(N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Hi all mapmakers.

I need a map made with (Standard) FQM.
255 systems and plenty of planets, some ruins.
20 players placed manually evenly dispersed, preferabbly as far from eachother as possible.
All starting planets equal in size.

No hurry, take a week or some months if you need to.
Any inventive ideas are welcome but no game altering features (As RW & SW).

I plan to start a new Galactic combat when I'm killed off in Homeworld 2 and Adamant 009, unless I find any 20 player huge galaxy game started by any other host. This Galactic Combat will be open to all and not bearing the prefix (Newbie).

[ February 16, 2004, 14:29: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Count me in for that game.

What about using the very latest FQM? It is pretty!

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Could do, anything is possible at this moment.
It will propably be 48 hours and no gifts/trades (disabled) but all treaties availible.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

I would be interested in the game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I have learned quite abit from my current ongoing PBW games...

Maybe I could even make the map and then play the game... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Hrmmm... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

hey rutha i can do the map... send me an email..

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Thanx Tesco.
Will mail you when I get home from work (In another 25 hours or so...)

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

ive had fun so far with the curent galactic combat, even if the race I have taken over is prety pummeld...

so count me in!

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

I like the no trading/gifting. What about the other settings?

Did you decide on map type?

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">your kidding arent you?
or what do you do that requers you to work for 25hrs?

heh...

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">your kidding arent you?
or what do you do that requers you to work for 25hrs?

heh... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm a doctor.
Sometimes I start at morning (7.00 am) and works to (16.00pm), and then go on call (usually busy to 01.00AM next morning, get some sleep and get up time to time during the night. Then next day (07.00Am) to 16.15PM) normal work:
33 hours away from home not counting travel time...

(Don't get sick during nighttime.....)

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Tesco is doing the map.
Most other settings as in NGC3 I guess, haven't thought about it too much, still in the future.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Bump...

Just more encouragement for you to start a new game, Ruatha. I have been amazed with your running of NGC 3 and want a new big game to start.

Joachim

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

It's coming someday, I'd guess at the start of february.... Unless someone else want's to host it.
(I'll be gone some in january and don't want to start something before that).

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Hi Ruatha, how are the plans for NGC4? Still planned for Feb?

I would like to join as I really like the setup, and you are doing great as host. And I'm eager to prove that I'm able to make less silly mistakes than in NGC3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Yep, still planned for setting up in the beginning of Feb.
So Tesco: get a move on with the map!!

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

beginning of feb? damn! im gona be away, and I am not 100% certain how often i will be able to get to a computer...


ok there is only one thing for it!
ill have to go laptop hunting!

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

ok i will see if i still have the old email http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif and create the map for you tonight 10 hours from this post

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

NGC4? Oh well, that's a really serious temptation... just to get the chance to meet one of Roanon's "humble" (!!!) empires again would be worth joining, hehehe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Now Roanon, how about playing a religious race this time? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Hmmm, NGC1 was my very first PBW game. Since (~N)GC4 will be open to everyone, I may just have to play. I would love No Intel as setting though…

Gecko

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

you can add me also

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Hooray, Yippee
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">silly mistakes? You currently have the top score and hold an enviably stable position. Nice job.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Mostly beginner's luck.

And a lot of hard work. Next time I want it to be easy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm, tempting... in the unlikely event my tiny empire should win this game I will have a big target painted on me anyway, so I could practically choose religious without suffering any adverse effects...

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure, done that now.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

i cannot find the email... can you send it again

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Bump...

Start date? How is the map coming along?

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

The map is what I hear almost ready, Tesco has to place start positions and some finishing touches I belive.
I'm waiting for a letter this week or the beginning of next week that will tell me if I'll join as a player or only as host.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

yep i will mail it out tomorrow... i was just wondering if there was going to be ancient in the game... as if there is not i was going to lay down a serious layer of funk on the map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Just an update... Map is sent.

The map is designed using fqm 2.08

The map itself is set up with boarder wrapping so there are no cornors, or pure edges...

There are over 200 systems and 20 any starting locations evenly spread out over the map.

A few suprises are added. But nothing that is not unbalancing.

The map is designed for quick contact. You will meet up with another empire within the first 20 turns. Each empire is equally able to meet up with 6 to 8 empires within the first 30 to 40 turns.

When I designed the map.... I had to take in to conderation the size of the map and the number of players.

Since there are going to be 20 players and 200 systems I had to give each empire the ability to have a sphere of influence on 10 systems with overlaps on the boarders of each empire.

Since this is a large game I had two choices... Design a map where the opening stages of the game are long and system building could be at a medium stage on contact. Or have the map designed that the empires start to meet up when the tech levels and system infastructe was quite low.

Other factors that were very important was the quality of initial contact.

Most games are structured in such a way that you meet up with 1 empire and start a friendly relationship with them based on needs. This can be unfair to empires who wish to try it alone.

What I wanted to impliment was a way that each empire will meet up with 2 or 3 empires at the normal time that they meet up with one empire.

This inturn created the problem that I did not want all 2 or 3 empires to meet each other at the same time.

So I decided I had to look at the game in its 6 stages.
Beginning Game
Stage 1. Initial Building Alone
Stage 2. Initial Contact and Defining ones boarders
Middle Game
Stage 3. Finalize boarders and the beginning of boarder wars, alliance wars etc...
Stage 4. Stronger empires / alliances destroy the weaker empires alliances until the point when there is peace in the universe why they determine who will make the first move towards the end game.
End Game
Stage 5. The empires who survived the middle game move towards destroying the other empires.
Stage 6. Empires realise that the game is lost or won.


So with all that in mind. I decided which stages were enjoyed by the players.

Well Stage 1 is enjoyable by all... But if it streches out to long people lose interest in the game. Especially with 72 hour turn around
Stage 2. Everyone likes it... Every one is winning and the initial politics of the game is set up. This stage starts to peak the interest of the players for commitment to the game.
Stage 3. Is what I call the middle part of the game. The time when everyone thinks they can win the game. This stage also has an added bonus. It weeds out those who are not commited to the game long term as their empires are destroyed. This is also the idea area for game politics and great stories.
Stage 4. The great pause. This is a short stage before the end. Surviving empires still think they have a chance to survive and win the game. Players are now set in their game style for that game. The key here is to not drag this out too long as interest needs to be built quickly again to get all players back into the game.

Stage 5. This stage is another long stage. All empires move to take over the game. Politics and battles peak the players interest. Those who are victorous expand and expand. Those who die lose interest in the game.

Stage 6. A short stage. Those who are winning are interested and those who are losing do not wish to invest the time in the game anymore. This stage wraps up the game and must be short or the victory will be tainted.


So this is the thoughts that go into making a map.

I want stage one to be very quick. 10 to 15 turns max. Expansion must be in a sphere style for each empire if I want the initial contact to be between 2 or 3 empires for stage 2. If expansion is linear then each empire meets 1 empire and then there is a lull before they meet another empire. The key here is to have each empire meet 2 or 3 empires before turn 20 and within 3 turns. Also each empire should not meet the same empires. 1 common empire is good for setting up the first underlying plot for stage 3. So the max for stage one is 20 turns.

Stage 2. This should be drawn out over another 20 to 30 turns. By turn 30 each empire should have met 4 empires. By the end of this stage each empire should meet 8 to 10 empires. With common empires among each empire. This is very important. As it will force the players to not go hey your the first 3 people i met. Lets conquer the game. As each empire will have relationships with 8 to 10 other empires. So common goals will be displaced by empire goals. And empires will have equal footing on space give or take a system or two. Also empires are not stuck on the cornors or edges...Sphere expansion.

Stage 1 and 2 should be set in a way that those who expand like crazy are held in check by contacts from all sides. Which helps bring game balance for stage 3.

Stage 3. I want to drag this out 30 to 40 turns. It is the reason I play PBW. The nail bitting turns. Where game actions dictate alliances and wars. Each turn something is happening to affect your empire directly or indirectly. Those who give up or just quit are removed in a way that does not affect the balance of the game. As many empires will be able to grab a part on keeping with the sphere expansion style.

Stage 4 the let down. You just lose some interest here... Not much going on for a few turns... So you do the automating stuff with building ships and troops etc... 10 turns hopefully due to the fact that 60% of the empires are still kicking

Stage 5. Sphere expansion begins again. As each empire/alliance determines who is weaker on their boarders. Chain reaction wars begin. And empires expand and are crushed. At the end of this stage 25 to 30% of the empires are left. Say another 40 turns here.


Stage 6. Your 120 to 140 turns into the game. You have spent many hours trying to win this game or enjoy it. Now the rap up. Say 20 to 30 turns. Only the winners really care. So the game can end quickly.


Well this is what I thought about in creating this map. I hope the game goes like that.

The key is to keep as many players interested in the game up to stage 6. If we were in a perfect pbw world. All players would play each turn and enjoy it. But were not. As soon as some one realizes that their losing they determine that the time and effort is better spent on other games. It is the nature of the PBW beast. And also very understandable. And this loss of interest must not destroy the upcoming stages. That to me is the key to desiging maps. For the map is the background of the story. It is what keeps it all together. And the map must not cheat a player out of a chance to enjoy the game and the enjoyment of playing against other players. For most players do not care if they win or lose. It is just the quality of their victory or defeat that matters.

It is a great map. I spent some time on it. So I hope everyone enjoys the map. And understands what I felt was the way to make GC4 a fantastic game for those players involved with many story lines and sub plots.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Ruatha I will host the game for you if you want.... You can set it up and then let me take over as the owner.... That way you can play.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Rutha, have you decided on points ect... I will get an empire set up asap.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Hi.
I'm waiting for a letter from the Army.
If they need me for 18 weeks during the fall this year and spring next year I won't participate as a player. If they don't I'll participate as a player.
The letter should come this week or the beginning of next week.

Whoow, seems like you've really put a lot of effort and thought into this one Tesco, if I play I'd be glad if you host.


Ok 2000 points. No ancient trait.
There will be some limitations to trade and treaties.
More info will follow tomorrow.

I'll propably set it up on PBW tomorrow.
I want to make out a full intro about rules and avices before I start taking players.

Such as The rules for the Old NGC3 for example

I think it's better to have everything settled beforehand.
It might seem as much but it's not really, just common sense put into words.

[ February 04, 2004, 20:33: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

The upcoming patch sounds interesting, would it be worth waiting for it before starting this game?

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

That depends on when it's coming out...

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

*bump*

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Um... Hi, I'm STIM007.

I've played alittle SV4G but never a PBEM game, I was reading the other NGC topics and they looked like really cool games to join and play!

The only other person I know here is Se5a from another game I play with him. (Hi Se5a!)

So... Um... Can a newbie play? I have it patched to 1.87 and thats the only thing I have.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

You're welcome, 1.84 is the current patch, so no problem...

Beware that playing time will be atleast a year, propably more...

[ February 07, 2004, 09:24: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

A *real* newbie, aka new victim, quick, Ruatha, grab him before he can escape ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Welcome to the game STIM007. If you need help don't hesitate to ask in-game or in the forum. Just don't believe anything they will tell you about me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . Only problem might be, as Ruatha already mentioned, this is an exceptionally long and big game, that many players with such a huge galaxy is not the normal standard. NGC3 is running nearly a year now and still not finished. Other SEIV games run on PBW are usually shorter and with less people.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Yea thanks for the heads up. I only have a month or two at best, not a whole lot of time to play.

Maybe I could find a smaller game? Anyone know of any that I could join?

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Hi, this game sounds like it should be a lot of fun. Mind if I join? I'm pretty much still a newbie, although I'm in about 7 other games on PBW already, so I do have a little experience.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

The Pace on NGC4 will be faster than NGC3 only 48 hours instead of 72, but I still project more than a years playing time...

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure. That's about what I've played, but I've taken more time on me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Should not be a problem. NGC3 was my first PBW, and I still manage to compete with my humble empire. People here are very nice to newbies. Or maybe my daily offerings to the gods of luck helped http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 07, 2004, 21:11: Message edited by: Roanon ]

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

Just signed up... Intro'd myself on the forum. Sounds like fun!

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

damn I made the map with delux. Not standard. Whats the difference ??? except for all those ring worlds http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Ok New Map

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

I dont mind deluxe, especially if there are not too many damaging warp points.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

DeLuxe Mod requires all players to download it, and to download and install the Image Mod. Standard FQM is easier, only the host needs it at the moment he is creating the map.
I don't mind downloading and installing (in fact I already have), but it IS another obstacle - as with 20 people, there will be at least one having some problems installing it...

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

i am redoing the map in standard.... I do not mind as I look foward to reading about the map. I will have it done tonight.

And I am very sorry about that.

Re: (N)GC4 - Game Story Thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No real hurry, still misses some players to start.

I won't participate as a player as I'll be away 8 weeks in the fall and 10 weeks in the winter for reserve officer training.

And I'm really sorry for it!
I wanted to play this map and try out being a religious race!!
After looking at the map now that I've decided not to play I was even more tempted, there's alot of thought and work plowed into this map!
It should make for a fun game.

[ February 10, 2004, 19:53: Message edited by: Ruatha ]