different types of sensors
 

Is there any cumulative effect among the different types of sensors, or do I need to equip a ship with the best I have of each different type? What I mean is, do gravitic sensors include the functions of tachyon and/or combat sensors? If not, then what is it that gravitic sensors do?

SpaceBadger

Re: different types of sensors
 

They are all identical (in normal game, some mods change this). You need just one, with the highest ranking.

Re: different types of sensors
 

That's a relief. I was beginning to wonder how many different kinds of sensors I was going to have to pack into my newer ships as I moved up the research line on sensors.

So tachyon sensors will give me the combat bonus of my best combat sensors? I wish they would have mentioned that in the description when I researched them.

What is it that gravitic sensors do that tachyon sensors don't already do? The description when you research them says something about picking up minor gravitic fluctuations, but doesn't give any hints as to what this means in game.

Thanks for all your help, Oleg.

SpaceBadger

Re: different types of sensors
 

The descriptions are just there to give it a more I am in the game feel. They don't mean anything in most cases (cept for some mods).

If you have one type of sensor then it will do everything the other types do. None of the sensors give combat advantages. All they do is detect ships hidden in Nebulae systems (higher levels) and detect cloaked or activated stealth armor ships.

The different types are put in there so that people with different research ques can all still get sensors without forcing everyone down the same research path. So while one persons research makes getting Hyper Optics better than Tachyon Scanners another may be better off with the Tachyons or Gravitic Sensors. Or if you take Psychic or Temporal race trait you will almost certainly have Temporal or Psychic scanners first.

So in closing, the multiple types all do the same thing and are only available as options for people with different play styles so no one play style is seriously disadvantaged in the sensor department.

Re: different types of sensors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hold your horses there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

There are 2 distinctly different kind of sensors:
- Combat sensors gives combat bonuses.
- The scanner type (tachyon, Gravic and some racials) just scans for cloacked ships.

While every ship should have a combat sensor (or the Talisman), you only need one scanner-type sensor pr system (or fleet if you are on the attack). For your own systems, a satellite are a very good and cheap carrier for the sensor.

BTW: Remember to launch the spy satellites. I've had enemy fleets going undetected through my systems because I've forgot to launch my spies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: different types of sensors
 

Well, in the research box I see two different branches: Sensors and Scanners.

The first 3 levels of Sensors are combat sensors that are supposed to make my attack more accurate. The 4th level of Sensors is tachyon sensor to spot cloaked ships. After a few levels of improved tachyon sensors, I get gravitic sensors, which if I understand here correctly is just another improvement for spotting cloaked ships, like a better tachyon sensor under a different name?

Then the Scanners tech branch seems to be something different entirely, first some tech to see what components other ships have on them, then some jammers to counteract the foregoing.

So, if I understand what primitive is saying, you need to keep the first type of sensor (your best combat sensor) on each ship, plus have one of the best type of either tachyon or gravitic somewhere within each system (or with each outsystem fleet) to spot cloaked ships. Is that it?

Cyrien, I'm not sure I get what you're saying about different playstyles - since you have to research up through all of the tachyon sensors before you get to the gravitic sensors, I hope they are some improvement, not just an alternative to the same thing. Or are there some other tech paths that let you get gravitic without first getting tachyon? Do the Temporal or Psychic races get different paths to the same end?

Confused SpaceBadger

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: different types of sensors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It would be less confusing if MM used different names for combat sensors and cloak-spoting sensors.

Re: different types of sensors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Absolutely correct. Gravitic and Tachion sensors come from researching different fields. One is not improving over another !

Re: different types of sensors
 

I'm curious about this too. In one of my PBW games i've built a Light Cruiser armed with all the available Sensors & Scanners (max levels) to scout out enemy actvity.

Was outfitting this ship a waste of space? Also, do Scanners/Sensors work while Cloaked, or do I need to de-cloak my sneak-ship? I'm sure this is spelled out in the Newbie Faq, but since i'm here anyways...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: different types of sensors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, but don't forget Hyper Optics, which is cheaper to research than tachyon or gravitic sensors (Advanced Military Science level 4-6).
Psychic and Temporal have pretty cheap (researchwise) sensors also.

Re: different types of sensors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That would be a perfect super-spy ship for James Bond http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: different types of sensors
 

You can always try P&N PBW, which has separate and distinct needs for all the scanner types. Of course, the AI can not handle this well, which is the main reason why all scanners are the same in stock SE4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: different types of sensors
 

I just had an idea to look in components.txt to see what abilities are listed for all of this stuff. Here is what I found out:

Combat Sensors (first 3 levels of the Sensors research path) add to your attack probability. None of the other sensors have this ability, so you always need to have your best combat sensors on board to get the best attack bonus.

Tachyon Sensors give Active EM scanning ability (3 levels).

Hyper-Optics give Passive EM scanning ability (3 levels).

Gravitic Sensors, Psychic Receptors, and Temporal Sensors all give the respective scanning abilities, 3 levels each.

Cloaking Devices prevent scanning by all of the above, at 3 ability levels.

So, bottom line is that Tachyon, Hyper-Optic, Gravitic, Psychic and Temporal Sensors are all redundant to each other - if you have one kind, you don't need the others. Just research whichever of these kinds has the cheapest research path for your race and the other techs you have researched.

What really bugs me is that Gravitic Sensors are in the same research path as Tachyon, at a higher level, so you need to research Tachyon first. Since the level 1 Gravitic Sensor is actually not as good as the level 3 Tachyon Sensor that comes right before it on the path, it is actually an expensive step down, not up.

Unless there is some tech that will block Tachyon sensors but not block Gravitic, I cannot see why anyone would ever want to waste the extra research points getting Gravitic when they have to get Tachyon first on that same path.

This all refers to the unmodded game, of course. Imperator Fyron mentioned that some mods change these, but I haven't tried any yet. Still trying to figure out the basics. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

SpaceBadger

Re: different types of sensors
 

This is one of those intended features that didn't quite work out. I am fairly certain that MM originally planned for the various scanners to be different, but due to AI problems, nixed the idea in beta. Of course, I was not a beta tester, so I may well be wrong on that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Also, where are you getting Gravitic and Tachyon scanners being in the same tech path? Tachyon require Sensors 4-6, which requires Physics 1. Gravitic requires Gravitational Technology 1-3, which reqiures Astrophysics 2. They are not at all on the same tech path.

[ September 15, 2003, 21:12: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: different types of sensors
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, my faulty memory, I guess. I could have sworn that I got Gravitic Sensors in the next level of Sensors research after Tachyon 3. Guess I was mistaken.

OK, all please diregard mini-rant below re Tachyon and Gravitic Sensors on same path. Oops! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

SpaceBadger

Re: different types of sensors
 

SpaceBadger just in case you didn't know tachyon sensor costs more than any other sensors I think it cost you min.2500 rad.1100 now the other sensors cost min.1500 rad.500 they all scan the same way so I don't use tachyon sensors anymore.As you can guess I'm cheap http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

P.S a friend of mine said the name Space Weasel fits me because I can be alittle tricky in the game [like blowing up his star when we agreed on a treaty before the game started http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ]so what do you think the SpaceBadger and the Space Weasel together roaming the solar systems? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif