SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Okey dokey.. I hate to beat a dead horse, as I'm certain this has come up before. However, considering I wasn't around for that round of discussion, please allow me to rehash this particular issue.

~WHY~ must I pay an additional +40$ Bucks for a game I already paid for? Because they tacked on the name gold?

Now, I'm not complaining... erm.. wait, I am indeed complaining, however, let me explain.

I paid for the SEIV standard release. I enjoyed it for the most part, though, it definatly had it's flaws, namely the Race AI's were weak.

Also, note, that I just plopped down the additional $40 required to obtain the "Gold".

My thing is.. I don't feel good about it. I feel cheated. Please, could someone tell me that the extra $40 was worth it?

I truly like Malfador Machinations, one of the things that made me support them in the first place was their approach to releasing software.
Then, they pull this stunt and I can't help but feel betrayed. <shrugs> Perhaps I just needed to vent, however, if I don't feel my money was well spent, when I get the Gold, I probably won't be purchasing anymore MM products.

Not sure how I feel about Shrapnal Games yet. I do enjoy their games for the most part.

<sighs> I'm whining now aren't I? Sorry.
I'll stop now, but if anyone has anything they'd like to add.. you know, reassuring me it's gonna be okay, or just agreeing with me, feel free to post.

~Boz

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

They had numerous rebates and discounts for people that pre-ordered, dropping the cost down to $20... IIRC, the only reason MM released a Gold was because it was that, or go out of business.

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

It is an understandable complain. I understand you. But it is just happens, I do not play unmodded SE(Gold) at all. I play either Proportions or AIC. Those mods could not exist in pre-Gold SE. It is the admirable and relentless feedback from MM that made those mods possible. Thus, for me at least, Gold SE is a fundamentally new game worth paying for.

P.S. I refused to cash my rebate. SE->SE(Gold) is as good as getting a new game.

[ August 21, 2003, 22:47: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahh...how typical. I'm shorry my friend...sounds like you got a shlight screwing. Unless I'm mishtaken, SE Gold just went on sale...you coulda saved a couple bucks. :-)

But sale or no sale, Gold is a worthy buy if you like SEIV. While there isn't a LOT of new game play, there are many tweaks that relieve annoyances from regular SEIV and make game play more enjoyable. Not only that...it allows you to keep up to date on patches, mods, etc. It is a wee bit expensive if all you want is an upgrade although, again, there were better deals in the past.

I found it to be worth it...tho...of course...I am a man of great means and influence. :-)

*****Returns to overstuffed money bed for a short nap*****

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

There is a Version of the TDM modpack for SE4 Classic, I don't have a link handy though.

There is a good list of the gold changes in the History (zip) file.

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

I gotta admit, I felt like I had to buy SE4 Gold. I didn't want to be left out of the new upgrades and mods. If you have a bunch of friends who wanted to play Classic, then you didn't need to get Gold.

I gave away my Classic CD to a friend who I know would never buy a game. So it's fair all around.

Classic and Gold were separated by at least a year. They were the only games I bought in that time period. So, financially, I wasn't hurt by this. These were my games of the year. I don't have an NES and an Xbox, for example. Just the same 5 year old computer. People who buy a dozen games a year may have a different opinion on what they want from a game release.

I wanted to support Malfador, so I never went for the rebate. Wouldn't have been fair, friend with the game and all. I preordered, and got a rebate from that, and MM and Shrapnel got to cash the credit card and keep themselves a little more in the black for a little while. It was win-win as I saw it. Some people missed the rebate. Don't know what to say about that.

I'm grateful Shrapnel was here to provide marketing support, this forum, etc. Marketing and sales, credit card processing, shipping, handling -- that stuff just seems to happen magically, but it's not so. I may not add to the pure enjoyment of the game, but it's part of life that some costs don't seem as important to us unless we step back and try to understand them.

[ August 21, 2003, 23:35: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Boz, I was in a debate with myself about purchasing Gold, but it came down to, I find the AI to easy and like (prefer) playing humans, of which most games were with Gold.

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Check the downloads section of http://www.spaceempires.net

Or, go to the TDM home page:

http://home.t-Online.de/home/320045362204-0001/

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

<sighs>

Well, thank you all for your responses.
I suppose if it's for a greater cause, I suppose I can live with it.

However, I do spend far too much money on PC games, so I have to be very picky when it comes to purchases.

Recently, <like within the past two weeks> I bought Moo3 <HUGE DISAPPOINTMENT!> and Sims Deluxe <NO! Not for myself *shudders*, for my GF, it's not like we don't fight over the comp enough without her bein' addicted to Sims.> The point is, another $40 bucks for a game I have is just well.. it just sticks in my craw.

But, again, I suppose, if they need the money to keep them going, I suppose I shouldn't complain too much. After all, there is no denying MM's dedication to their fanbase/playerbase.

I've been away for awhile, and haven't played SE in quite some time, probably been over nine months since it's even been on my Hard Drive. But, That is mainly because I got so messed up with all the AI's and such. I kinda spent too much time tryin' to sort out all the RACES that I quickly became tired of the whole thing.

But, now, that I want to return, I find that it's gonna cost me $40 bucks to get back up to par?
I suppose it might be worth it just to avoid having to huntdown and load all the newest races and mods and such. <shrugs>

Well.. I'll quite complainin', besides, it's too late anyway, they got my money. I am intrigued by their newest project however... "SE: Something or other" That non-linar freestyle game sounds like it has promise.

Ohhhh.. quick question. I orderd the SEIV: Gold CD from Gamers Front. While I'm waiting for the CD to arrive, should be about four days, is there anywhere I can download the Gold so I can get started?

I have the day off tomorrow and would like to play. Otherwise, I'll recieve the game in the middle of the work week and one of two things will happen.. 1) I'll load it up and be late for work, probably getting fired, or 2) Live with the torture of knowing I have the Game but can't play for another two or three days.

Thanks again, I do feel alittle bit better about the money spent. Is MM doin' better financially now?

Edit/ P.S. I don't play multi-play at all. Due to the nature of my job, I do not usually have regular schedules and what not. Thus, previous attempts at tryin' to MP have not worked out. Thus, single play quality is First and Foremost for my needs. I'm in LawEnforcement and in the National Guards, Thus, I go away for weeks and even months at a time, also, my regular work schedule is pretty much at the whim of my superiors, and they are a fickle bunch.

Are the Gold Race AI's even somewhat formidable opponents in Single Play?

[ August 22, 2003, 00:00: Message edited by: Boz ]

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">To my knowledge, yes.

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Oh.. hell.. While I'm here, I would like to say Howdy to Suicide Junkie and Atrocities, I don't know if I love you guys or detest you.

All I remember is searching high and low for formidable AI's and New Mods and seein' your names pop up.

Just want to let you two know that someone out there appreciates your work and effort in the SEIV community, even if folks like myself aren't very active or vocal about it. Though, I do remember the nightmare of downloading multiple Versions of the same races. I remember the long hours of tryin' to debug the mess I made with all the downloads and races and mods. I blame you, both of you for that time lost. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Well, that's it, I'm gonna go away now, but again, thanks, and I'm eager to get my CD so I can get started again!

Oh, yeah, did you all know it costs over $50 to ship same day!? <Sighs> I opted for the UPS ground, it's gonna be a Loooooong four days. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

How about just a friendly "I'd invite these guys over for a beer and an SE4 LAN party" attitude? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Well personally I think Gold was well worth it. So much so that even though I could have got a free copy for being a beta testor I chose to purchase a copy instead. Just from a perspective of how much time spent playing I have got a lot mroe out of SE4 then any other game I have purchased.

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

SE4 ties with Civ 2 for most time out of a game for me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

way back when, a good number of members spoke about an upgrade to the game for various reasons, mods, new races, etc, after awhile MM decided to release an upgrade (Gold) which would have all the mods, new races etc on the one cd, it also included a number of upgrades to the game itself in various areas, ie; drones and more. All or most of the modders all chipped in and helped create updated mods for the game and they were put on the cd along with the game. Which helped some of us more non computer literate people who had problems downloading mods etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In reality, Gold is an upgraded Version and well worth the cost if you enjoy the game. Nothing said you had to buy it, that was and is ones own choice to purchase. There are mods etc out there for the classic game as well as the gold Version. It depends on what you want or would like to play.

IMHO Gold is was well worth the cost, As far as I can remember, Gold came out after numerous requests from players and forum members, I don't believe MM originally intended to put out a Gold Version, How would they have known the number of mods etc that came about. But when they saw the support and interest they decided to put out an upgraded Version

just some ideas mac

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Hmm... guess I listened to the wrong rumor then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Hey Boz,

I first bought SEIV and then a year later SEIV Gold because both games had what I wanted. In the time since SEIV was originally released we have had only one or two other 4x games come out. SEIV Gold was released a year after SEIV, and to me it was a new game. And indeed it was.

I did not take advantage of the rebate because I wanted all of the money I spent to go toward Shrapnel and Malfador in the hopes that SEV would be developed.

In the Last three years I have played SEIV so much that if you added the cost of both CD's and divided it by the amount of time I have played it, I paid less than .0000012 cents for it. The only other game that I have paid this little for was Tribes.

The value of a game is in how often you play it. Not what you pay for it, but how long you play it.

SEIV Gold is going strong with new players coming to the game each day. If I had but one peace of advice to offer, it would be buy GOLD and and sell your Standard on ebay.

I should also point out that Mac is correct and I do distincly remember most people who posted in the old forum saying that they would gladly pay for a Expansion pack. I was one of them, and for me buying the Gold disk was as important because I had material on the disk. That is right, Aaron saw fit to include some things that I had done on the GOLD CD, and I also contributed, ever so slightly though, to TDM Pack. It was an honor that to have my work included on a game CD that I had to have it. I have since bought a coupld more disks and given them away as presents.

I have made it a point to tell as many people as I can about the game, and to promote it nearly everywhere I go on line. I was especially successful at the MOO3 forums after that game flooped.

Spend the Cash for the gold Version, it is worth it in more ways than I can explain.

[ August 22, 2003, 06:07: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Ohh.. Good Lord.. Don't even mention Moo3!!
That has got to be one of the larger disappointments I've experienced as a Vid Gamer.

Ya' know.. I think you just hit the cord that will make me come to terms with all of this.

An Expansion pack. I'll look at it as though I've purchased an Expansion pack. Lord knows I've paid for enough of those.

But, in the mean time, while I wait for the Gold to arrive, and, since I have the day off, I tore my room up and finally found my old dusty copy of SEIV non-gold.

Now, I'm gonna go download some races and see if I can't whet my appetite for the Gold.

Thanks again for all the Posts, judging from the feed back so far, I have spent my money wisely.
Well, it's Empire building time.. Adios Amigoses.

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

I will just say I have absolutely no regrets or second thoughts whatsoever about my purchasing Gold. I too judge the value of a game (or anything for that matter) by how long it Lasts / I play it / how much enjoyment / etc.

SEIV Gold has got to be one of the best "bang-for-the-buck" products I've ever purchased; not just by game standards but by any of my standards.

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You may have some nasty surprises - preGold and Gold AIs are different. Take care to track what kind of AI files each download contains !

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

I for one have no regrets for getting "Gold" this is one game i have played for over 3 years (non gold too) the only other game I have played this long was "Air Warrior" and that was an Online game

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

You know it is kinda nice to see poeple with member numbers below 1000 posting again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It is always a treat to read one of their Posts. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It is especially nice to read one by a member that has a number below mine. And I could have sworn I registared in Nov 2000 B-4 the game was released because I distinctly recall posting about the cost of S&H. Oh well.

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

I got you beat. I registered before there was a demo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

And I view Gold as an Expansion pack. As a general rule I don't like Expansion packs. Few offer anything that couldn't be done in a patch and quite a few have just done what the game should have been in the first place.

I enjoy Gold SE4 much more than I did standard. Oh how I hate you medium and high bonus AIs...

[ August 23, 2003, 23:09: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

I don't think the question was whether MM would have stopped making games if it didn't make SE4G. I think it was that there simply would not have been the improvements made since the Last non-Gold patch.

As others have said, if you divide cost by quality and/or the amount of time and enjoyment you get out of a game, and you're a fan of SE4, then even at $100, SE4 + SE4G are very cheap compared to most other games.

SE4 by itself is still a good game, and some players didn't upgrade and you can still play with them. It doesn't take more than a few players to provide opponents.

When I went and joined in a PBW game of pre-Gold SE4 after I had played Gold, it was clear that it really is much improved.

Edit (more rambling):

I have to say I wish more game developers would do Gold Versions fixing issues and giving the fans the features they wanted, instead of the typical abandonware (and/or, crummily re-done sequel) pattern of most computer games. I'd rather pay more for an actual good game than pay the same for two mediocre games. I don't have a lot of use for mediocre games.

Of course, the pricing system of a Gold release isn't entirely fair, at least when the discount for previous owners isn't consistent. But then, game prices are rarely fair and consistent. You can go to a rip-off mart and get the latest megacorp mediocre abandonware for $50, or go on-line and/or wait a month and get it for half-price or less.

PvK

[ August 24, 2003, 17:29: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

PvK,

I agree, but that's why the issue came up in the first place. You see, I've been burnt so many times it simply isn't funny.

Just to name a few, MOO3 comes to mind, and then there is, Independence war, Cutthroats, Gangsters, and a slew of others that are essentially knock-offs of other games, such as C&C, AoE, Disciples. All of these games were over $39.99, some alot more. Also, something that burned me up with these types of games was the fact that they shipped while basicly unplayable. I mean, buggy as all get out. I understand that it is a tough business, and the publishers are often pushing to get the product out before the developer is ready. Still, 'tis bad bizniz if you ask me.

Again, that's what really attracted me to MM. They seemed to have a different approach. There's was an approach that left the greedy Publishers at the wayside.

The main reasons I even considered purchasing SEIV in the first place was because they were going alone. Then, what I loved about the product was their attention towards the Player base and the fact that their game was written to provide the players with almost total control.
The editability of the game is, as far as I know, unmatched by any game of this genre.

However, when I found they were charging for a tweaked Version of the game. Well, I almost felt they were pulling a fast one. I'm over it now, though, I gotta say, I'm a bit upset with Gamers Front.

I ordered the game the same day I posted this thread, actually, I ordered just before I posted.
That was on 21Aug03. I got the confirmation email, and it allowed me to track. Well, they didn't ship until Monday evening. WTF is up with that!? Now, I'll have to wait until Friday, the earliest to get the game. Likely it won't arrive until next week. That bothered me to no end. I had have a mind to cancel the order. However, I'll deal with it as it's the only way I can get a copy of the Gold. But, I'm not likely to order from them again.

It seems they got you by the em... Family Jewels.
Is there another place to order Shrapnel/MM games other then Gamers forum?

They don't ship very quickly and they charge waaaaayyy too much for S&H.

Well, aside from that, I did fire up the old standard Version. I didn't play with any mods, since I couldn't find any for standard, besides I thought I'd have my gold by now and didn't want to waste a whole lot of effort on the standard if it was going back on the shelf. Well, I did add a few extra levels of Ship Yard. But that's it.

All in all, I love the SE series, I purchased SEIII and SEIV, I'm hoping I like the gold. But, I am sorely disappointed in these latest developments, especially the shipping. Why on earth would people pay premium prices for games that won't ship on a timely basis when they can go down to the local Electronics boutique or Best buy and get a game right off the shelf and play that night?

<sighs> It's a love hate relationship when it comes to Computer Gaming.

The best games I've ever played and wish more could be like them... Fallout 1&2, Pirates (by microprose on the C64), Escape Velocity/EV Overdrive (on the Mac), ShadowRun (on the Genesis), MOO 1&2 (3 was just not right), The UFO: X-com series, Emperor of the Fading suns, and most of the games by Koei for the Nintendo/Super Nintendo consoles.

Most of the games are classics. I think the SE series could be and should be among them. But there are just certain things I'm picky about, money is one of them, mainly because I'm in such short supply. And the same holds true for time. Not shipping until almost five days after I placed the purchase is NOT a very good way to get me to shop again.

Bah.. let me quit beefin', I'm sure ya'll got better things to do then to listen to me gripe.

One Last thing, since I problably won't get my Gold till next week sometime, anyone around here able to point me towards some decent Standard Mods?

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

When I ordered mine I did so with Srap them selfs I did per order so The only wait I had was for the release date, I have not seen any SE games at any store in my area, I think the only way to get it is on line. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Know what you mean by getting burned for games that look good but are garbage, what I have done over the Last 3-4 yrs, before I buy the game I go to their web sight or one that supports the game if they have one, then go to their forums and read what the players say about the game... you learn a lot about the game before you buy it that way....

my 2 cents, just some ideas mac

Re: SEIV Standard (paid for) -VS- SEIV GOLD
 

Can't find mods for Classic?

This thread died prematurely, but does have a list started:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...=009752#000000