What is the point to life?
 

Think about this for a second. We are born with the knowledge that we are going to die, so I ask you to consider why we are even given life in the first place. Doesn't it seem like a cruel thing to do, give something life with the knowledge that its life will ultimately mean nothing because it will die?

Why live if you know that the end result is just going to be death. Its like playing this great video game even though you KNOW your going to loose. That in the end everything meant nothing because you can't take it with you.

What good are memories of good times, and bad, if life after death is nothingness where concience thought does not exsist?

Think about this, do you remember the time before you were born? If not, then how do you expect to remember the you were live after you have died?

Our lives are meaningless in the end, and the journey there is made even more terrorfying because we know what will happen.

What is the purpose to life if death is the end result?

[ October 06, 2003, 04:37: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

You don't lose at life, it just ends, like any video game ends.

Yes, everything comes to an end eventually, and while it might seem meaningless, it's only got the meaning you give it. If you feel it's meaningless, it will be. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Why are we here? To live, to exist, to continue. Those are our basic instincts, it's how we managed to survive evolution. Beyond that, it's our decision. That's the burden of sentience. So you have to decide if you want to make your life worth something or not.

I look at it like this. We have survived, as a civilization, for thousands of years. We strive ever forward, attempting to make our lives better, to improve things, and to learn. If I can leave behind a legacy for future generations, if I can do even the smallest something to help further that goal along, my life is worth something. If I were to die tomorrow, I'd know that I've had some impact on the world, however small it may have been.

You live for yourself, to enjoy life as much as you can. Life's too short to endlessly wallow in the bad things that happen or in despair. Contribute your skills and talents to make the world a better place, and learn. Never stop learning, and never stop teaching.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Idea 1: Maybe for people who only care about themselves?

Idea 2: Maybe the point is to have a good time. "Live" it up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Idea 3: Why would something have to exist forever in order to have any meaning?

PvK

[ October 06, 2003, 05:01: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Are you so certain of that? Do two-year-olds act like they know they are going to die? Do you remember knowing you were going to die when you were two? Or one? Or six weeks? If not, how are you certain people are born with the knoweledge, rather than aquiring it at some later date? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting; you seem to be operating under an assumption: X Eventually dies -> X is ultimately meaningless. I don't recognize that transition as valid. Do you have support for it? <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How do you expect anything you haven't done/seen done before will come out the way you expect? You trust the accounts of others, or rely on your own reasoning. If there is an account you trust that says there is something beyond the grave, then you don't need to worry about nothingness following, and can reasonably expect to remember you were alive. If you don't have such a trusted source, well, stinks to be you. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just because something has ended does not mean that it was meaningless.

Likewise, how can you be so certain that there isn't anything after death?

Even if there isn't, why should a certainty be terrifying? There is no reason to be afraid of something that is totally certain; the fear will help you not one whit (pretty much by definition of that scenario). Fear is better saved for things you can do something about; if you can't, fearing it is quite pointless, and you efforts can be more enjoyably spent elsewhere. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Death's a transition, not an end. The condition is not met, so the consequent is immaterial.

I'm in an odd mood today....

Re: What is the point to life?
 

"Everything that has a beggining, has an end"

Sorry to quote a movie trailer, but it's a meaningful truism for me.

Or, another way to think about it - does a raindrop only have meaning while it is falling?

Or does it return to being part of a greater meaning when absorbed back into the earth?

For a fleeting moment it seems to have the freedom of it's own form, but really it is always a part of greater whole. We too are like this.

You can accept the reality of the illusion, or you can despair and waste it.

I believe joy has meaning, even though it ends.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Biologically, it is to reproduce and then increase your offspring's chances of success at mating. Some species do the rabbit approach (make a zillion babies, some will survive maybe) or the human was of doing things is to have few children and spend large amounts of energy on them to increase their odds.
Spiritually, I suppose the point of life is to attune yourself to whatever religion/beliefset or whatever.
Me though, I am here to take over the world.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Somebody woke up in a bad mood today. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

As for me, I'm not going to die, and I'm going to keep saying that until the day I fall over and never get up. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Sex is nice. If your having lots of sex your not thinking about dying yet!

Oh, yeah! wanted to add this. Phooey on religion. Who cares.

[ October 06, 2003, 07:27: Message edited by: Wizarc ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

I may think that the drop of rain has no meaning until a sentient being look or think about it.

"Meaning" is maybe meaningfull only for sentient being.

And yes, I do not think you know you will die when born, but I think you are taught you will rather fast.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just be sure that that's absolutely true before acting on it. It'd be a pity to find out afterwards it's not...

Re: What is the point to life?
 

What's life for? Why, it's for figuring out what life is for, of course.

Oh, and to ask someone else is cheating, so you didn't just read this. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Seems to me that the question is more about what death is in the end. A wise men once said this about death (beware, rather long):

Let us reflect in another way, and we shall see that there is great reason to hope that death is a good; for one of two things - either death is a state of nothingness and utter unconsciousness, or, as men say, there is a change and migration of the soul from this world to another. Now if you suppose that there is no consciousness, but a sleep like the sleep of him who is undisturbed even by dreams, death will be an unspeakable gain. For if a person were to select the night in which his sleep was undisturbed even by dreams, and were to compare with this the other days and nights of his life, and then were to tell us how many days and nights he had passed in the course of his life better and more pleasantly than this one, I think that any man, I will not say a private man, but even the great king will not find many such days or nights, when compared with the others. Now if death be of such a nature, I say that to die is gain; for eternity is then only a single night. But if death is the journey to another place, and there, as men say, all the dead abide, what good, O my friends and judges, can be greater than this? If indeed when the pilgrim arrives in the world below, he is delivered from the professors of justice in this world, and finds the true judges who are said to give no judgment there, Minos and Rhadamanthus and Aeacus and Triptolemus, and other sons of God who were righteous in their own life, that pilgrimage will be worth making. What would not a man give if he might converse with Orpheus and Musaeus and Hesiod and Homer? Nay, if this be true, let me die again and again. I myself, too, shall have a wonderful interest in there meeting and conversing with Palamedes, and Ajax the son of Telamon, and any other ancient hero who has suffered death through an unjust judgment; and there will be small pleasure, as I think, in comparing my own sufferings with theirs. Above all, I shall then be able to continue my search into true and false knowledge; as in this world, so also in the next; and I shall find out who is wise, and who pretends to be wise, and is not. What would not a m an give, O judges , to be able to examine the leader of the great Trojan expedition; or Odysseus or Sisyphus, or numberless others, men and women too! What infinite delight would there be in conversing with them and asking them questions! In another world they do not put a man to death for asking questions: assuredly not. For besides being happier than we are, they will be immortal, if what is said is true. Wherefore, O judges, be of good cheer about death, and know of a certainty, that no evil can happen to a good man, either in life or after death. He and his are not neglected by the gods; nor has my own approaching end happened by mere chance. But I see clearly that the time had arrived when it was better for me to die and be released from trouble, wherefore the oracle gave no sign. For which reason, also, I am not angry with my condemners, or with my accUsers; they have done me no harm, although they did not mean to do me any good; and for this I may gently blame them. Still I have a favor to ask of them. When my sons are grown up, I would ask you, O my friends, to punish them; and I would have you trouble them, as I have troubled you, if they seem to care about riches, or anything, more than about virtue; or if they pretend to be something when they are really nothing, - then reprove them, as I have reproved you, for not caring about that for which they ought to care, and thinking that they are something when they are really nothing. And if you do this, both I and my sons will have received justice at your hands. The hour of departure has arrived, and we go our ways - I to die, and you to live. Which is better God only knows.

Apology of Aristoteles, 40c to 42a

Re: What is the point to life?
 

I think the meaning of life is up to the individual. My meaning of life is to try and raise my kids to the best of my ability, and love them without reservation. At least this is the assumption I am operating under, and if my "meaning" is incorrect, it's going to take a lot of effort by someone to change my mind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The simple truth is you can't think like that, as it will rob you of all joy in life. I believe the meaning of life is to enjoy it for what it is, not to brood on what may or may not happen in the future (such as death). Sure, I believe there is no such thing as immortality, either through rebirth, or through life after death. I think death is simply nothingness, an absence of consciousness, not eternal torture in a hell, or eternal bliss in a heaven. Simple nothingness. However, the point of life is to contribute in some way to better ourselves, and to try to better all of humanity in some way, however small.
And we can attain some measure of immortality. If we have children, we never really die, and all of us are remembered by others, even long after death, so I guess it can be said that none of us ever really dies, at least in the memory of others, and because of our contribution to others.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">First off, in the material I quoted above you are making some assumptions that I don't agree with. I'm a Christian, and I believe that there is more to it than what you've stated.

However, even assuming for the sake of discussion your chosen limitations, what about enjoying life while you live it? What about making the lives of others more enjoyable, or at least less miserable? What about leaving the world a little better for your descendants, or for just people in general if you have no descendants? What about not letting down those who are depending on you right now, and who are perhaps looking to you for an example of how they should live?

SpaceBadger

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">that's like argueing that an amniesiac didn't exist before there amnesia.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Someone's baiting an arguement. I'll bite, but I'm not going to hang on to the hook.

Life isn't anything. It does not "Mean" anything. You dont get anything or go anywhere when you die. You're just dead. Thats it. And you're not much more than that, right now. Your a collection of cells, which are a collection of atoms, that exist from one moment to the next, and your consiousness is only self percieved because some of those cells are altered by events as time goes by, and thus you collect "memories." but its not alot fancier than that. You're not all that different from any other animal, which isnt all that far off from a plant, which isn't all that dissimilar from any random collection of chemical reactions.

Someone on this forum has a great quote from Democritus of Abdera that sum's it up:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That being said, you might as well enjoy what you've got. Stop being so f-ing pompous and dont think that you have to justify everything with some sort of higher purpose. You're not chosen and theres not some mission to your life, and your not going to achieve or lose anything in death. Have a good time. Live in the here and now, because its all you've got. And only reflect on the future or past when it pleases you to do so. Live for youself, unless it pleases you to live for others. In short, do what you like. To quote Bob Marley, "Don't Worry, Be Happy."

And for some more uniquely up-beat nihlism, give Ex-Oblivione by H.P. Lovecraft a quick read:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">edit: fixed my quotes

[ October 06, 2003, 18:35: Message edited by: Puke ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

I have this theory that I think helps prove the pointlessness to life.

You live in a very nice area, say Portland Oregon for all of your life. The cost of living was afordable say around 20k. The climate is great, the recreational areas are great, the people - well normal. Then the rich folks "discover" it. The next thing you know the cost of living, poverty level, is $40,000 a year and most of the people who have lived here their entire lives can no longer aford to stay. The rich ran them off just like we did to the Indians. "Oh this is a very nice area you live in here. We are going to relocate you to this god forsaken waste land so that we can have your property."

The rich win by simply being able to aford the increased cost of living. They win because any one who makes less than 40k a year now can not afford to live around here. Now the rich can pick up houses on the foreclosure market for pennies on the dollar and get richer selling them to those who earn above the poverty level of 40k a year.

They simply raise the cost of living to the point that only the rich can aford to live.

Our lives are given meaning by simple things, the pleasure of reproduction, the taste of food, the creativeness that we all posess, etc. But in the end, we realize that all that really matters is what makes us happy while we are living.

Family, good food, friends, the places we love to live, the things we enjoy doing. When those are all taken from you, what is left?

I not saying people should go out and off themselves, god no, what I am saying is if all that we base our lives on are things that can be taken from us, plus factor in the knowledge that death will come no matter what, then life is really a cruel thing.

So if life is a cruel thing, then living is a punishement as we must endure the loss of all that life offers as a reward for living.

We are born into this world with nothing and we leave it with nothing.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Life is not cruel. Life is indifferent. Existence is unjust. Experience is inconsistent.

The evil, the pain, the Adamic burden, the sin is in memory. Keeping the past around, holding your action against yourself, holding another's behavior against them, this is from where suffering comes. An awareness of reality outside the present is the Fruit of the Tree of Knowledge. It empowers us to change our world and ties us to things we cannot change, our personal epic histories.

Enlightenment, contentment, redemption, they all require an acknowledgement of the past, not an escape from it. But this acknowledgement is not made for the purpose of maintaining some perpetual accountability, it is made to free the consciousness from dwelling on painful impossibilities.

Letting go is the key to happiness.

[ October 06, 2003, 19:11: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

well, yeah.. if you're on the losing side, i suppose. thats just a part of evolution, more powerfull societies have taken desireable land from less developed cultures, and it even happens internally in our own country - and other countries - where the empowered take advantage of the average or the disadvantaged.

call it cruel if you like, but its evolution in action. people are no different from animals. the pendilum can swing the other way too - the french revolution being an extreme example. dont read too much into it all. life and family and friends all remain. if the activities you enjoy are all expensive, then i cant help you there. but item and property ownership isnt really all that rewarding. at least, not to me.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">First off, in the material I quoted above you are making some assumptions that I don't agree with. I'm a Christian, and I believe that there is more to it than what you've stated.

However, even assuming for the sake of discussion your chosen limitations, what about enjoying life while you live it? What about making the lives of others more enjoyable, or at least less miserable? What about leaving the world a little better for your descendants, or for just people in general if you have no descendants? What about not letting down those who are depending on you right now, and who are perhaps looking to you for an example of how they should live?

SpaceBadger</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I do not mean to offend any one who choses to believe in an after life for the truth is no one really knows what death really brings except those who have died and they are not talking.

I am of the same mind as Puke and feel that once you gone, your gone. There is no heaven no hell, no nothing. I do believe in the essence of God, but not in religion of God. Its complicated, but basically put I am open minded and respect all people regardless of their beliefs.

If you believe in the after life, then I am very happy for you. I wish I could believe, but simply do not.

I have spent my life for others, I have sacraficed eveything to be good to others, and the deed is often its own reward, but over the Last few years I have come to the simple realization that people are people are people.

No good deed goes unpunished, nice guys do finish Last, evil is reward while kindness if punished. There are two types of poeple, criminals, and good criminals.

Good criminals are the people who run the systems that we all live by, banking, religion, government, etc. They are the ones who get wealthy off of the backs of those who do the work. Criminals, normal folks come in two sub types. Bad Criminals, and honest criminals. Bad criminals are those criminals who do horrible things like murder, rape, etc, while honest criminals are people who follow the rules, but occationally make minor mistakes such as jay walking, speeding, not waring your seat belt, etc.

The Good criminals are the people who get rich off of the backs of the rest of us. They are the guys who bankrupt a company making millions while the life savings of the companies employes is wiped out.

A good friend of mine at work brought in a philosopy book once. I read it. My life was for ever change after that. The very things that many of us complain about today, taxes, death, religion, money are very much the same thing that people have complained about since the dawn of recorded history.

Nothing changes except the stupid laws we use to govern ourselves. The laws that are written by the rich for the rich to benifit the rich. The rich do not go into the military as PFC's, no they go in as officers and often their arrogance get the PFC's killed.

The poor are nothing but a renewable resource for the wealthy to use to get wealthier. If you do not earn interest, your are paying interest. If all that my life is for is to make some other bastards life better then I choose not to play the game.

I am not a slave, I am owned by the company that I slave away at. My life is mine, why should I trade it away for just enough money to get a taste of living but not enough to live.

Depressing isn't it? Well when you boil it all down to the simple truth, as Puke said, we are all nothing but a collection of atoms. We all die rich or poor. And while I am here, living, I choose not to live to make the rich richer.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">"Death to the Lawyers and all those who have unblemished hands!"

Evolution sucks arse! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Revolutions kick arse http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Loser, the key to being happy is in letting go. Oh how true that is. However, letting things go sometimes comes at a huge and often overwhelming expense.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

It is more expensive to hold on. Letting go is hard, but it is the only solution.
Anything else is just makeup on a bruise.

[ October 06, 2003, 19:32: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

no, no, no.. you have to hold on loosely, and not let go. because if you cling to tight...

ah, nevermind.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Seems like a very liberal (infact, socialist!) point of view for a staunch republican! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif (judging from comments in the 'iraq war' thread).

Cheer up! Most of the world have a hard time finding something to eat, and are a whole world away from worrying about 'gentrification'.

While you have enough to eat, family and friends, and the prospect of good times in your life, what is the point of wasting your vast potential on despair?

Look at Aaron Hall. I wouldn't call him a criminal (even by your definitions). Yet I bet he earns more than 40K! And he does it by bringing joy to all of us, so that we are happy to support him for it.

From the little I know of you, I have seen a lot of talent (as anyone who has seen your shipsets will attest). Find a use for that talent that people will be happy to pay you for, work hard and voila! All of a sudden you are the one earning good money for doing something you love, hurting no one, and sharing the bounty with those you love.

But most of all, please enjoy the good things you've got right now, because those too will come to an end. That is the meaning of life: Because it comes to an end, every moment not living it to your best potential, is a moment wasted.

Don't waste it! You have too much to offer!

Re: What is the point to life?
 

We all sacrifice for others, and those sacrifices are not always appreciated. In fact, many times they are not. But that's not the point. We can't let things like that get us down. We sacrifice for others because it is the right thing to do, and most of us are moral people at heart. We can only live the way we know we should, and whether or not other people appreciate it, does not matter.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Not a socialist, but a Depressionist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

This is more of a philisophical (sp) discussion than how I really look at things in life. I am actually rather optomistic by nature, I know good things will happen in time, but I can't help but take notice of all the other things that are going on.

The question about the purpose to life is as old as we our race.

Thanks for your concern Ran, http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif that was very kind of you. I started this topic because I enjoy reading what people post on important issues and such.

All though life is cruel and I question the meaning of living if death is the ultimate reward, I do take great pleasure in exsisting. I mean just playing SEIV sometimes is the greatest thrill one could hope for. Life has many surprises, most good, but some not so good.

Good life surprises would be Star Wars and winning the lotto.
Bad surprises would be a flat tire or a sudden death of a loved one.

Take life as it comes, because when its over, it is really over. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Very true, but experience is the lens (however scratched and out of focus) through which we each individually view the world. My view through my lens will be dramatically different than that of Bill Gates or anonymous villager in West Africa. Our lens and our interpretter (mind) are all we have to make sense of the world and most of the time there is no sense to be found. Then the mind starts to make its own "sense," impose its own overlay of order and normalcy on even the most surreal and absurd situations. It stops trying to discern the truth and creates its own "truth."

Why do people continue to live under capricious tyrants? They've convinced themselves that this is the best option available to them. Their distorted lens has overwhelmed their mind and the mind has been forced to rationalize.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Happiness is overrated. Seriously, this is giving up in a different way. By letting go, we are denying that our experience (however muddled) is valid. It is. Everyone's experience is just as valid as the next person's By putting these experiences together, we start to eliminate (see through) some the distortions of our individual experience and get closer to truth.

By letting go, by accepting our plight, we shirk any attempt at making a difference, an improvement in the world. I'm not saying that everyone has an inner Lincoln waiting to get out, but there are oppourtunities, some easy and almost passive (say, voting) all the way to the dangerous. Most are small and nearly imperceptable (a city council meeting, a mentoring program) but their cumalative effect can be dramatic.

Oops, this got a little heavy and long winded. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">well, you palookas dont want to get me started on morality - but Renegade is on to something here that you should pay attention to:

you are not making a sacrifice for anyone if you are expecting to be rewarded for it. its sort of like going to the gym for a workout. its supposed to be work, otherwise they'd call it a relax-and-have-a-margarita-out. if you're making a sacrifice, then you shouldn't be worried about whos going to thank you for it, or pay you back, or even notice. you should't even be worried about fate paying you back with divine karma. its called a sacrifice for a reason.

so the next time your having a margarita instead of going to the gym, raise your glass to all the unsung heros who really did make sacrifices.

and in case you forgot, moderate me down so that forum newbies dont mistakenly give credit to anything i say http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Amazing how the same options keep coming up (stoicism/buddhism/"letting go" - hedonsim - monotheisn/Christianity), even if the labels change. Nothing new under the sun...

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No worries, you just seemed a bit down!

I know how hopeless life feels when everything just looks bleak, so I try to help others out of that hole when I can.

Have a better one!

It's a pity she won't live, but then again, who does?

Bladerunner

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">...is a drop of rain sentient?
...
are we?

...is reality itself?

who knows!?!?

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ain't that the truth.

As for happiness being overrated, there's a old saying "If you havn't got your health, what have you got?". Well, health is easy where I come from. We're actually the healthiest State in the Union, but health is pretty easy anywhere in the developed world.

So now it's "If you're haven't got happiness, what have you got?". Letting go of the past isn't running away from it, because as long as you are hiding from it you haven't released. My goal is not to live for the past, but for the future.

I used to think I'd want to be rich, or popular, or smart. F*** that noise! Being happy is where it is truely at.

Slide.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok, what did you just say?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif I have no idea what some of those words mean http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Most, yeah, but hedonism?? monotheism??

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok, what did you just say?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif I have no idea what some of those words mean http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif Most, yeah, but hedonism?? monotheism??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hedonism: giving meaning to life through the pursuit of pleasure.

Monotheism: the belief in an exclusive one true god.

Stoicism: An an ancient philosophical system characterised by the casual acceptance of the worst of life's pain.

(not dictionary definitions)

Re: What is the point to life?
 

I don't agree with the many of the sentiments expressed in this thread, especially the socialist rail against the rich and powerful.

By and large, from my own personal experience I don't find that the rich and powerful got that way undeservedly. Sure, I know of many people who are rich because of their parents, but I also see that many of them end up making a mess of their lives and disappointing their parents.

Many of the rich and powerful people that I personally know got that way because they worked long hours, made huge personal sacrifices and took big risks along the way. And whatever they want to do with their hard-earned money is pretty much their business.

I don't have any sympathy at all for people who say that they deserve a particular kind of lifestyle or neighborhood and that "society" owes it to them to provide that lifestyle and neighborhood simply because they're used to that lifestyle and neighborhood.

I don't have any sympathy either for comments about rich people f*cking over the lives of the poor. I do agree that some people get rich by cutting legal corners sometimes, but I also see that it comes back to haunt them. Not always, but enough so that I wouldn't want to take the same route myself.

I don't believe that poor people deserve sympathy simply for the 'virtue" of being poor. I do believe that the poor people who want to improve their lives and are willing to achieve by studying and working harder deserve to be helped, but I see from personal experience that there are many poor people who that way because they are just too unambitious and too lazy to try to change their lives for the better. And I've never known people who are genuinely and consistently hardworking not to succeed in life.

And keep in mind that I am someone who have worked in some of the poorest and most underdeveloped countries in the world, including Gabon, Cameroon, Mozambique and currently the Solomon Islands.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Have you ever met a farmer or a rancher?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Until I saw this part, I thought you might be one of those rich people!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Leave it to you to make one puke... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

I don't think there's life after death. People have tried to tell me otherwise, but I am not convinced since there is no evidence, and their arguments are based only on faith. Some people seem to choose to believe in life after death because they hope that it exists, but I can't bring myself to believe something just because it would be nice if it were true.

So I'll just assume that death is the end, and if I happen to be wrong, I would be pleasantly surprised.

Somebody once said, "Why worry about life after death if you're not even living this one?"

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">People justifying their wealth with 'personal sacrifices' means nothing to me. See someone else's post earlier about how a sacrifice isn't a sacrifice if you plan to get something back from it. They very deliberately chose to make the 'sacrifices', so they shouldn't whinge about them.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think the point is that many people f&ck over the poor without having to cut legal corners. There must be a zillion websites cataloguing corporate evils so I won't bother going into details here but try googling up a few sites against pharmaceutical companies or the tobacco industry. Mostly they shaft people within the law. (Although admittedly they'll often have to buy a politician first to get the laws re-written in their favour.)

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's a nice thought, but I hardly ever see this. Mostly they just keep on getting away with it.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Technically, so is yours. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One problem with this is that several religions, Christianity included, teach that sometimes life after death is not that pleasant for some. And after the fact is a poor time to find out...

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Whatever my thoughts on the afterlife might be, that isn't actually logic. Absence of any evidence means nothing, logically.

To believe something you do not have any evidence to support is not reason, it is faith. That is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I disagree. It is true that with no evidence either way it cannot be said that something is either true or not true. Hence the word 'probably'.

However, all things being equal, the simplest explanation is, logically, the most likley to be true.

This is why I can validly say that George W Bush is probably not J Edgar Hoover, risen from the dead, in a really good disguise.

I currently have no evidence to support that he isn't. However given the fact that I have no evidence to indicate that he is J Edgar Hoover in disguise, logically, he is probably not.

The only difference in likleyhood between these two positions (without any physical evidence) is that one requires a more complex explanation. It is therefore less likley to be true.

It would be difficult to function in a world where this rule was not true.

By the same logic - when we die, in the absence of any other evidence to the contrary, we are probably dead.

In fact, the argument goes further than that, because when we die, we leave behind physical evidence (a dead body) that contradicts everything we know produces life in sentient creatures (ie, a functioning body). Hence, based on our knowledge of physical reality, it can be fairly said that there is no life after death.

Whether, the Bible, the resurrection, the existence of faith itself etc., constitute evidence of an afterlife is a different matter.

[ October 07, 2003, 13:33: Message edited by: Ran-Taro ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am not going to go into what constitutes 'evidence' or the appropriate use of 'probably'. But you are again misusing the word 'logic'. Logic is very strict, and the simplest explanation is, logically, only the simplest explanation, nothing more.

I recommend you use a different word for now. Later take a course in Philosophy or Debate or some such, if you wish to wield 'logic' to favor your opinions.

Again, I'm not saying you are wrong or even that I disagree with you. But logic means certain things, and I do not want to see it abused the way 'ironic' is these days.

[edit: 'Reasonably' fits pretty well.]

[ October 07, 2003, 14:17: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Irony and logic abused? No, say it isn’t so! Not that I am defending anyone but my opinion is that tolerance should be used when reading anyone’s comments. A person with a PhD will see a comment different than a high school graduate. Who is better than whom? Does it matter? In a hundred years both the above people will be dead anyway.

Point being this is a “Public” forum, and “recommending” someone using a different word because it does not suit your taste is, in a nutshell just not right. I have seen many comments and words that where in my view inappropriate, but I try to ask for clarification or “suggest” the use of another word.

What is the point of life? I did not know it needed a point. In our short lives we scream that everything needs a point. Life is all inclusive; lions, tigers, and bears oh my! Does a lion think about the point of life? I think it is simply growth. I was born, I have grown and now I continue to seek growth or face stagnation. But that is me and I am alive. I “suggest” the original question be rephrased to: “What is the point of a human’s life?”

Now I will prepare for the usual bashing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes and thank you. I have meet so few who see what I see.
Gratuitous bump!

Re: What is the point to life?
 

The very basic components that make up our bodies are indistinguishable from the components that make up all the other structures of the universe.

We are in fact the universe made aware of itself. Our atoms were born in the hearts of the stars, and those stars now live in us. And through us they learn about the miracles and mysteries that we are only beginning to comprehend.

I gaze into the night sky and imagine the slow passage of time, and the transformations and travel that my atoms have made, to remarkably stand on a small planet circling a small star, and know what I am.

The meaning of life? I think it is the miracle of knowing we are alive!

Re: What is the point to life?
 

Just read this thread. Well, for me, the answer is simple. There is no point to life. You just live it. That's it. No big answer. Off to playing the Star Trek Mod.

Re: What is the point to life?
 

someone had to do it:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">with apologies to Eric Idle, John Du Perez, and Monty Python.

[ October 07, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: Puke ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Technically, so is yours. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That does not follow. Refusing to accept an assertion without some sort of valid evidence for it does not require faith.

In the absence of any evidence of something existing, it is a logical presumption that it probably doesn't exist.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">However, according to the dogma, believing in Christianity simply as an 'each way bet' will not save you. Hypocrites go to hell.

Hence this is not a good argument to follow Christianity, at least.

[ October 07, 2003, 12:46: Message edited by: Ran-Taro ]

Re: What is the point to life?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Whatever my thoughts on the afterlife might be, that isn't actually logic. Absence of any evidence means nothing, logically.

To believe something you do not have any evidence to support is not reason, it is faith. That is the difference between an atheist and an agnostic.