OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

Apparently, it is not all gloom and doom:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3112322.stm

Go, China, go !! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

Yeah, the U.S. needs some competition, needs a new Space Race. Then we'll see somthing worth talking about.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

Yes!! I guess when Mars is official target for 5 billion chinese settlers money for the space programm would mysteriously appear out of nowhere. A lot of money.

[ September 16, 2003, 14:47: Message edited by: Roanon ]

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

You know, there was a lot of exploration activity by the Chinese in the 15th century. They sailed to India and Africa, and there are some controversial claims that they reached the Americas from the west before Columbus found them from the east. But a new Emperor came to power and had a fit of superstition, so he shut down the expeditions and China went back to its more traditional isolationism. Soon after these strange, pale foreigners began to appear in their primitive sailing ships. Before long those foreigners were everywhere trading and staking claims. From the early 16th century it was only downhill for China.

Now it looks like we've got a deja vu on our hands. The US and Russia started the space age. But Russia has fallen on hard times and can't afford to maintain a serious space program anymore, and the US just plain isn't interested. Only Europe and Japan also have the resources to do any serious space exploration but they are also barely interested. Will this era be written up in the history books as the 'lap' by the formerly 'lapped' runner? Will China now go forward into serious space exploration and leave the so-called 'advanced' west behind?

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

add asteriod mining to my fictional show...in the hopes that the average consumer realises that space exploration CAN be profitable...

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

As long as they don't use pirated / knock-off software to control the ship.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Of course, then where will the profit be... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

There is a hush hush military space program in the US that gets something like 10x the funding of NASA... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stargate ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's probably Aurora, the replacement for the SR71. It's reputedly a 'ramjet' or 'scramjet' and given the performance levels it must sustain to do what is claimed I can believe it would cost as much as or more than the shuttle. If it does what the rumors say it is very close to the 'orbital plane' they are talking about for a shuttle replacement.

The reason for the lack of support for the public Version might well be the existence of the secret one. Rather than make a big public commitment to this technology the intelligence/military community would certainly rather that it be kept quiet so their potential targets don't realize it is possible and start planning to defend themselves against it. Spy satellites became dramatically less useful once various enemies learned about timing their activities between their predictable passes. If they realized that a 'plane' could fly at 200,000+ feet they would know to point their radar up high enough and watch for it. Knowing it's there lets them hide their activities even if they can't shoot it down. A major advantage in surveillance could be lost.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stargate ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, a real program. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

BM, I forget what it is called, but it is a full blown agency similar to NASA, not just a single project. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And all military applications of course.

[ September 16, 2003, 23:34: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

That's why hammers cost $400. and a coffee pot $200. All that extra money goes into the black budget where it can't be accounted for.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

[quote]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Quote:

No, a real program. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif BM, I forget what it is called, but it is a full blown agency similar to NASA, not just a single project. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And all military applications of course.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Majestic?
Project Blue Book? *umm, puts on thinking hat*

I really like the Stargate one, it would be perfect to have a Sci-fi program to get us used to the idea, I mean even Regan said something to the effect "how would we react if the Earth was confronted by a evil alien force", and I dont think he was talking about illegal immigration either! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

But hell, we should spend more money and really start pushing the envelope, I mean just working on technology to mine asteroids would eventually pay for its self. Also, I wonder if space exploration became a private enterprise, couldnt they just go somewhere and lay claim to anything since no one else is doing it? Humm, Microsoft decides to use the billions of the money they have just sitting around, go to Mars, and claim it as their own, put some R & D labs on planet, a few defensive platforms in orbit, THAT would be a monopoly!!!

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmm, I can just see the EULAs that would go with the colonization licenses. This planet is licensed, not sold. By landing you agree to all terms, including delivery of your first born to MS for conditioning as Microserfs.

With apologies to the original author on the Master of Orion Boards at Delphi:

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[ September 17, 2003, 22:59: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

And if this other "Covert NASA" is far enough ahead in exploration (with or without E.T. help) maybe they already know all the best planets are already taken. However this gets into the "Is there life out there?" thread.
Wouldn't that be depressing! We finally get the ability for interstellar travel and find some other race has taken all the "Eden" planets.
Maybe we should be a subjugate of the E.T.'s

"Back to your stinking planet Monkey Boy!..oh here's some shiny trinkets for you to play with. Try not to kill each other!"

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unfortunately the USA has signed a treaty (The Moon treaty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ) that disallows claiming space objects for goverments or private industries. Many think this is causing companies not to try to go to space to get resources (the obvious reason after lebensraum). The emphasis is all on Space Tourism, Satillite Graveyards, and such.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unfortunately the USA has signed a treaty (The Moon treaty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ) that disallows claiming space objects for goverments or private industries. Many think this is causing companies not to try to go to space to get resources (the obvious reason after lebensraum). The emphasis is all on Space Tourism, Satillite Graveyards, and such.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">There is a slight loophole - the Last I heard, the US didn't sign second Version, the one which Banned private individuals arbitrarily claiming stellar bodies. In theory, a US citizen would be permitted to claim an unclaimed portion of our solar system and sell it to a corporation, who could then go and mine it (after all, they weren't the ones who claimed it - they bought it).

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">hmmm, since China did not sign this global agreement, (the moon treaty).. doesn't that mean that they are not bound by it's terms? Or does it mean that the countries that did sign this treaty will become dictators and force all the countries that didn't sign to comply?

I find it strange, yup, I really do.

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Couldn't they just go up there and start mining (or whatever they want to do) but without making any sort of claim upon the territory?

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If you mean a company, they could but would run the risk of doing all the work to extract the minerals and then having to surender them if a court decides they don't have a proper claim to them.

[ September 18, 2003, 16:09: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

When you think about the possibility of man in space, going faster than the speed of light, and people say it will never happen, I point out the simple historical fact that 1,000 years ago, the thought of man flying, let alone walking on the moon was unthinkable.

1,000 years ago we had to walk. A 2,000 mile trip would take 6 months.
500 years ago we had sailing ships. A 2,000 mile trip would take 6 weeks.
100 years ago we had cars. A 2,000 mile trip would take 6 days.
50 years ago we had propeller airplanes. A 2,000 mile trip would take about 16 to 24 hours.
Today we have jet air craft. A 2,000 mile trip takes 2 hours.

If we survive, think how fast we will be going in another 100 years.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

There are already claims being filed on the Moon and several other planets. Visit http://www.moonshop.com/ and see for yourself. Or go directly to www.lunarembassy.com for the legalese. Whether those claims will be honored is another question... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And as far as our future travel speed, those past advances were merely incremental. Even a modern jet airliner at ~600 mph is only about 200 times faster than a horse. The speed of light is 186,000 miles per second not per hour. That's 670,000,000 mph! We've got a few more 'technological revolutions' to go through before worrying about that barrier. Worrying about it now is kinda like being concerned about the sound barrier when the steam locomotive was invented.

[ September 18, 2003, 18:09: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

Mistake, ignore.

[ September 18, 2003, 18:09: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stargate ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now wouldn't that be a kick in the pants!!! a TV show that had a "Real" project in it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

how would the media miss a g'ould? mothership landing on that waddaya callit hollow mountain base?

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

I do not recall a Goa'uld mothership ever landing on the Earth in Stargate...

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

There was one incident, but it was an alternate reality thing, and didn't happen in the show's home dimension.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

but, they indicated that they knew it was going to happen because something simalair had happened in the home dimension - although if it did, i missed it.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unfortunately the USA has signed a treaty (The Moon treaty http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif ) that disallows claiming space objects for goverments or private industries. Many think this is causing companies not to try to go to space to get resources (the obvious reason after lebensraum). The emphasis is all on Space Tourism, Satillite Graveyards, and such.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Whats this lebensraum your talking about?

Also, I am not a rocket scientist, nor a lawyer, but wth good is a treaty if they aint up there, I mean, lets say again for argument, that a HUGE corporation decided to make space exploration a reality. Said Corp mines an asteroid, brings back material, before arrival they get wind of a court order to confiscate it on return, so they land in a 3rd world country that never signed the treaty, has an agreement with the Corp that the country will get an import fee to build up that country and they will support that Corp. So now what?

I just cant see what anyone could do, with things the way they are now, there is no super power in space, I dont consider that space station nothing more than a novelty item. So couldn't someone just thumb their noses at anyone that tried to impose that treaty. If a company had the resources to colonize mars, what would keep them from claiming it all if no one else could get there (I mean, corporations are greedy aren't they?).

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Actually, they did an episode built around exactly that concept. It was funny. But the funny X-Files episodes were better. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">NORAD, it's right up the road. Not a wrong turn you want to make. Despite the fact that there are many signs that tell you that you are not supposed to be there, every now and then someone will make it far enough that they get talked to (or yelled at) by overly-excited eighteen-year-olds with assault rifles. <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">What you are forgetting, there, is that "No man is an island." This is still true for the corporations, and even the super corporations.

Even a launch facility is difficult to build, take a look at what Brazil has been going through. A launch facility for large craft capable of leaving Earth's orbit would be monumental. Even the Soviets had trouble with that.

Add to that the necessity of government funding for developing the rockets in the first place, and the near-impossibility of getting off that addiction, and you've got a Highly Unlikely on the Speculation Scale for Independent Corporations Taking Over Outer Space.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Beyond what Loser said, even if a corp could work out the technical hurdles to deal only with some back water country, any corporation with the resources to attempt such a venture is going to have significant assets in many different countries. Assests that are subject to seizure.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Other way around - a precurser of the event had happened in the home dimension a few years later than the one in the attacked dimension. When it came around to the home dimension's turn, the ships (there were two of them, rather than one) were taken out in orbit by an intel project; they got passed off as meteorites that fell into the ocean.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

Geo and Loser... I know that is the way things are now, I am just thinking what if a Corp developed something that solved alot of the "cost of leaving orbit". I can see how hard it would be for the world public to let Corp X take total control of Mars or the Moon for that matter, but what if they took baby steps, claimed an asteroid, perhaps one of Jupiter's moons. HOW, could they inforce something that they could not get to? Much of our law is based on presidence, there are no one being conqured, and I could see Corp X laywer defend seizure of assets, he gets up with a wide grin "Na na na na, ownership is 9 tenths of the law, and since we are the only ones that has the tech to get up there, how you going to make us".

I just have a hard time bowing down to goverments that make laws like that, I mean if I wanted to take a rocket and go into space, I have to get clearence from the Air Force, geeze, who are they to say if I can go up or not?

ps sorry about the typos, in a hurry and this come dont have spell checker *sigh*

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

Ah, yes. But if things continue in the way they have for a long time, that development will be so expensive and so financially risky that it will only be made with the assistance of a government.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

"lebensraum" is German for "living room" places to live. Made famous as a cause for WWII. The germans wanted lebensraum (and couldn't yet go into space to get it).

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

Cool stuff :
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/23/sc...partner=GOOGLE

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

I've figured, for a while now, that a space elevator was part of the Space Yard Facility. It seems pretty necessary.

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

I tried to find the original, but all I could find was a Google Cached copy. This is an article I read a while back about one company trying to commercialize the moon by storing backup data there:

http://216.239.37.104/search?q=Cache...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

My only concern: If I have to restore my data from the moon, don't I have more to worry about than my data? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I would think it would be more feasible to use the "four corners of the world".... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

Mr or Ms IT profesional. Is your backed up data really safe? Are you concerned about the impact on your remote storage facility of a catastophic disaster on a global scale? You should be. Call Luna Data Services and you can sleep better at night knowing that even if the human race is erradicated along with all organic life on earth, your company's data will be safe and your company will be ready to get back to doing business with the absolute minimum in down time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: future of a manned space exploration.
 

i bookmarked that 'space elevator' one.