The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

I thought you'd all like this map...

http://www.projectrho.com/hstars.gif

Here is another one...
(Click here to see the full size Version of this one)

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newup...1062620213.gif

And the final one...

http://www.projectrho.com/map22ly.gif

[ September 03, 2003, 21:21: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Ops, LOL, i wanted some of your inputs...

A) will anyone make a 'real' local map based on these for se4?
B) what do we need to do to get real 3d starmaps for se4? (other than wait for se5) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
C) what do you all think of the real local stars around sol? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif i'm really kinda excited in one way... these are not all too far away...

hell, 5 or 10 LY can be done in 10 or 20 years with a half decent ion drive - going at .5 c speed is NOT that difficult for todays (or reasonably near term future) tech

so, its kinda exciting - i figure as soon as we get a decent fusion system going, we'll be off to the stars ... unmanned probes first of course... but with fusion engines, heck, there a LOT of stars within grasp

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

The closest 26 stars

i thought this might also help http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Cirvol, you might want to start with this map here: Se4 Map. {link} Previously posted by someone else.

I've often thought of making a real stellar map of our corner of the milky way.

I played this one, and kinda lost interest. That's not to say this map isn't cool, it just doesn't add much to the game, that's all. Try this one and see.

And, ummm... could you edit your post so the pictures are smaller?

[ September 01, 2003, 23:47: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

I love maps, the big one is beautiful. Sure gets the imagination going. So... Where there be monsters? or Pirates? The lines are "Worm Hole" routes right?

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Geee there went the window format http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif scroll right

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

ya, i know http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif sorry about that...

the big map really messes with the text of Messages... perhaps that should be fixed?

use left justification=D

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

I fixed it. Shrunk the image and put in a link to the original large size image.

[ September 03, 2003, 21:27: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Ahh... much better.

So anyways, I was once looking for a Sol neighborhood map. My plan was to write a scenario about several Groups from Earth leaving the solar system. They would encounter stars at the correct stellar distances, etc. I even went to some of the web pages Online and decided what to put in which system.

Now I personally ascribe to the theory that earth-like planets are extremely rare. Many people would disagree, but anyway. Most planets would be low mineral gas giants, small ice planets, and deadly tiny rock planets. Remote mining would be big.

Survival would be very difficult. The various Groups should start the game fairly well armed, but open warfare at the start would devastate both of them. The United Nations should claim the homesystem as a neutral race, and demand the expatriate Groups stay out.

At any rate, like I said before, the local neighborhood star map that was posted really doesn't add much to the standard rule set for SE4.

It's cool to play because the author added lots of very interesting odds and ends. But in the end it's just a somewhat sparse quadrant with some funkly distances between some of the systems.

I'm sure some similar parts have been randomly generated at some time by SE4's random quadrant generator.

[ September 03, 2003, 21:58: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

[On the big map] What are all those objects with names like "CD-28°302 -0:0:-14" and so on? Are they stars that don't have names? I thought Alpha Centauri was the closest star but there are several of these objects closer to Sol then Alpha Centauri. What are they?

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">IIRC, there are a few very dim red dwarf stars closer to us than Alpha Centauri. They have only been seen/discovered very recently, but are too dim to see without a very powerful telescope...preferably an infrared one.

Just a few bits of info...

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I still stand by my assertion : http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=23;t=008169
Traveling at such speed would require a nice-looking, aerodynamic designs. More like WhiteStars than EA destroyers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Would be very interested in a "realism" based Sol Centered galaxy for IV Gold.

He are some thoughts:

There's lots of water ice planetoids / comets in systems. In our system, beyond Pluto and in several other gravitationally stable points.

Mining low G comets and asteroids is a hell of a lot easier than high G planets (ie gravity wells).

Moon-Europa-Titan like natural sats are valuable. Earth is priceless. That is, if the Moon is "worth" $10, the Earth is worth $10^14th or something. Or put it another way, between the two, the ratio of all goods produced on Earth will always be significantly greater than the value of goods produced on the Moon. I doubt Lunar GDP will ever be 0.1% of Earth's.

Most planets tumble (their rotational axis moves radically over time) unless they are stablized in some fashion. Higher order evolution is more probable with stability. The Earth-Moon system is stablized, but is probably quite rare.

I personally am in the Fermi (where are they?) camp believing there are very very few intelligent species AND/OR very many practical barriers to interstellar travel/colonization. (Sorry, no worm holes!)

So I like the idea of scenarios which have single point of origin species radiating/conflicting outward. Inter-species contact would always mean "conquest" (in some sense) by the technologically superior, unless there is some sort of High number of species gallactic civilization where tech gets spread around.

I don't like colonization on high/low G planets (relative to your homeword) without very costly gravity tech, which still limits the economic value of these planets. Likewise I don't care for high value/ population colonization on planets without breathable atmospheres. Therefore, atmospheric/biospheric engineering tech and expense is critical to realism.

I'm ok with faster than C communication through some kind of quantum effects tech, but not the movement of living beings.

Most sci-fi is way too Malthusian. "Resources" are way too important to Communist Central Planning Technocrats and SciFi writers. The tech to manipulate Earth based mass and generate energy is far more probable/economically realistic than the tech to mine the universe. Once you get to anti-matter annihilation energy tech, the only thing you need in large quantities in deep space is any kind of mass to excellerate out the back of your ship.

The goal of any realistic inter-stellar space travel is:

#1 find/colonize Earth like planets
#2 find others
#3 conduct xeno-archeology (if past dead civilization are found).
#4 build infastructure to extend your reach further out.
#5 find planets that can be engineered into Earth like planets

I hate sci-fi weapons. The idea of firing no/low yield cannon ball like objects drives me nuts. A 1950's tactical nuke projectile does more damage than a Star Trek ship-ship weapon. If I literally hit you with any object, other than you running at high V into my "sand" mine field, you're dead.

But that's my 2 cents. Good luck on your project!

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seen Proportions?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hence, asteroids have a much higher resource percentage than planets.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Probably true, but that doesn't do much for a space exploration game, does it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You sort of get that in SEIV in that you get a much lower number of facility slots on planets with a different atmosphere. Yeah, gravity probably ought to play a role as well, but you gotta draw the line between realism and playability somewhere (somebody should have told the MOO3 designers that...)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The "resource exploitation/guns-or-butter" model of strategy gaming has been with us for ages, and probably will stay that way - if only for competitive game mechanics.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, SEIV comes pretty close to this, in most respects... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Indeed. Look what a little chunk of ice did to the Space Shuttle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif If anything, most sci-fi weaponry is too complex. Why waste time and energy hauling a huge laser into space when a pea-shooter (literally!) will yield the same results?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you're out of the bLast radius too...

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The bLast radius of a Nuke is so large because the bLasted chunks of uranium/plutonium/etc. moving at incredible cause fission in all of the molecules around the detonation point that they run into, which then cause more fission and so on. There is less and less of it as you move away, but the chain reaction is what makes it so large. In space, the explosion would be very small in comparison. Not less deadly at the bLast point though, just a much smaller area of effect.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Fyron..there's a bit of a problem with that explanation. Namely, air is mostly nitrogen. If you split nitrogen, you get a net LOSS of energy. IIRC you have to have an element above iron before fission starts giving energy back; anything else is just too stable.

Now, if the bLast caused -fusion- in the surroundings..yeah, I could maybe buy that.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Oh... perhaps it was fusion and not fission. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Or maybe a little of both. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Either way there is a chain reaction that magnifies the explosive energy.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Well, there's a chain reaction in the uranium itself, if that's what you were thinking of..

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

No, I am talking about after the urnanium is done fissing (fissioning?). The particles ejected cause intense reactions with those in the atmosphere, thus intensifying the shockwave of the explosion.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Its fissioning, and the only thing I've heard that is anywhere similar to what you're talking about is fallout. Or maybe the overpressure and bLast waves.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The bLast radius of a nuke is so large because the bLasted chunks of uranium/plutonium/etc. moving at incredible cause fission in all of the molecules around the detonation point that they run into, which then cause more fission and so on. There is less and less of it as you move away, but the chain reaction is what makes it so large. In space, the explosion would be very small in comparison. Not less deadly at the bLast point though, just a much smaller area of effect.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Almost any element you pick won't undergo fission or fusion, even if you manage to nail it with subatomic particles or other atoms.

All the neutrons flying around will hit other atoms in the atmosphere, but they won't fission. They'll just become radioactive, and spit out beta (electrons, positrons), and alpha particles (He4 nuclei) a bunch of times until they become stable. Relatively little energy is released that way, and it isn't released fast enough to help the shockwave.
The shockwave isn't radioactive (its simply the pressure front - sonic boom style), its the neutron irradiated garbage thrown up in the air by the bLast, and the direct byproducts of the uranium scattered out.

Notes:
- Don't worry about the elements with short half-lives. They'll be at undetectable levels in mere minutes.
- Don't worry about the elements with long half-lives. They'll emit hardly any radiation. U235 for example (700 million years).
- Do worry about the stuff that Lasts for countable numbers of years, and the stuff that collects inside you. It's radioactive enough to be of concern, and remains dangerous for your lifetime.
- Don't worry about low dosages. Denver, Colorado gets 1000 mRem per year from natural sources. Radiation sickness dosen't show up until about 50,000 mRem in a single dose. Even your coffee is radioactive and puts out over 400 Bq/kg, which would make it nuclear
- The NRC's annual public dosage limit for artificial sources is 1/4 of the average naturally occuring dose.
- Coffee has a natural radioactivity of over 400 Bq/Kg. Some regulations
And, most important:
- Do not start nuclear wars; its bad for your health.

[ September 09, 2003, 05:33: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">in which case, it's fissioning.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

lol, suicide junkie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif amazing stats there

thanks

as far as the stars that 'appear' closer... its due to the frame of reference that was chosen for the map... those ones that look closer are really further away, but in the depth field

proxima centauri is the closest star to sol http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Technically, you are incorrect about fission: if atom absorbs neutron and then emits alpha-particle, it IS a fission, the products would be He4 and another stable nucleus.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

I have never been sure whether Alpha Centauri or Proxima Centauri is closer, because I have heard both.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Go look for a real star map. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~dolan/con...a/nearest.html

this pretty clearly shows that proxima centauri is closest... just like i said http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

Thanks! Oh, I see... Proxima Centauri is 4.2 light years away, and Alpha Centauri, which is a binary star, is 4.3 light years away...

The question is, which one does Centauri Prime orbit around? ... OK, it seems that it's neither. Centauri Prime is the third planet orbiting the star Centauris, which is about 70 light years away from Sol.

The inventor of the warp drive is Zephram Cochrane but is he from Alpha Centauri, or is he from Earth...this must be one of those Star Trek inconsistencies.

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

you mean like the 'enterprise' 'romul' i mean 'vulcan's'?

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Isn't the Centauri system wich includes Alpha Centauri a trinary?

PS Zephram Cochrane is from Alpha Centauri. Don't listen to all the non cannon BS that came from TNG and later. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: The REAL milky way galaxy map - sol @ centre ;)
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't understand why everyone get's so hung up on this one. Cochrane was from Earth originally. He was born in rural England and his lifes ambition was to be a nobody and live a simple uncomplicated life. Thus he became a farmer. Unfortunatly for him fate had another idea and into his life came a runt of a talking pig which he won at a county fair. This brought him more notarity then he ever wanted so he sold the pig and and moved to rural Montana. Unfortunatly his reputation preceeded him even there. Deciding that there was nowhere on earth he could go to avoid "Hey, aren't you the talking pig guy?" he worked hard to invent the Warp Drive. After doing so he moved to Alpha Centauri and lived there for many years. Hence the history books description of him being "of Alpha Centauri". Unfotunatly, even though noone on his new planet had ever heard of the talking pig thing, being the inventor of Warp Drive was just as bad. So finally he flew off into deep space, presumably to his death. Only he didn't die. He hooked up with an floating cloud alien who gave him eternal life on a barren planetoid where he met Kirk and Spock a century later.