Enterprise on VHS
 

It had not occured to me that Enterprise would already be out on VHS, but it is. http://www.blackstar.co.uk/video/item/7000000070321

I have not yet checked Amazon to if they sell it yet, but if they oh boy. :|

The series is ok, better than Voyager was, but for some reason it just seems dule. Good acting, but just dule. Why is that?

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

maybe because you have seen most of the stories in the previous shows.

I really wish that they would take the star trek series and make many many complex story arcs. The 40 minute story does not cut it any more. They are rather boring. Now if a story streched for 5 years ( and all the sub plots ) Look at soaps THey have stories that go on for 20 years. Why does the sci-fi fan have to suffer. Were geeks , nerds, and intelligent. Why not a series that reflects the audience who watches these shows.

Not only do you see it from the federation point of view but from the other empires point of view. ANd the story evolves

Sure it would be complex sure you would have to watch every show. But it would be enjoyable. It is what star trek lacks.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*cough, cough* B5 *cough, cough*

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

This new story arc they are on I just don't buy at all. I mean its lame, its a rip off of Starblazers/and that B5 spin off.

There was nothing to draw me into the story at all. A one hour premier????? Oh come on!

The Space Soldiers to the rescue. I have nothing vested in these guys, and I know from week to week they are just going to hire some extras to play them.

I once read an article about voyager where someone had gone through and counted all the differant crew memebers seen over the 7 years of the show and the total was like somewhere near 300. The ship only had a crew of about 150 people.

I agree that continuity and long, deeply involving story lines are the best bet for a show now a days. Just look at 24.

The show is boring, dule, lack luster, uninteresting, slow, predictable, sleeply, etc.

And the obvious sex ploys to get male views is so ****ing irratating that its insulting at best. I mean sure T'Pal, as a character is an attractive one, but focusing on her as a sex object is just a sell out and a true misuse of the character in general.

They dumped the seven of nine character into Voyager because the Kes character was not hot enough. Because that worked, and it drew in the 14 to 36 year old male viewers, they tried it again. (Um Jerry Ryan is married to Brandon Braga so all you guys out there that want to impress her with your Trek knowledge and your basement apartment in mommies house should just get a real place of your own and move on.)

The major problem with Enterprise is that the producers don't think we are smart enough to warrent intelligent shows. This was evident in Voyager.

DS9, although dull for the first three years, really hit its stride with the Dominion War. DS9 was very character driven with brillant performances and excellent presentation of drama and action.

Enterprise is well acted, semi well written, but lacks mojo. I am not concerned about the characters, the ship, which I think looks ugly, or the story lines.

Like with Voyager, Enterprise will go for the cheep Ratings, and seldom possess the gripping story lines needed to make it a bonafide hit.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

I think the big problem with Trek is general is that they try to get everything back to the status quo at the end of every story. If they were just willing to make big, sweeping and permanant changes to things, then stories would be a lot more meaningful and interesting.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

Hence B5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

what i want to see is a science fiction show that tries to stay as close to real science as possible. i wouldn't object to some sort of work-around for ftl, as long as it could be justified that it's 'possible', but i want to see: near C weapons, no 'magic' shield's, if there there i want a good science explantion, acceleration, deceleration, no ships tilting to turn and sliding in fighter fights. i want magnetic cannons and anti-proton's.

if your going to make up the science for a show, i don't object as long as you acknowledge that you made it up. but i would like to see something mostly realistic for a change.

see, the network's objection seems to me that nobody would understand all this complex science stuff, but nobody understands how phasers work and at least with real science there's something to understand. and the people who don't understand can still watch the original storylines, the realistic characters and the original plot.

ah, well, i can always read a book. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

Hence, B5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

well, i'm not sure about some of the science. it was a semi-mystical show. in one show, i'm told, though, the fighter's did slide. and the ships did have ion cannons, which, although i don't remember the explantion, i'm pretty sure there scientific.

but, storylines plot and characters, oh my.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

Most of the tech in B5 is realistically plausible (save jump gates and hyperspace stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). There are deviations ofc, but those are a minimum (esp. for the non-Ancient races).

And they very often did sliding and such in fighters.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

never really looked into it. and it was half mystical. no psionics in my show. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 14, 2003, 04:06: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

B5 is based a lot on the LOTR books. I think that is where most of the stories came from.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

how so?

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The ancient war between light and darkness. The passing-of-the-torch from the older (and ancient) races of power to the younger upstarts (man included). The Faustian teptation of true power and the struggle against its price. Epic wars wherein the fates of entire races hang in the balance. The betrayal of comrades and their possible redemption. You could make a lot of parallels.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree. The semi-mystical (souls, First Ones going off into another reality etc.) stuff is a real turn off for me.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree. The semi-mystical (souls, First Ones going off into another reality etc.) stuff is a real turn off for me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And how about Q in STNG, or Bajoran gods ?
ST has as much psionics as B5 - Dianna Troy for example. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

The First Ones did not go off into another reality, they just left the galaxy. There is a huge difference, and nothing mystical about it.

A lot of stories have parallels with LOTR because it incorporates a lot of common themes... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif In fact, I think all of these things you mention Tolkien got the ideas for from various mythologies originally. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ September 14, 2003, 09:44: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

And then there are the Rangers... I guess the Minbari read Tolkien

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I beg to differ. Sure the 40 minute show may not cut it anymore but that's just due to bad writing. I do not want to see a show that that is in essence a 20 part mini-series. Miss one or 2 and you don't know what's going on. This would be even more confused by the fact that almost all the shows I've seen recently go with 3 or 4 new episodes then 2 or 3 repeats for the whole season. I want a start and and end in 1 hour.

As far as T'Pol as a sex object that someone else mentioned. Hey some of us like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif If you want a deep meaningfull story turn off the TV and get a book. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like Kes way more than Seven of Nine. Kes was sweet, gentle, and pretty. It's too bad that they didn't do very much with that character in the show. Seven of Nine has a nice body, but being a Borg, she is cold, unemotional and speaks in a monotonous voice. Also I find Kes' face more attractive - very nice smile.

As for B5, I like Lyta Alexander. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif She's the best!

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I beg to differ. Sure the 40 minute show may not cut it anymore but that's just due to bad writing. I do not want to see a show that that is in essence a 20 part mini-series. Miss one or 2 and you don't know what's going on. This would be even more confused by the fact that almost all the shows I've seen recently go with 3 or 4 new episodes then 2 or 3 repeats for the whole season. I want a start and and end in 1 hour.

As far as T'Pol as a sex object that someone else mentioned. Hey some of us like that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif If you want a deep meaningfull story turn off the TV and get a book. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">B5 actually works quite well when viewing semi-random episodes. Pick them from the same half of a season, and avoid the occasional "major turning point" episodes.
Still best to see all in a row of course.
All you need is to have two days a week, where you re-show Last week's episode for those who missed it.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*Shrug*

One could put it down to different tastes, but IMHO since each Trek series has dealt with either a specific ship or a space station, then it makes more sense story-wise that things should be more mini-series like instead of episodic like.

If want you want is a story that begins and ends in an hour, then it would make more sense not to restrict oneself to a specific ship or space station.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

the psionics wheren't a turn-off, i was classifying. it makes it less scientific, so none of that in the scientific show.

and like Fyron said, those themes aren't enough to say it's based off of lotr, however, i would be suprised if the writers havn't read it. on the other hand, i'd be suprised if someone with an interest in mythilogical fiction hadn't read it. and the ranger's...ranger's, in fantasy, in my mind, came right out of tolkien's work...this, despite the fact that, as far as i know, which isn't farther than reading lotr, the hobbit and the one i can't spell right now that starts with an s, he never really defined ranger. maybe he did somewhere else?

i babbled.

[ September 15, 2003, 08:39: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

Actually, there are quite a few plausible scientific theories that could explain telepathy; assuming it existed, of course. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

there is no scientific proof that i know of. and the psionics on b5 wouldn't fit into those scientific theories. for one thing, telepathic range would probably be only a few miles without boosting equipment.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

I liked the tech levels in Bab5 and found it mostly plausbile, except for all that psychic stuff, and all the time travel. Reading brain waves can currently be done by extremely specialised machines (and even then not at any great range or detail of interpretation). Imho it could conceivably be done at a similar level by aliens, but never by unmodded humans.

When I write scifi outside of the se universe, there will be no time travel and no psychics.

I also thought the B5 fighters moved quite convincingly, on the whole, like the way they'd rotate 180 degrees to slow down or reverse course.

--
"Bed good. World bad."
-Me, getting up this morning.

[ September 15, 2003, 11:19: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

Keep in mind that the human telepaths (as well as those of most races) were genetically modified by the Vorlons to have the ability to use telepathy. Also, the telepathy was certainly limited in range, never more than a few miles (and that was only with devices capable of enhancing the telepath's abilities).

Narf, look a bit harder to find some plausible scientific explanations for telepathy then. They are out there, somewhere. I did not say "proof", as that implies that telepathy actually exists. I said plausible explanations of how it could exist. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ September 15, 2003, 18:10: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

didn't one of the psychics turn into an unltimate weapon at the end?

anyway, i'm excluding it because there isn't proof; if it was included, it would be done scientifically; i hadn't actually thought much about the possibility when i first excluded it.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

So you are not going to spend a few minutes looking for the possible scientific explanations of telepathy? There are some good ones out there...

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

no, not really. 'electro-magnetic waves can interact' pretty much sums up everything scientific i've ever heard. and, as far as i know, the human brain doesn't have the nessasary telepathic lobe to decode other peoples thoughts, nessasary because other people don't think the same.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And who is talking here ? Genetically Modified Mouse who is more intelligent than the vast majority of my biological <inset the word> ?
Telepathy looks even more plausiable now ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

oleg got point.

right on top of head. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

So... if humans were modified to be able to do that stuff, it might be possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Or if you had aliens... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

[quote]Originally posted by deccan:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yea, BUT what if the Ancients had HUGE Knockers, wouldnt you be interested then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif sorry, couldnt help myself.

[ September 15, 2003, 23:49: Message edited by: Narrew ]

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

well, I was sad to see B5 go, I had hoped that Crusade would stick around, I liked the Techno Wizards.

I am open to alot of Sci-fi, I am really hooked on Stargate, and you know, they dont seem to sex up stuff, though I admit the Gauld and Tokra women look hott in them outfits, but the human team is subdued, there is the thing between Carter and O'Neill, but rarely talked about. But it is winding down.

I also liked John Doe (not sci-fi but still) but they cancled it *bastards* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

they cancelled john doe? if they where here, i'd hit them.

did i mention that i weigh over 200 pounds?

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

Are there possible scientific explainations for other psychic abilities like telekinesis, levitation, foretelling the future, remote viewing, etc?

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

Telekinesis generally works the same way as telepathy, just with a lot more energy. The rest of it is very tough to even begin trying to explain. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (ofc, it is still all pure fantasy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

You guys should play System Shock 2. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

in which case, telekinisis shouldn't move non-ferious materials.

except i heard of one experiment where they managed to move a frog with a really large magnet. i'm kinda doubtfull, because it's seems that that amount of electro-magnetism should have done some bad things to the frog's brain. can anybody else confirm/deny this?

system shock 2? why? *wander's off to take a look at it and the demo*

ran into a review. don't like horror.

[ September 16, 2003, 18:18: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

yes Narf, I was searching on the net for when the next season would start and came across "Save John Doe" ect... is sad, especially after the season ending cliff hanger

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nucler Magnetic Resonance (NMR) of biomolecules is what I do for living. So far, my brain is perfectly fine, fin. fi. f... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">My psychology professor is somewhat of an expert in the paranormal. He usually gets called in to check out alien abductions, hauntings, and such. He has also done extensive research into various psi phenomena. One of the most interesting projects was when he invited a man named Ingo Swann (for those who don't know, Ingo is a remote viewer who gained much fame back in the seventies, and claims that he has been training operatives in the CIA to remote view for the past 20 years) to the university to do some testing. The data was quite amazing. The various remote viewing excercises were disturbingly acurate, and in some cases his perceptions seemed to go beyond strict remote viewing. Like I said, the data (not just anecdotes and such) was quite amazing.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, telekinesis tends to affect objects in much the same way as electricity. Conductors (such as metals) tend to heat up, while non-conductors (such as wood) tend to move around. The energy output seems to be constant, whereas small objects move fast and large objects move slow. Telekinesis is 5x more likely to be expressed be women than men (and even then usually centered around the teen years), and is primarily displayed in a cone emanating from the back of the head. Also, telekinesis can be differentiated from haunting phenomena by the fact that it is not accompanied by a fear response.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually they seem to work quite differently. And if you don't know how telepathy works why are you claiming that telekinesis works the same way?

Also, most psychics seem to be temporal lobe epileptics. Perhaps it is the abnormal brain activity that allows them to do such interesting things. Perhaps the abnormal brain activity is a side-effect of what they can do. Such things have not yet been determined.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

QR, telepathy and telekinesis and all of that stuff do not work in reality... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I know how telepathy could work, if it was more than fiction.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nucler Magnetic Resonance (NMR) of biomolecules is what I do for living. So far, my brain is perfectly fine, fin. fi. f... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ahh, almost a collegue. I do some MRT, have read some about NMR when studying. Will go to the canary Isles in january for another course on MR, will be fun!

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And I am telling you that some people are capable of actions that are considered to be within the scope of what most consider to be telepathy, telekinesis, and such. I have seen the hard data.

Now perhaps your viewpoint is based upon a poor definition of such abilities. If you define telepathy as the ability to look into someone elses head and scroll through their memories like a big vcr (or take over their mind, using them like a meat-puppet), or telekinesis as the ability to levitate cars merely with the power of ones mind, then, yes, you are right, within that limited paradigm such things would not work in this reality. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, our actual reality is a little bit more complex (and subtle) than that of a comic book. Strange things in this reality tend not to be as flashy as you might like (though even here they can be pretty spectacular). Just because they don't quite live up to our adolescent fantasies doesnt mean that they don't exist. We should try to keep disappointment from clouding our judjement.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It might not work now or be considered a scifi exclusive thing, but evolution can never be ruled out.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And I am telling you that some people are capable of actions that are considered to be within the scope of what most consider to be telepathy, telekinesis, and such. I have seen the hard data.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I recently read an article that said the same thing. (ie that hard data exists) It revolved around a test were subjects were shown one of 4 cards with pics on them and another person in a separate room would say what they wwere. I think the test showed that people on average got like 33% right as opposed to the expected 25%. This was claimed to be "statistically relevant" It just made think "who the heck decided what 'statistically relevant' means. Also could it not also just prove something totally different? ie some people are just lucky. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

'Course the reason most people are skeptical about telepathy is like you say, how they define it. I would think telepathy would be commonly thought of as being able to read ones mind fairly reliably not just geting slightly higher that average while predicting one of 4 pictures.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Some musty old guys. They did it around the same time that they were hammering out the scientific method. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is some evidence that the most basic level of psi is the manipulation of probability. Luck, if consitent enough, could itself be a manifestation of psi. And when you look at most studies of the wierder aspects of human capability these usually take luck into account. These aren't averaged on 5 or 10 tests where luck could have a substantial effect. These results are averaged over hundreds of tests. If you can keep lady luck on your side that long, well... I think that in itself would qualify as an example of the paranormal.

Re: Enterprise on VHS
 

Where did adolescent fantasies come into this? That is fairly insulting.