect you want (assuming negative values actually work for these abilities, needs testing) because the planet will get the penalty unless you build an appropriate bonus facility.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

I ran some tests over the weekend. Negative modifiers do not work for planet or system wide facilities. At least the resource generation type modifiers, anyway.

I think I'll work around this by dropping the Secret Police HQ entirely. I'll have a Propaganda Center that gives minor boosts system-wide to all resource generation (Intel, Research, Min, Rad, Org) and a War Morale Center (name?) that gives a minor system wide boost to combat and damage. By minor I mean 2,3,6%.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

What about facilities that lower environmental conditions or happiness?

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Good point. I didn't try those. No existing facilities that I've seen have negatives, so maybe they don't work either. I'll see if I can test it tonight.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Bio-Psych Mod v1.1

Text1061218097.txt

Data1061218046.zip

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Negative conditions modifiers will work (as well as negative values); and they should stack with positive facilities. This is because multiple facilities of this type add together.

Negative system happiness abilities are ignored. However, negative planet happiness abilities do work. But, if any positive happiness facility exists (planet or system IIRC), then the positive takes effect, and the negative is ignored. This is because only the best happiness facility can affect a planet; extras have no effect.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

So a Secret Police HQ could give + to Intel and minus to Happiness on a planet. Would the penalty to happiness counteract the bonus to Intel?

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Maybe. That depends on the sizes of the bonuses, and if the happiness penalty is enough to drop the happiness level below jubilant. Some troops on the planet would counteract it, or just a UPC in the system would replace it.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Bio-Psych Mod v1.15-now using Image Modpack!

Text1061392859.txt

Data1061392902.zip

[ August 20, 2003, 16:24: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Coming Soon:

Seeker Mod (needs a better name)

*I'll start it a standalone mod, but eventually add all the Bio-Psych stuff. I'll be testing them together soon.

*Purpose is to increase the use/value of seeker weapons throughout the game. I've often seen people say that seekers couldn't compete with direct fire because of mounts and shield/armor skipping abilities.

Changes in brief:

*Changed torpedo to seeker causing 50% more damage than CSM, slower speed, slower reload,and slightly less range than CSM. Also increased size of Torps to 60kt.
*Added Large, Heavy, and Massive Mount CSM, Anti-Matter, and Quantum torpedo. These are components (not actual mounts) designed to reflect using these weapons on mounts. I simply swapped the structure increase of the weapon to be the seeker damage resistance. This creates large, fragile, expensive mounts that allow seekers to absorb PD fire and do huge damage.
*Changed Quantum torpedo to be skip normal shields, with added tech req
*Added several seeker comps from other mods, and slightly tweaked them. These include the Light Missile System from Proportions and the Sprint and External Mount missiles from Devnull
*Added hyper-kinetic missiles as beefed up Sprint missiles that skip armor
*I made it so that the seeker player can choose between a variety of weapons. Offered weapons that have a 1,2,3, and 4 reload time. Coupled with the mount comps, this gives you many choices.
*Also added many PD comps from several mods,and toned down the bonuses slightly. This creates the ability to create layered point defense at short, medium and long range.

*Added Advanced Robotics Racial Trait/Tech (my first attempt)
*Grants several new vehicle types including the Probe, Observer Satellite, Sentinel Droid (fighter-type), and Sentinel Mobile Bases.
*Access to smaller/sooner Master Computers
*Robotic Repair Nodes
*Robotic Launch Bay
*Some virus defenses

[ August 20, 2003, 16:41: Message edited by: KnidVermicious ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Propaganda Center III requires Applied Political Science 2 instead of 3.

War Morale Center I-III all have 6 for damage bonus, and there is no description for that ability or mention of it.

Death Ray II requires level 1 technologies.

The ability descriptions for the troop components that have Bridge ability need to be changed to reflect that instead of saying "None."

The "New Components" and such files seem rather out of date...

Btw, I added this to Adamant Mod (with credit ofc). Hope you don't mind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 25, 2003, 09:40: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

Feel free to use it, Fyron. Thanks for all of your help. Life is getting a little hectic right now, so I won't get around to updating the mod for some time.

Re: Bio-Psych Mod v1.16
 

OK, I lied. I forgot I had the modfiles here at work. So here is v1.16 with just minor bugfixes. Thanks, Fyron.

Text1061818343.txt

Data1061818302.zip