Mapping Sol
 

I was wondering, whats the most accurate map of the Solar System out there, as far as SEIV is concerned.

Maybe we should get together and make a map of the Solar System in SEIV? It would be a one-system map, to be used as a template for any Map-Makers who would want it.

Of course, this raises some problems.

Should earth be a CO2, or an O2 planet(Technically its mostly CO2, but we use the O2, at least I think its mostly CO2).

Should there be 8, 9, or 12 planets?

How many moons should be included? Would Phobos and Deimos be included, or would they be considered asteroids?

I would also suggest we leave the Warp-Points out. That would be for the Users to add themselves.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Umm, Earth has about 70% Nitrogen, 23% Oxygen, and only a small % Carbon Dioxide - but since N is not a big factor for advanced life on the planet, I'd say go with O2.

I'd go with 9 planets and only major moons. That means ours, the 5 big moons around Jupiter, and a couple around Saturn (Titan and Mimas come to mind), Triton for Neptune, perhaps Miranda for Uranus, and Cheron for Pluto.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Ill go with the flow, but I realy dont think we should include Pluto or Charon. Simply too small. The Moon is larger then them IIRC. And Varuna, Quaor, and Ceres are all just as large if not larger then Pluto as well, IIRC. See the article about Naming Contraversy someone posted here(sorry, dont remember who and I am too lazy to check at the moment! ^_^).

And who would make the map anyway? Im suggesting it, but Im realy not familiar enough with the Solar System, and I also lack the patiance for SEIVs map editor.

Of course, I realy like the idea, and if no one else does it, I will. I imagine ill even include it in LR mods extras.

Moose. Moose. Moose.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

the nitrogen is mostly a balancing agent so we don't have to much oxygen.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Where did you hear that?

Re: Mapping Sol
 

i think you said something like that. plus other places.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

I think you are remembering a post wrong, as I never said that.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Well, too high a partial pressure of oxygen -is- poisonous (same for carbon dioxide, actually). But I don't think I've read anything like Narf's statement.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Heh...

Too much oxygen is poisonous because we've evolved in this atmosphere which is 70 percent+ nitrogen. A (nearly) pure oxygen atmosphere would not necessarily be impossible for life to exist in, though unlikely in 'real life' because free oxygen is chemically unstable. It's the presence of life that maintains the current percentage of oxygen in Earth's atmosphere now. It would all be soaked up in chemical compounds within a few million years without constant renewal by plants. Many simpler life forms on Earth today could handle a nearly pure oxygen atmosphere, though.

It's much the same for CO2. We humans would die in an atmosphere of more than 4 or 5 percent CO2, as I recall. This is not a universal constant but simply a function of how human physiology turned out. Lots of simpler animals can handle more than 4 or 5 percent CO2.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

You want to map the sol system only??? Got 10 minutes to spare? Now if you want to map the closest 100 systems that would be a really cool project! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif (one I've thought about doing myself but that map editor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ... <shudder> )

Re: Mapping Sol
 

yeah, to high oxygen = bad.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Earth should be an Oxygen planet - Medium sized IMHO.

IMO, there should be 9 Planets. Quaoar is technically a Kuiper Belt Object. Although Pluto and Charon are also Kuiper belt "objects", but they've been classified as a planet for a long time, so should be treated as a planet.

The larger moons should be included IMHO: This includes The Moon, Charon, all larger moons of Jupiter and Saturn: Europa, Ganymede, Io, Titan, Etc. Deimos and Phobos shouldn't be included in the map, since they are asteroids.

Just my two cents.

[ August 14, 2003, 04:24: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You could always make a random map and just move the systems around and rename them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You could always make a random map and just move the systems around and rename them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea that would be cool. Now can someone else do it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Well, SE4 isn't exactly made to represent solar systems very well. There's no real sense of scale; IIRC, if you made a scale model of our solar system with the sun the size of a basketball, Neptune's orbit would be about a mile out. And in the stock files, there are only five planet sizes (Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge)...

I don't recall the specifics of the atmospheres for all the major moons -- major as in they're usually noted, not because they're large; thus Phobos and Demios, and Charon would count, even if they are barely larger than an asteroid -- but it would go something like
tiny rock/none
small or medium rock/methane (orange picture)
small or medium rock/oxygen (Earth-y picture)
small rock/carbon dioxide (red picture)
huge astroid field
huge gas/hydrogen
large gas/hydrogen
large gas/methane? (not sure on Uranus' composition)
medium gas/methane? (not sure on Neptune's either)
tiny ice/none

All the moons would be tiny, and the gas giants should have asteroid fields in addition to moons (rings). That's probably as close as you're going to get.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I think.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Hehe nice Will I actually tried to figure this out too. Here's what I got (with my atmosphere differences in bold although yours may me right) (PS I think my atmosphere types are right but the sizes are just a guess)

Mercury- tiny rock/none
Venus - medium rock/ CO2
Earth- medium rock/oxygen (Earth-y picture)
Mars - medium rock/ none (red picture)
huge astroid field
Jupiter - huge gas/hydrogen
Saturn - large gas/hydrogen
Uranus - medium gas/methane
Neptune - medium gas/methane
Pluto - tiny ice/none

[ August 14, 2003, 05:04: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: Mapping Sol
 

I thought Mars did have an atmosphere? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It does, but I guess he considers it too thin to be worthy of an atmosphere in the game. I'd say it's about 95% CO2, so I'd make it a CO2 rather than none!

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Maybe for the asteroid belt, we can have many asteroid fields arranged in a circle between the orbits of Mars and Jupiter. Then we'll have a complete ring of asteroids around the sun, not just a single cluster.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Keep in mind that the Image Mod already has all of the planets in Sol in it (no moons though, just planets).

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think clusters would do... since if you went with rings, you'll have to make 3 rings. (The Asteroid Belt, The Kuiper Belt, the Oort Cloud).

Re: Mapping Sol
 

The idea of this project is to make it vanilla, so it can be used with base SEIV maps. Sorry Fyron ^__^.

And how will we represent the Oort Cloud? And I say put a asteroid belt on Jupiter to represent its many moons.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

No asteroids around Jupiter. Just add the 4 big moons, the rest are too small!

Just one asteroid belt between Mars and Jupiter is fine, you don't need to go crazy.

BTW, did SJ ever add my nice Sol planets?

[ August 14, 2003, 17:27: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Re: Mapping Sol
 

moons go around planets. therefore, phobes and deimos are moons, yeah? makes sense to me.

maybe astroidal moons.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

I am fairly certain that someone made a map of Sol a long time ago... try searching for it in the scenario section, or the old scenario archives (closed section) if it is not in there. It could be used as a starting point (less work to do that way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That depends on who's Sol planets are in the Planet Pack. Best way to find out is to go download it and see. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 14, 2003, 08:15: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Look here.

Mercury <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Asteriods <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ceres is not as large or larger than Pluto. It is just barely large enough to have been rendered spherical and close enough to earth to have been clearly seen long enough ago for them to have originally thought it to be a planet. It has a raduis of 466 km.

Jupiter

Jupiter has four large moons, Io, Europa, Ganymede and Calisto. All except Io should be Ice. All Ice moons are believed to have a rocky core, but are icy on the surface (even Gas Giants have a rocky core).

Jupiter has no mid-sized moons.

Saturn

Saturn has one large moon, Titan. Titan has a radius of 2,575 km. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Saturn also has five mid-sized moons between 260 km and 765 km in radius.

Uranus

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Uranus has four mis-sezed moons from 236 km to 789 km radius, I do not think they'd even qualify as Tiny.

Neptune

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Neptune has one large moon, Triton, which is icy. It also has one mid-sized moon, Proteus, with a radius of 209 km.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Good table of moons, who discovered and when, distance from planet, size:
Moons Table

Just a suggestion, but I would dispense with anything under 1500 km in diameter, call anything between 1500-2499 km tiny moons, anything over 2500 small, and over 4500 medium (if such a thing exists, don't recall).

Moon(E), Europa(J), Triton(N) = small, Callisto(J), Ganymede(J) and Titan(S) = Medium, and Io(J), Rhea(S), Oberon(U) and Titania(U) = tiny for a total of 10 moons in the Sol system. You might add Iapetus (S) to the tiny list as well.

[ August 14, 2003, 17:16: Message edited by: kalthalior ]

Re: Mapping Sol
 

maybe not moons for se4 purposes, but asteriods orbit the sun and moons orbit planets, so they can't be asteriods. micro-moons?

Re: Mapping Sol
 

Or, you could make a map of the sol system, with systems being planetary orbitals, each one contains one planet at the center of the map (like earth) and various moons spread out around it on the system map, then warp points could connect the various systems...

Actually, I might just do that.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

could even have it more to scale, with jupiter the size of a sphereworld.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think Phobos and Deimos are way too small (~25x15km) to justify their inclusion as moons, and since their is only two of them - it hardly justifies them being represented as an asteroid field.

If you included them, then you'd have to include the dozens of little moons around the Gas Giants...which is a little overboard IMO.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lord Kodos- I think this is a great endeavor and I look forward to using your map. I have often toyed with this very idea.

In fact, I think I have a very cool use for it... depending on how it shapes up!

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I once toyed around with the idea for a Mobile Suit Gundam mod, which I decided to work on at least an hour a week. In any event, thats how I more or less decided to do it. Each "system" would have been a Side(for you uninitiateds, that means a cluster of Space Colonies) and one System would be the Earth, and another the Moon.

Of course I hit a few snags. For one thing, I dont remember how many colonies are in a Side, I think it was like 40-60, and furthermore, I forget how many Sides there are. I know Side Three was farthest from the sun. Of course IIRC each Side was in one of the lagrange points.

In any event, back on subject, yeah this would be cool.

Jupiter should NOT be a Sphereworld, we are sticking to basic SEIV classifications really, so it should be a huge planet.

The idea, Zero, is to make a map that is a template for use in other maps, but not to make a map that can be used on its own.

Unless you want a Sudden Death one system map with only one planet of any real value! ^__^

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm... Now that's thinking like an earthling. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Medium sized? Are you serious? Max pop. of a med. sized planet in the unmodded game is 2Bil. We've already exceeded that. Large has a max pop. of 4 billion. Much more reasonable.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Medium sized? Are you serious? Max pop. of a med. sized planet in the unmodded game is 2Bil. We've already exceeded that. Large has a max pop. of 4 billion. Much more reasonable.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm speaking game wise. Only game wise. It's impossible to be literal in Se4. By the year in which se4 games start, if we haven't destroyed ourselves, IMHO we would have developed technology to live in all corners of the earth, which would probably increase our population by, my guess, at least 2 billion. To implement that in se4, you'd need a hugh breathable planet.

Re: Mapping Sol
 

View the planet's population more as the able work force and not the total number of all people, and it makes a little more sense. Still not much, but some. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ August 16, 2003, 02:09: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]