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deadly conditions.
I have a planet with Unpleasant conditions. Random event that decrease planet conditions happens there. According to events.txt file, conditions change by -20 (AIC game). OK, I have Nature shrine III in the system. +3 per year. How much would it take to restore conditions ? 20/3~7 years ? I waited 200 turns (20 years) - it is still deadly !!! Other planets went all the way to good/optimal, so NS works.
But what is wrong with that planet ??? [ September 13, 2003, 14:33: Message edited by: oleg ] |
Re: deadly conditions.
It seems like you cannot improve the conditions of a Deadly planet. (I just tried to do so myself, nothing after a few hundred turns) My race was even Impressive in Environmental Resistance, but that didn't do anything at all. (Reproduction is still 0% )
Second test, this time with a race focused on Reproduction. (150% Environmental Resistance, 130% Reproduction and 150% Happiness) The reproduction on this planet is no less than 32%, but the conditions are still deadly after 300 turns. (Thanks to the book holding the F12 key) It would make sense after all, do you imagine being able to transform a planet where you can barely live at all into a paradise? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif [ September 13, 2003, 14:48: Message edited by: Alneyan ] |
Re: deadly conditions.
Note that the conditions improvement plants only kick in on every 10th turn. (turns ending in 24XX.0)
Given 300 turns though, and a CI 3 plant, the planet would have improved by +90% Were you running a finite resources game, perhaps? For finite resources the value improvement plants multiply with the value, rather than add. Conditions improvement may do the same thing, and as we all know, zero times anything leaves you with zero http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif PS: They do stack fully, so building 5 CI 3 plants on a planet makes conditions improve by 15% per year. |
Re: deadly conditions.
Suicide Junkie, both my tests were made in a regular game, with the stock game, but it is the same in AIC and TDM so I gather it applies to every mod. Perhaps you need an even longer period of time? But that would seem unlikely.
I will try to see what happens after a few thousand turns. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (With a book holding the magic key obviously) I was myself using the CI3 facilities, and Oleg tried the Nature Shrines, which are usually working quite fast (a few years). |
Re: deadly conditions.
Conditions are stored as a variable ranging from 0.00 to 1.50. Conditions improving facilities improve by .01-.03. So, after 200 turns, it should have improved by .60. IIRC, the lowest threshhold for Unpleasant is .70, so dropping by 20 should have made it .50, and 200 turns should have brought it to 1.10, which is Mild IIRC.
Are you certain there is no other event with the same label and such that could have dropped it by more than 20 (.20)? If the conditions dropped to 0, they would have to be raised by around 70 to hit unpleasant again (I think that is the lowest for unpleasant, though I am not certain). |
Re: deadly conditions.
Fyron, I used a Deadly planet made thanks to the editor for my own test. Could it change the outcome? I will try with a starting condition as low as possible, but other than 0.0, perhaps you cannot increase this variable if it reaches 0.0?
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Re: deadly conditions.
true, if the conditions were indeed 0 the improvement plant will not help. The plant multiplies 1.03 with the current value, not adding 0.03.
So, 0*1.03^20 is still 0. Rollo [ September 13, 2003, 18:05: Message edited by: Rollo ] |
Re: deadly conditions.
You are indeed right Rollo, I tried with a value of 0.1 and more than 400 turns later, I managed to have conditions of Harsh. Way too long to be worth it obviously. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I will now be trying to see what happens with 0.0 after a *very* long period of time. (Even if it should remain 0, no matter how many years go by, perhaps there is another factor helping such planets?)
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Re: deadly conditions.
Umm... are you sure it multiplies? I could have sworn it adds... must test this again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
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Re: deadly conditions.
No, contrary to what Rello thought (and his idea seemed to be reasonnable), it does not multiply as I was able to go to 0.0 to Harsh condition in 39 years (or perhaps slightly less). The evolution is *very* slow though from Deadly to Harsh, much slower than from Mild to the best for instance, but don't ask me why. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
So you have to wait for another 20 years Oleg before having the pleasure to see the transformations of your planet, or you could build ten CI plants. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (My tests have been done with a level 3 CI, so you could speed up the process a bit) |
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Re: deadly conditions.
Oh, dear :0
I' have to forfeit this game then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif That killer event occured on my HomeWorld, and it is the not-connected AIC game against low bonused AI... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Anyway, what is the correct formulae for condition changes ? I am 100% certain it was only -20 change. JLS, may be you should reconsider events.txt settings ? |
Re: deadly conditions.
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Re: deadly conditions.
Nope. VIP adds, not multiplies. This I am certain of (a dozen PBW games of watching them add directly can't be wrong). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
[ September 13, 2003, 19:29: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
Re: deadly conditions.
Yes, Fyron is right on this one, a VIP on a planet with 0/0/0 and another on a planet with 180/180/180 are as effective, they both add +3% each year to each ressource.
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Re: deadly conditions.
VIP add in the standard game, they do multiply in a finite resource game though. In that case if you allow the planet to get to zero there is no way to bring it back.
[ September 13, 2003, 20:11: Message edited by: geoschmo ] |
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Re: deadly conditions.
If you destroy the deadly planet and then rebuild a new planet, will the conditions still be deadly?
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Oleg, I really don,t want to give you a hard time but the AIC v3.02 Events.txt file does not have any “According to events.txt file, conditions change by -20 “ AIC only has a –5 low and a minus –10 med AIC also has an event that will actually improve your planet +10 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I don,t know were you get your information and why you post this misinformation http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif |
Re: deadly conditions.
It was with latest AIC file. 4.01 I think.
Medium event has -20, low has -10 effect. Here is the file: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/newup...1062772445.txt BTW, are you sure you are looking on "planet -conditions change" and not "planet - value change" ? I NEVER EVER distribute disinformation ! I might make mistakes sometimes, sure, but who don't ? [ September 17, 2003, 14:18: Message edited by: oleg ] |
Re: deadly conditions.
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Hello, AIC is -5 low and -10 med not -20. anybody can check this - stop causing trouble Oleg http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif 1: What does AI bonus have to do with anything 2: You are telling me your home world was hit by the event and it went to zero? 3: What does the Home world start at usefully, unlikely it was 10 because then wouldn’t you have started with it harsh or deadly? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif 4: None of us ever have started any game with a harsh Home Word. 5: Oleg, why are you posting this nonsense? [ September 17, 2003, 14:26: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ] |
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EVENTS DATA FILE ~ AIC ~ 4.beta 1 6: Why did you post your this so called result here and not email JLS? 7: Why did you state it was AIC and not some beta file that gave you a problem? 8: Are you now saying still - your HW started at 20 harsh or deadly? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif [ September 17, 2003, 14:38: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ] |
Re: deadly conditions.
Well, may be I really should e-mail it to JLS instead of posting here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
I just wanted to make sure AIC 4.01 will be OK http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif --- My planet was Unpleasnt before event and become Deadly after event. I was unable to recover it even to Harsh after 200 turns. That's all what I wrote. Actually, -20 turn even Good planet to Deadly http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif and -10 turn Good to Harsh. |
Re: deadly conditions.
After a quick test, yes the influence of this value is quite strange. A planet can drop to Deadly if it was Unpleasant with a -20 event, or perhaps even less. And yes, such events can occur in your homeworld, even if it isn't common.
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[ September 17, 2003, 15:12: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ] |
Re: deadly conditions.
And here are the values for the different conditions of the planets. (I only run tests with 0.1 , 0.2 and so on, I'm not sure if there is a difference between say 0.26 and 0.29. I suppose it is the same since the value is between "0.0 and 1.5" according to the editor)
0.0-0.2: Deadly 0.3-0.4: Harsh 0.5-0.9: Unpleasant 1.0-1.2: Mild 1.3-1.4: Good 1.5: Optimal So, a world couldn't drop from Unpleasant to Deadly with a -20 event, if this value was an actual -0.2 I am now trying to see what happens with Good and Optimal homeworlds with the same event. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Even an Optimal planet drops to Deadly after such an event. Now testing with other values such as -10 and -5. *Is quite puzzled* [ September 17, 2003, 15:09: Message edited by: Alneyan ] |
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A matter a fact wasn’t it you Oleg, that talked us all into changing the Event file and JLS from the the proven default AIC 3.02 file to this 4.0x BETA in the first place. It must have slip your mind when you did not post that it was only the Beta .01 Events file that had the problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif ================================================== EVENTS DATA FILE ~ AIC ~ 4.beta 1 ================================================== AI Campaign Modeled by John Sullivan 2-21-2003 With Olegs, Regimented Events to maintain Severity integrity ================================================== *BEGIN* ================================================== BTW, did your HW start with good conditions, or is it now unpleasent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif [ September 17, 2003, 15:46: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ] |
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Re: deadly conditions.
Hey ! I just past 2000 Posts mark !! New millenium http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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In the attachments from his email dated Last Friday 9/12/2003. 4.03 events BETA file the planet condition events are now only two and that is at se4 default -5 low with a +10 good event in high http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif 3.02 was -5 -10 and +10. I guess JLS knew about this condition already. In his note he says –10 event may be to tough and that +10 event to PC will often bring the planet up to optimal. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Would like to chat but back to work I must http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [ September 17, 2003, 16:54: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ] |
Re: deadly conditions.
Thanks for clarifying the situation then GLV. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Yes, -20 would be too harsh, and even -10 is rather strong. (You won't want this event to target your homeworld) So, I guess it settles this problem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (Now, let's try to understand how the conditions improvements facilities are working heh)
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Re: deadly conditions.
Running a test... after 2 cycles, a 1.40 planet is still good. If it multiplied, after one cycle you'd get:
1.40 * 1.03 = 1.442 1.442 * 1.03 = 1.48526 1.48526 * 1.03 = 1.5298... So... it should get to Optimal in 3 cycles if it multiplies, or 4 cycles if it adds. ROFLMAO! Turn 2404.6: Plasma instability detected in Ahnalt star! Admittedly, there are only 2 systems, one for my planets and the other for neutrals. But, this at least proves that star destroying events don't absolutely favor non-human systems. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Here is my result file: Conditions Test.txt It took only 3 cycles for planet 1.40 to hit Optimal, suggesting that it multiplies. Lets look at planet 1.20. It starts at Mild, and needs to hit 1.30 to be Good. If we assume it adds, you have: 2401.1: 1.20 Mild 2402.1: 1.23 Mild 2403.1: 1.26 Mild 2404.1: 1.29 Mild 2405.1: 1.32 Good 40 turns to get Good. If we assume it multiplies, you have: 2401.1: 1.20 Mild 2402.1: 1.236 Mild 2403.1: 1.27308 Mild 2404.1: 1.3112724 Good 2405.1: 1.33506105722 Good 30 turns to get Good. From my results, we have planet 1.20 becoming Good on turn 2404.1. This, combined with planet 1.40, strongly suggest that Conditions modifying facility abilities do indeed multiply instead of add. [ September 17, 2003, 22:56: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
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[ September 18, 2003, 03:59: Message edited by: JLS ] |
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