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OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
Seeing as how I live in Canada, and am the son of a cattle rancher, I'm wondering what the rest of the world (or at least you guys) think about the BSE case in Canada. Is anybody really worried about mad cow disease? Has anybody even heard of it? Does anyone actually know the problems it is causing to one of Canada's largest industries???
Anyways, I'd like to know what people think about this situation, rather than hearing the slanted views of the media. Renegade [ December 24, 2003, 17:13: Message edited by: Renegade 13 ] |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
Well as a Canadian yea I know. (see my sig, inspire my Grandpa Kims sig) And if friggen pisses me off!! I will think twice before I buy anything made in Japan since they appear to be the reason why exports to the US are still Banned.
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Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
*SIGH* I don't eat the brains. I cook my beef before eating. I don't believe disease jumps the species barrier that easy. The limited incidence suggests a more complete study of the epidimiology is needed.
OK, so people can come up with a lot of objections to my reasons. But frankly, I don't think there's a lot of good science behind the connection between BSE and variant CJD. It's right up there with EMF health risks. |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
Last I heard, the current working hypothesis on what exactly causes BSE (several months ago, at least; some of this could be off):
A single protien, a warped form of one occuring naturally in most mammals. Specifically, the protien is warped in such a way that when it encounters the normal Version, it warps the normal Version into the warped Version. Unfortunately, the normal protien is necessary for nerve function, and the warped Version doesn't do that function. As a single protien, we don't know of any method to destroy them all. Heat will destroy some, but not all, of them. Chemicals will destroy some, but not all, of them. Radiation will destroy some, but not all, of them. Unfortunately, one is all it takes. Cooking infected meat won't help much. |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
Yep, BSE is caused by a prion. It developed from scrapie, a similar disease in sheep, because of the practice of feeding the rendered leftovers of slaughter to other livestock. Admittedly it took a while, so prion diseases are not easily transmissible from one species to another, but it does occur. Similarly, the largest spike in 'variant CJD' in the world is currently occuring in Britain where they had this huge problem with BSE. It's small by epidemic standards (a few hundred cases) but quite signifigant in proportional terms. This is the reason for the strict standards in US livestock industry forbidding feeding the remains of animals to other animals.
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Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
well, it seems simple to me. cows are herbivores. herbivores eat plants. so, don't feed meat to herbivores.
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However, if you look at food poisoning, lots of people die each week from that illness, and yet we never hear anything about that in the news. Much of the hype has to do with calling it "Mad Cow Disease". I think that's at least half the problem. |
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the mouse has a good point, one that's finally been taken by the Canadian governments. Anything in the pipeline now might have BSE, but anything being bred right now won't. Of course you won't see a BSE animal coming out of Britian, USA or Canada cause they're all slaughtered before the age of 3 yrs... just before symptoms would present themselves http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif In truth there are probably 1 in a million spontaneous cases of BSE, but we don't see them cause the animals are too young. The Canadian example was likely a spontaneous case (thought the press never reported this) that just happened to be geriatric.
[quote]A single protien, a warped form of one occuring naturally in most mammals... As a single protien, we don't know of any method to destroy them all... Unfortunately, one is all it takes. Cooking infected meat won't help much.[quote] It's a single type of protein all right. The protein is very stable when misfolded, so again, you're right, there's no way to denature all the misfolded Versions (unless you like eating charcoal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). However, one misfolded protein is not enough. Well, it is enough, but because the disease is based upon cascading misfolding, you need to be infected by a reasonable dose for the symptoms to be seen. That is to say, if you were infected by a single prion, and lived to be 10 million years old, yes you could develop the disease. Otherwise, 1 million or so misfolded proteins will have no noticable affect on your physiology. Also the rate of spontaneous misfolding is relatively rare, so eating any mammal could potentially give you this disease. In fact being a mammal could be a problem if you want to avoid BSE and it's analogues completely http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
A good point has been made. The odds of getting v.CJD from a single case of BSE is something like one chance in 10 billion. And the Canadian case never hit the food chain--in any way. In my opinion, there is no reason why the US border shouldn't be opened to Canadian beef immediately. But hey, I'm prejudiced http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
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Canada loses, America loses, Brazil wins :| (No offense to all you brazilians. It just seems to me that whatever happens, brazil won't be affected by all this stupidity.) Edit: BTW, how many countries have opened the border yet? I know Japan hasn't, but that Mexico has and America has partially opened up. I think most of the other countries have opened up but I'm not sure. [ October 09, 2003, 03:40: Message edited by: TerranC ] |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
recieved an email once. how do you tell the difference between a normal cow and a mad cow:
cow: Mooooow mad cow:MoooHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
US FDA does have restrictions on what to feed the livestock but they are stupid:
you cant feed cows cow brains but pig is ok. you cant feed pigs pig brains but cow is ok. |
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</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which is the problem. I'd like to know how Japan justifies how it is screwing our cattle insustry. It was ONE cow found I think in March. It was detected BEFORE entering the food chain. Not a single other case was found. None of the other animals in its herd or any herd it had been with were found with BSE. Japan had 7 or 8 cases in around 2000 I think. Seems (to my uneducated brain) that this suggests that there is more chance of undetected BSE in Japan than Canada. It's hard not to suspect that dirty politics is the real reason the ban is still in effect. |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
LOL, leftover beef byproducts in the US, that’s real funny. Why would they put it into feed when they can make shampoo and SlimJims out of it. Not to mention preformed hamburgers.
On a serious note, the US relies on soy protein for cattle feed to a large extent. (As I thought Canada did) We have a surplus of beans, which makes them cheap. And they add bulk, which eliminates the need to add fillers (sawdust/corn stalks) to the feed. |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
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</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Which is the problem. I'd like to know how Japan justifies how it is screwing our cattle insustry. It was ONE cow found I think in March. It was detected BEFORE entering the food chain. Not a single other case was found. None of the other animals in its herd or any herd it had been with were found with BSE. Japan had 7 or 8 cases in around 2000 I think. Seems (to my uneducated brain) that this suggests that there is more chance of undetected BSE in Japan than Canada. It's hard not to suspect that dirty politics is the real reason the ban is still in effect.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Canadian case was detected in May. And Japan has just recently had another case of BSE. About 3 days ago they found a new one. |
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This is an uneducated comment here, because I am by no means an expert. But I thought I read somewhere that the reason for feeding animal protein to animals has more to do with the cost of disposing of it by any other acceptable means then it has to do with the cost of animal protein relative to vegatable protein. Processing of animals into meat results in a lot of waste byproducts afterall. You can't exactly dump it down the drain.
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Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
If you've got a big enough blender you can http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Of course it's all politics! I haven't heard a peep about the recent (confirm please) case of BSE in Japan. Certainly we have closed our borders to BSE ravaged countries, but those were ravaged while Canada had a single case. "Irrelevant" says the international community, "any BSE = blockades as experienced by the worst case (i.e. the Europe outbreak)" |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
Yea, this IS full of politics indeed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Britain had the most cases and IIRC the order of magnitude was something about several hundred confirmed cases. Other countries like France or Germany had less (round about 100 per country IIRC) cases and many of them turned out to be something different. It's the old story: if you look hard enough you will always find something. I'm sure there is more then one case of BSE in Canada but its not that much hyped as it was in Europe. People here refused to eat beef meat at all and drastic regulations were enforced so that the market wouldn't totally collapse. As usual - with some distance to it - most people are right back now to their "meat level" like nothing ever happened. Am I afraid of BSE? Well, I think it is a wise thing to test the meat and have a look that only occasionally some undetected BSE meat will reach me, minimizing the risk. Further I think cattle (that is no herbivore at all) should be feed with remains of other animals. |
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Due the the high level of integration between the US and Canadian industry a US ban hurts Canada quite a bit. |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
I should have been more clearly. I suggested that there is more than one case of BSE in Canada that just hasn't been detected. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
Actually, a few years back Canada pulled a 'Japan' on Brazil. They stopped importing Brazilian meat (which was no big deal, but then the US stopped too, which really hurt us) on the grounds that our herds were infected. It turns out that we had in fact had some cases of BSE, but they were limited to livestock imported from the UK just before the outbreak there. This UK livestock was slaughtered and disposed of and never hit the market. Animal protein has never been added to animal feed in Brazil. Canada sent a group of experts/inspectors over to check our herds before they resumed their imports.
When the whole story was over, there was a lot of suspicion in the air about the real, political motives for this. Renegade, I wonder if your press ran this story over there at the time. Down here it was a major brouhaha. We even had a boycott on Canadian artists in the radio. |
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Now this isn't to say that you'll have flipper babies if you live by powerlines or somesuch. It seems to be the pattern of the signal, not the signal itself, that can cause the effects. This does mean that I would think twice before allowing my (ficticious) pregnant wife to excessively use a cellphone (especially one of those hands-free headset ones that clip onto your belt, right next to the kid). When you hear something strange don't dismiss it out of hand. Take a look at the supporting data and make an educated decision based on that. Serious findings are often distorted by a sensationalist media. I urge you to look further than that before you decide what is true and what isn't. |
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There's one thing though. You mentioned some BSE infected cattle imported from Britain. The US did the same thing, however theirs were never tracked down. Personally, I think the US has cases, and simply doesn't have the testing facilities (or the will??) to be able to detect BSE. I think Canada and the States should stand together on this, and tell Japan to go f*** themselves. (No offense intended to any Japanese people reading this http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) The only reason BSE is treated as a huge deal is because of the way Britain screwed up with their outbreak. A single case is really no big deal. It was contained. That should be the end of it. Or is the US more interested in placating Japan than their neighbors and friends to the north?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
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US also had a close case with BSE, when a herd of cattle in Vermont (or could be New Hapshire) was suspected of being infected. They were all slaughtered I think. Canada and the US are technically together on this, as many CDC officials said quietly that Canadian beef doesn't pose a risk. What's stopping the Americans from opening the border is Japan's adamant threat to close it's borders to American and Canadian beef if the ban is lifted without the approval of Japanese inspection teams, and a labelling system that would differentiate Canadian beef from American beef. Should Japan close it's borders, the most fetching American beef market in asia would vanish, and American beef producers would riot. And there's no need for us to tell the Japanese to mind their own business; They've recently had their 8th case of Mad Cow disease. |
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[ October 10, 2003, 00:59: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ] |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
TerranC, the Reuter link did not provide any information why there couldn't be undetected cases of BSE. BSE can occur naturally without being exposed to contagious material. So, if there are enough cows out there, you will have some with BSE no matter what. The question is, what do we do about this, especially if we remember that BSE (and similar diseases) are already out there for years (if not centuries...)?
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Hmmm now things should get interesting. I wonder how the US will react now that the shoe is on the other foot.
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Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
Guess I should rename this thread from Mad Cow Disease in Canada to Mad Cow Disease in the US! Personally, I'm interested to see if the US will FINALLY open the border to Canadian beef.
Renegade 13 |
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I think the realy tradgedy in Canada is that our politicians are too busy talking about 'important' issues like gay marriage or decriminilizing pot instead of those that really matter like this one. |
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Personally, I think the US will have no choice but to open their borders to Canadian beef. They're going to say that their beef is perfectly safe, that the consumer has nothing to fear; it was only one isolated case after all. However, that's the exact same as it was in Canada, many months ago. So if the US keeps the border closed while saying that their own beef is still safe, it will show a double standard, and the consumer will not be pleased. They'll say "Well if our beef is safe when we had one case, why isn't Canada's?" And that could start something no beef industry in the US or Canada wants. Renegade [ December 24, 2003, 18:00: Message edited by: Renegade 13 ] |
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"Why I think cows should be a vegetarian food? ... any animal you can hunt with a HAMMER has to be as dumb as a plant!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif " |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
No punt intended, but I remember reading an article two years ago explaining how unlikely it was that USA was free of the mad cow disease.
On the Mac Donald case, kudos to them, it is a good thing a corp can put its acts together and act in a sensitive way. |
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Also I the animal in question was dead before it went to be processed. I could be wrong but I think this practice is Banned in Canada. Edit: Actually I'm sure it is Banned. I'm surprised I forgot but there was a big stink in Ontario when a processing plant was accused of using deadstock. Of course the real reason that the US should imediataly reopen the border to Canadian beef is that the only reason they claim it was still closed was because of the Japanese threats. Since Japan has now Banned US imports there would seem to be little reason to continue the Canadian ban. [ December 26, 2003, 12:46: Message edited by: DavidG ] |
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However, some cattle organizations down there were requesting the border be reopened precisely because they could foresee a case of BSE being found in the US. They wanted Canada to treat them nice if they got a case. Unfortunately, that group was not listened to, and some other more extreme Groups WERE listened to. I don't know if the American border to Canadian cattle will be reopened anytime soon, but I sure hope it will for the sake of Canadian cattle producers everywhere. Renegade 13 [ December 26, 2003, 15:56: Message edited by: Renegade 13 ] |
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I think our beef is safe.
hmm, I think we will head down to MickyDs for some MAD MACs. |
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That mad cow origionally came from Canada.
Get the South Park gang together, strike up the band and... BLAME CANADA |
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Ha! Thats what the evidence has been rigged to say. That's my opinion. First the cow was 4.5 years old, then when it had to be 6.5 to be from Canada, it magically became 6.5 years old. A little bit handy that?? Not to mention many other examples of situations where the evidence has "changed" when it had to to suit the storyt the American gov't had fed the American people.
Just my opinion. Renegade 13 |
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i say we invade america. raid and retreat. when the yanks come, they'll die in the snow. if they can find Canada.
of course, that'll put Mexico at risk. since any good Canadian knows that the US-Mexico war started when the general in charge of the US army said 'let's go invade Canada' and headed off east. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif [ January 02, 2004, 21:20: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ] |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
Invade America! Invade America!............uh oh........
We better be careful Narf. They might call us terrorists and send us to Libya. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
well, hey, we can always conquer Libya, to. Empire Of Canada...has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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Re: OT: BSE (aka Mad Cow Disease) in the US
No no no, not Libya. Supply lines would be too long. Not to mention those pesky suicide bombers and explosions and all that stuff.
We need to invade Greenland. Think about it. Its close, low population, no bombers.... and, better than all that, it will fit in with the rest of Canada!! Icy, snowy, etc. Then we need to "convince" the Scandinavian countries to "join" us. Sound good?? |
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