Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

ok, here's the situation.
At war with Empire's A and B.
Have knocked empire A's intel down to the point where all my attacks are getting through.
I have intel 3 now, and want to use a comms mimic to break their treaty.
It's not clear to me which empire I should choose first when creating the project to ensure that I am actually sending the project against empire A's intel, not empire B.

Anyone know the answer ?

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

The empire that you target the project against (first pick) is who's CI you have to defeat.

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

thanks!

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

Ppl complain about how comm mimic is too powerful against the AI (And largely useless against humans).

Maybe you should have to defeat *both* sets of CI for the operation to succeed? (A bit late to be suggesting hardcode changes I know, but what the hey)

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

I have to strongly disagree with your comment about it being "largely useless against humans".

In 1 PBW game, I used a "Communications Mimic" against an Empire to declair War on his Partner. They then fought a devistating War, never knowing that I started the entire War. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
The result. The lossing Empire surrendered to me, and I easily polished off what remained of the 2nd.
It was all I could do, not to brag to both of them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

Comm mimic is extremely powerful, and yours isn't the only game PBW it's decided.

It made a huge difference in the Paranoia game, and who could forget the tale of the alliance which was destroyed when Comm Mimic removed the trade between two partners, causing a maintenance chain-reaction. The afflicted partner tried the "fire on ship" order to eliminate many of their ships (I'm not sure if they were too far from shipyards to mothball, or if the player didn't think of it), which backfired and caused most of their planets to revolt (upset at all the lost ships!), which sent them into a real resource disaster.

PvK

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

Anyone that does not sufficiently garrison their planets with police troops is just asking for trouble. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif 100 is sufficient in most circumstances, 120 in the most dire.

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

what, exactly does comm mimic do?

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

Causes a declaration of war between two empires. So you can see how that could be bad if the allies don't have good communication or are counting on the trade income. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

You only need 1200 kT of cargo space for the troops. That leaves plenty of space on the breathable worlds (especially if you take Advanced Storage Techniques). Mines are small. You can fit tons of them on a planet. Also, build a storage base or two to hold them (and those satellites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). WPs and Satellites are useless against even moderately sized fleets. They might damage a couple ships, but that hardly means anything, as you should always have some repair ships along with your fleet. They are cheap. Especially when you get to higher speeds, the ships can usually do a lot of damage to the sats/WPs before they get a chance to fire. Their range advantage is not enough, esp. since WPs can be hit very easily from long ranges, due to the -200 ECM penalty for planets. I hardly build them past the early game. Better to spend resources on colony ships, and warships to take the fight to the enemy.

I have only been slowed down by WPs once past the early game, and that was when I attacked a planet that had been filled with temporal WPs with a fleet of about 50 primitive LCs and CRs (they had mostly DUCs, with some PPBs). But, that did not help them much, as I had plenty of state of the art BBs coming on-line at the same time, and they had already lost a lot of ground. Other than that, my fleets have always been able to overwhelm planets filled with WPs. They are really only a threat in the early game, and partially into the middle game.

[ October 14, 2003, 16:19: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

I'm not going to argue the WP issue, and I am glad to have your take on that.

I would like to say that Talisman WPs are still scary. They make that WP range advantage matter a little bit more. But then again, Talisman is scary most all the time.

But about the cargo space, those very worlds that need the additional cargo space from a Cargo Facility are the ones on which every Facility slot is precious. Unless you've got vacuum breathers, those tiny moons are better off with Ship and Fleet Training or Shipyard Facilities, and thus limited to only twenty or so Troops and four or so anger points per turn.

But sure, a wise player ought to be able to keep his breathers happy.

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

I'll throw out two arguments on the WP issue.

1) Even in late-game, WP's can make the difference between a planet which can defend itself from a few ships, to one that will be completely wiped out by even a single minescule unite. This forces the enemy to use a fleet to destroy a planet, instead of being able to wipe out an entire system in one turn with a few units.

2) Late-game WP's can destroy ships even in a large fleet, which can be helpful, but more importantly, if they cripple the mobility of an enemy ship, they can stop or slow an entire fleet, saving other worlds from destruction and buying time for the defender's fleet to arrive, and/or making it possible for the fleet to intercept the attacking fleet.

PvK

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Mines do this, and they do it better.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Good advice. I generally don't use WPs for anything except this and as Point Defense platforms. And if stopping ships is what you're after, don't bother with weapons that might accidentally destroy ships. Use Shield Depleters and Engine Destroyers.

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Mines do this, and they do it better.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A single Sweeper Carrier with twenty Mine Sweeper Vs and planet-attack Fighters will deal harshly with a mined world that lacks WPs.

[edit: these would be ships that separate off from the main fleet, not ships sent off on their own. Just to be clear.]

[ October 14, 2003, 22:27: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Never seen that happen yet. Late game, my smaller fleets (read: 40+ ships, which is a small late game fleet, except on small maps) always steamroll over huge breathables filled with WPs. Of course, that is a rare occurence, as most people don't build WPs. I guess it could happen if you let too much peace occur before going to war, with huge build-up periods. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The problem with WPs is that they eat up a tremendous amount of time and resources to defend all your planets; resources and time that would be better spent on attack ships to take the fight to the enemy. Just a couple of them are meaningless; you must have big planets filled with them to even try to make a dent in the enemy. This is why I essentially quartered the costs of WPs in Adamant Mod. Might have gone too far in the opposite direction, but testing will show that (or the opposite). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ October 14, 2003, 21:53: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but you can't always afford that in non-FQM games. Space is needed for Weapon Platforms and Mine and Satellite staging as well.

Or do you, perhaps, regard Weapon Platforms as usless? At some point late in a game agaisnt humans their use becomes highly questionable, I am finding.

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

On point one, see what Loser said. In late-game, it's easy to sweep mines. A vastly cheaper 1-2 ships can glass a planet defended only by mines... unless it has a few Large WP's.

On point two, yes a 40+ ship fleet usually won't be stopped by a planet filled with WP's. But only a few WP's can stop a small group, or as spoon said, slow down a fleet of any size, if it does mobility damage. A single large WP with shield depleters and an ionic disperser has a good chance of stopping an entire fleet in its tracks, and allowing a defense fleet to catch it.

PvK

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

Problem is, fast ships can normally just skip right past that range advantage WPs have to do tons of damage before the WPs get a chance to fight back, often destroying most, if not all, of the WPs before they can shoot.

40 ships is a small group as far as I am concerned. I think we are talking a totally different order of scale here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In my experience, WPs have never been anything more than an annoyance in the mid and late games. Only in the early game have they been a real threat.

[ October 16, 2003, 01:58: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">read that again, Fyron.

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

No, I've seen attacks by large fleets of max-speed ships with tons of shields. Massive Mount WP weapons usually get enough of a range advantage that not enough ships can wipe out many platforms before at least some shots get off. Again, the goal is not to be able to defeat a huge armada with WPs. The idea is to force the enemy to use relatively large fleets, and then to delay and slow the attacking armada so it can be intercepted with less damage done to planets.

PvK

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

I consider WPs a major asset to win any war. I allows me to mass my ships in attacks on the enemy while my worlds are relatively save from small intruders. In fact WPs did tip the tide for me in one major war.
My enemy, the Guild, had a economic advantage. They already had annihilated three other players fleets (my allies) on the western front. All that stand between the ultimate victory of the Guild was my fleet in the east that prevented him to stage a offensive in the west. However as time went on his fleets grow larger while I could not keep up the pace, neither could I afford any more ships. I retreated from my defence position the month he gave the attack order and my fleet escaped narrowly. The Guild attacked three major worlds, all packed with 25 WPs. In these battles he lost 30 of his 210 ships and every battle took a whole month. Meanwhile the remains of my allies fleets arrived in my space, joined my fleet and surprised the Guild right after they attacked my third world. In this battle the Guild fleet (over 35% XP) was beaten for the first time ever. My WPs did not only destroy 30 ships, they bought me the time I needed to consolidate my forces.
Its interesting how this war can give you an answer to the question what happens without WPs, too. My victories fleet now crossed the first two Guild systems (that had WPs) and massacred every planet in the Guild backyard (undefended by WPs) in Groups of 5 ships with a minesweeper each. Riots broke out on the Guild planets and the galactic war that had Lasted for 6 years ended with a total defeat of the Guild only 12 month after the first shots of my WPs were fired.

Edit: 6 years, i.e. 60 turns, not 56 years war.

[ October 18, 2003, 16:26: Message edited by: Mephisto ]

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Maybe the reason the Guild was able to take on four other players simultaneously was because he didn't squander his time building WPs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

I try to keep an open mind when im reading anything and this forum has certainly advanced my tactics and strategies by leaps and bounds i also read a terribly interesting story about a 56 year war...but more Importantly
1) WP supporters have made some good points and i think I won't be so quick to write of WPs in the future.
2) at the same time i've always agreed that their an economic waste and call me old school if you'd like but I've never seen a truly effective late game planet defense with a core of WPs (Im allowing room for sats and maybe even some mines)
All in All i think both views are right and just like any other aspect of your empire the choice is yours

Re: Intel Comms Mimic Question
 

It were 6 years of war, my fault. I usually build the WPs with base yards and build ships with the planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif