impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

I am seriously considering hosting my next game using the Pirates and Nomads mod. Before we begin the game, I would very much appreciate it if people would share their impressions of the mod. Is it well balanced? I would especially welcome comments from anyone who has gone up against Nomad or Pirate players!

The infiltration capacity of the pirates and the fighter ability of the nomads seem like they would be significant advantages over the standard player. Is there an offsetting disadvantage?

Also, one problem we have wrestled with in our present game is the power of the Talisman. Does the solution in P&N (three levels of talisman with low levels heavy) balance the value of the talisman effectively?

Thank you,
Merry

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

I haven't played P&N often, but it seems like a fun mod if you subtract the population modifiers that can really drag on construction for some basic facilities - even with large populations!

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Pirates and nomads have a BIG disadvantage... they can't colonize planets! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif This makes them MUCH harder to play than normal races (btw, remember to setup your empire file with "normal" if you don't pick "pirate" or "nomad" otherwise you're REALLY screwed! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

I'm not so sure about the Talisman; on the one hand, the lower level ones are bigger, but on the other hand, they are available at level 2 of religious technology! Talk about a talisman rush! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif (I guess though that since they crowd out weapons on smaller ships, that makes them impractical until you've researched some fairly large hulls anyway, but I still don't think it's quite enough to balance it out...)

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is only in the PBW Version. The non-PBW Version does not have that.

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Fyron:
Since he mentioned the three-talisman thing, he must be talking about the latest Humans-only PBW Version.

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The low level talisman is quite impractical. Especially considering the QNP system, which forces you to spend more space on engines at the expense of weapons.

I would say offhand, that the first talisman is only worth it on Bases or Baseships.
The top level talisman is only worthwhile on the bigger ships, say Battleship or higher.

For the smaller ships, use the Talisman mount. You sacrifice the extra damage of a large mount, but don't have to include a talisman component.
A nice tradeoff IMO.

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As for the Pirate/Nomad advantage; Unless its a roleplaying game, a Pirate or Nomad dosen't stand a chance. The regulars will eventually be able to clear the storms and overwhelm with sheer numbers.

Choosing more than one trait from the Pirate/Nomad/Normal trio is considered blatant Cheating, unless the game is specifically set up to allow it in big, bold lettering http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

For a multiplayer match, you may consider letting players choose either Normal or Pirate+Nomad.

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Idea:
How about a game of Normal-race Newbies vs Pirate Veterans, which would be both a challenge for the vets, and a survivable learning experience for the new players!

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

That's a neat idea, SJ.

Another idea is that a pirate or nomad might team up with a normal empire, to make the best of both advantages as a team. It would also allow the pirate to strike at nominal allies of the normal empire.

Also, pirates and nomads could use diplomacy to offer their unique services to multiple Normal empires, in exchange for resources, bases, planets, trade, etc.

PvK

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heh. Try a Nomad race with all 6 racial tech traits, plus Living Ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

One of the bits I really like in the PBW Version is the way fighters use small-mounted ship weapons (and shields).

WMG-fighters! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Aren't the Micro/Mini/Small fighter mounts in the latest non-PBW Version?

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

My opinion about this mod : Very interesting but very hard to play when you're a pirate or a nomad.
Against AIs, you have to know the game by heart if you try to play those. In PBW, you need a normal race as a strong ally to keep alive, I think.

BTW : don't forget the ultimate pirate shipset :
http://sotas.clan.st/pirates
(available on PBW... when PBW works!)

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Could someone point me to a summary of how P&N works in practice? I understand from the general description that the Pirates have some ability to infiltrate enemy territory and Nomads have enhanced technology, including fighter technology. I also know that Nomads cannot colonize planets. Is there more specific info available somewhere? e.g., how do Nomads acquire resources? How do they counter Intel attacks, without intel facilities? I am planning to play a bit to test game play to some extent, but cannot devote the time needed to fully explore the game, and in fact, part of the idea is to give people like me (who have played the basic game) a bit of a competitive disadvantage against other players who are just starting out, so mastering nomad or pirate play would defeat this purpose! Thanks in advance for any pointers or descriptions that people can offer... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Merry

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

You could browse the Pirates Life For Me thread for details.
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...3;t=001696;p=1

Basically, you can leech off of a normal race through trade, or steal their ships and scrap / analyse 'em. With many variations on the theme.
You could arrange to be paid for privateer work against their enemies or even allies.

Pirates have to be more active, since they don't have the maintenance reduction components. They'll be using smaller ships, including the civilian ships which are completely undetectable if they want to be.

Nomads get -99% base maintenance, and the racial maintenance modifier multiplies with that.
They can afford to be more laid back, with dreadnoughts and stuff hanging around at basically no cost.

As for intel, if things get bad, the homeworld can be abandoned to break contact with the other races and instantly eliminate intel interactions.

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Of course if you've had a long history of working as a privateer for another race, you may be able to convince them to "hold onto" your planet for a period of time. Getting it back from them may prove a bit difficult, but this may be a better move than full abandonment!

I'd suggest large numbers of small ships with ship boarding capacity. Swarm tactics with cheap, fast, replaceable (read: small) ships is far more effective in most cases. This runs contrary to most games where the larger hulls give a weapons mount advantage. Boarding parties have no mounts and enjoy a "100% to hit bonus" once shields are down, so why use mounts?

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Keep in mind that abandoning your HW will also cut off all trade treaties, thus destroying all trade income. That could be disastrous.

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Sounds fun. I'm going to ask some new players to join our group, each paired with a nomad or a pirate experienced player. Who are stronger, Pirates or Nomads?
Merry

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Either would be good without pre-arranged teams.

If you go with a nomad partner, they can give you the no-maintenance ships...
If you go with a Pirate, they can get your super-stealthy ships. The Pirate Hoards might come in handy for all the trade income you'll be getting...

I'd say the Nomad would be more powerful as an ally.

[ August 14, 2003, 03:39: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

I'm playing around with P&N mod, and the graphics look great. But, when I run host, I get a message stating that:

"Unknown value "Drone Attack" for Default Strategy in record "Anti-Ship Drone.
"Unknown value "Drone Attack" for Default Strategy in record "Anti-Planet Drone."

The error comes up multiple times and I suspect it might therefore have to do with an error in executing the A.I. scripts.

What am I missing here?
Thanks, Merry
Thanks,
John

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

There are no drones in P&N, so it dosen't really matter.

Copy the defaultstrategies.txt from TDM to get rid of that.
I'll upload a fix for that in just a bit.

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Thanks for the quick reply. It occurred to me :what happens if you are playing with a mod on PBW and an error like this occurs? Manually hosting, I have to hit "OK". (I assume people have successfully played P&N on PBW, right?)

[ August 17, 2003, 00:49: Message edited by: Merry Jolkar ]

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

PBW processes turns using the command line switches, which include options for ignoring some error Messages. And, I believe it is set up to specifically ignore common error Messages that occur.

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Good to know. Thanks, M

Re: impressions of Pirates and Nomad mod?
 

Pirates&Nomads3.1b.zip

Added in the default strategies, Gun Nuts trait, and rewrote the modinfo.txt for Fyron.