Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

List 'em here, and get Aaron to see them!

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

define objects please

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Anything that can be given abilities. Components, facilities, hulls, etc.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Ability for multiple damage types on a single weapon. Instead of only hurts engines how about only hurts engines + skips armor + half damage to shields.

I have a list a mile long but I will just do that one for now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Want to see how many on my list get duplicated by others.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

% cloaking chance, % penatrating hit chance. ability to design ship sizes. ability to tow ships and bases and stuff. decimals. not just whole numbers like it is now. stuff that returns a bonus based on how far away the second thing is. like a palace that improves 40% -1% per secter. or whatever distance will be in. or a shield booster that boosts sheilds 100 points -2.5 points per secter but only in the same solar system as the booster.

cheese. well, ok, i just threw that in there to be in character.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

I will have only two suggestions for now:

* Increased/decreased accuracy over long range. The accuracy of a weapon could decrease by 15% every sector in the case of a decrease, and by 5% when it is an increase. Or perhaps being able to set the hit chance for every range.

* Broader range of damage (and its counterpart): that would make the damages done by such a weapon less reliable and fixed. Say, an extreme weapon which does damage like 10-60. On the other hand, a "reliable" weapon would have a damage range of 30-35 for instance.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yeah. worldship ability.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Ok, components that have an affect based on how many are in place, and for how long.

Basically, instead of stellar manipulation components that take years to build, then one turn to create a planet, star, warp point; you build several smaller, less expensive components and keep them safe in the area for a while to produce what you want.

No more, repair the component and do it again next turn.

Oh, and a repair cost flag. Most things would stay repairable for free, but a small or large cost would be added to, again, stellar manip. components.

Listen, I'm not saying this ideas are how it has to be. I'd just like these variables available for modding purposes.

I concede that the way things are now sacrifices "realism" in exchange for a set of game mechanics that are good for AI characters and turn a day PBW.

Think of how the Proportions mod really changed the game, and how much more it could do.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Here's a few:

Prerequisite Components. For example, in order to have Quantum Engines, Quantum Torpedos, or Quantum Shields, you need to have a Quantum Generator on your ship.

Percent Required Tags. (Applies to Hulls - like what is currently done with Carriers and FighterBays). For example, in order to build a Missile Frigate, at least 50% of your components need to have the "Missiles" tag.

"Vehicle Type" and "Weapon Target" (components.txt) - use booleans instead of lists.

Self Destruct. Blow up your ship in order to do damage to all adjacent ships. (Ideally you would need some sort of SelfDestruct Strategy - ie under what circumstances do your ships blow themselves up? at x% hitpoints? When surrounded?)

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Two words: Stackable Mounts! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

All abilities should be modular and customizable, with as little forced in the hard-code as possible. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

This may be buried in someone else's post ... but to make it clear ... some randomness in the to hit and damage rating of weapons would be a nice addition.

Plenty of good stuff here, cloaking and other bonuses by range. Anticloak sensor by range.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

</font>

• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">detrimental Facility effects that are not easily combated.
  
  lowers happiness of planet, all planets in sector, all planets in system
  
  lowers value, same options
  
  lowers ground combat bonuses for attacker or defender, same for weapon platforms, same options
  
  Let them stack or "only best counts", but it should not be possible to resolve any number of these by simply including one facility that provides the opposite effect. Perhaps "only best counts" once for positive and once for negative.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ship components that generate research, intel, or allow carried population to count for something.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Weapon ability that destroys it on use.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Set the different weapon damage types like in CivII, an array of bits, so that most can be combined together.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Componets that reuqire the destruction of certain types of cargo before they work (I want soul cannons!).</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">ECM or CS abilities on seekers.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Abilities range and fire rate on troop weapons really do stuff.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Extend the possible range on seekers. I would liek to be able to mod slow seekers that will follow a ship around for the enitre duration of combat.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Boarding and troop-drops from several combat squares distance. Give the poor trekies their transporters.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Planets and other sector objects that can move, randomly or whatever</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ruins that do more than just give tech, like destroy population, or maybe the whole colony, or change the conditions or resource values of the planet.</font>
• <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Planets that give bonuses to population growth or research or combat or happiness or whatever, ruins should be able to change or add this too. Maybe that's the only way to get this.</font>

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

[ October 22, 2003, 13:07: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope that was just an example. Those things (probably) have nothing in common except the fact they all have the word Quantum on their titles; and Quantum can mean lots of things.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Destroyed on Use for Warp points. ie once you go through the warp point dissapears. Great for modding FTL type movement.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Well they all use Quantum Power http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
(gets shot with a Quantum Beam http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

and you'll need a quantum mechanic
(he started it!)

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, just a quantumfied example of something someone might want to mod...

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Limits to repair: You that can only repair listed comp families.

Auto regenerating component, althogh the repair limits above may be able to simulate this with a second component.

I like the idea of SM taking a long time instead of being so expensive.
Being able to specify stellar requirements would be great. Modders should be able to choose if they want a star, planet, asteroids, storm, warp point, empty sector as a requirement.

Being able to build large ships and bases in a similar way to RW/SW.

Different types of supplies and components that can convert them: reactors use fuel to generate energy used by most components.

Fully customizable damage types
I want to define how they skip or affect shields or armor, what components it can hit ect. Modders may be able to create weapons very different from stock weapons.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And...

Self Repair: a component that can only repair damage to the ship it is on.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Andres said:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly! It would be great to be able to list all the component families that the weapon can damage. Maybe have component family numbers like "C116, C1009, C12045, etc" and facility family numbers like "F112, F1290, etc" and then you can define all the family types that the weapon can hit (just list em off, both components and facilities).

Definitely need to have components with multiple weapons' effects.

Spoon said:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And you could have a "percent required tag" on a ship, and then on the next line the modder could list all the families that would fulfill the tag.

[ October 24, 2003, 00:24: Message edited by: jimbob ]

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

and list the ones it can't hit, in case that is smaller.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

i like cheeze 's % cloak.

I would also like all objects to be able to use all abilities ( with in reason ). That way as a map maker i can make some really really cool maps. and have some interesting planets and warp points

The idea of dependencies would be quite neat if it became an actual field

Dependency= 0 ( for no dependenices )
Dependency1 = 21 ( name of other family member that is needed to use this device )

or some thing like that. That would be really really cool and easy to track if it was easy like that.

You could also use these on the vechile.txt file ( using se4 to talk se 5 )

And I for one would like to be able to set objects for when they will be availbe for use.

Ie. This warp point will not turn up until turn 20.

This planet will explode on turn 55

This first generation engine will only work for 25 turns then it cannot be repaired.

This Plasma missle will only work for 1 battle.

And another cool idea would be not just the repair ablility. But one where you have to replace the parts. So you must go to a special space base or planet yards to get them replaced.

And yes. All objects and abilities should be mod able. Not hard coded.

And part of the SE5 game should be a good interface for moding. ( Aaron should talk to David G and Sj on this )

And perhaps in the game generation a nice big screen where you can quickly click what abilities and objects you want in a game. ( turn them off either via family or individual object ) And be able to quickly adjust their value for the game. ( this stuff could be hard coded in the game as you would not need to create a mod as it would be game vars ) So in a game I could go hey I want to increase just the cost of engines and weapons to research nothing else so i go and do it. And I want to remove the DUC so I do it. And I want to decrease the damage a PPB does so I do it. THen I accept these changes as part of the game set up. Now that would be cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

cheese hasn't posted here. that was me.

yes, there's someone named cheese on the forums. no, he isn't me.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">For that matter, components that get destroyed when the ship goes through a warp point. I can't think of a reason for it myself, but I'm sure some modder will...

Remember, when in doubt, stick it in - let the modders' sort it out. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly! It would be great to be able to list all the component families that the weapon can damage. Maybe have component family numbers like "C116, C1009, C12045, etc" and facility family numbers like "F112, F1290, etc" and then you can define all the family types that the weapon can hit (just list em off, both components and facilities).

Definitely need to have components with multiple weapons' effects.

Spoon said:

Quote:

Percent Required Tags.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And you could have a "percent required tag" on a ship, and then on the next line the modder could list all the families that would fulfill the tag. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm, what about components that can only be repaired by certain repair bays/facilities? Can't get that super-dohickey fixed just anywhere - you gotta take it to a specialist...

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

The ability to make tradeable components!! Then instead of buying the whole ship, you can just sell (or buy) individual components and plop 'em onto your ready built ship.

A mount that makes an object self-destruct. So when the enemy tries to analize your ship, that particular object destroys itself (but not the ship) = non-analizable components. Maybe even the object self-destructs if the ship is boarded?

Derelicts that can be taken over by the first player to attack it with boarding parties. The player can then scrap/use/analize the ship gained... would be particularily interesting if there were colonists on board in "suspended animation"!!

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Don't know if it has been mentioned yet, but fully moddable Wormhole abilities. (example, specific ship sizes to enter, timed opening and closing {opens every X turns etc), one-way, multiple damage types, random exit, slowly closes so that ships must be smaller and smaller to enter, and most interesting: Mass dependent, ie, max tonnage of ships combined to go thru in one turn, or it 'shorts out' for few turns.)

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

random extrance - combine with random exit for wandering wormholes.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Here are some ideas from a brainstorm - the good with the bad:

First, for clarity, here are the definitions:
Attributes are things you'll find in the components.txt files, such as "Family" or "Weapon Reload Rate".
Abilities are the things you'll find in abilities.txt such as "Cloak Level" or "Movement Bonus".
Examples aren't necesarily something I'd like to see in the game, and are just there to help clarify.

Stackable - Unit Attribute - Value that states how many of a particular unit can be in a stack. "0" would be no limit (or rather whatever the game max is...). Mostly applies to sats, fighters, and drones. And giant robots.

Mutually Exclusive - Component Attribute - Component A can't be put on a ship that has a component from Family x. For example, you can't use Turbo-Atheism Cannons if you have the Religious Talisman.

Create Storm - Component Ability - It would be nice if you could specify which type of storm you want to make - either by which component you build, or by being given a menu when you use it.

Shield Projector - Component Ability - A component that provides shields for all friendly ships in its sector.

Cloaking Field - Component Ability - A component that cloaks all friendly ships in a sector

Dimensional Shifter - Component Ability - can "shift" to a different dimension, so the ship can't attack or be attacked. Works like cloaking in that it can be turned on and off. Can be thwarted by other ships that have Dimensional Shifting components, by something that prevents Dimensional Shifting in a system (or sector), or by weapons that can specifically damage "shifted" ships.

Drain Supplies - Component Ability - Either a weapon that drains supplies, or damages shields only and drains supplies, and/or a component that drains the supplies of all enemy ships in the sector.

Transfer Supplies - Component Ability - Same as Drain Supplies above, but transfers the amount drained to it's own supply total.

Image Projector - Component Ability - When in combat, projects an image of itself, which dissipates when fired on. The image itself does not attack.

Disable Ship - Component Ability - An attack that completely disables a ship for a short period of time.

Variable Damage to Armor - Damage Type - same as what we have with shields... half damage to armor, double damage to armor, etc

Piercing Damage - Damage Type - damage that pierces armor and/or shields. For example, shield piercing armor would deal x% of its damage to shields, and the rest to armor/internals. Armor Piercing would deal x% to armor and the rest to internals.

Reflective shields - Component Ability - shields that have a % chance to reflect any energy attack for no damage. Maybe a small chance to reflect the attack back on the shooter.

Tracking sensors - Component Ability - a ship's Offense (chance to hit) goes up by x% per combat round.

Reduce Range - Damage Type - an attack that reduces the range of the targeted ship's weapons.

Warp Capable - Hull Attribute - a boolean that states whether a ship may use warpoints or not. I suppose it could work as a component attribute as well.

The following are an alternate idea for how warp points might work. I actually like the instaneous travel time that is in the current game, but these changes might be neat to find in a mod...

Warp Time Calculation - Game Setting - A way to mark Warp Points so they are not necessarily instantaneous... Some values this setting could use are:
- Instant (like what we have now)
- Distance (time it takes to get through a warp point is determined by the distance to the exit. There could be a corresponding Distance Multiplier value so this can be tweaked in mods.)
- Assigned (Each warp-point has a (usually ) randomly given value that determines how long it takes. see Warp Time below.
- Random (it's random)

Warp Time - Stellar Ability - the amount of time it takes a ship going through this warp point to reach the other side. The value would be the amount of extra turns it takes - default would be 0.

Warp Speed - Component Ability - If you are using non-instant warp times, this value would state how many turns you cut the warp-time by. For example, a Warp Engine with Warp Speed of 2 would cut travel time through a warp-point by two turns.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You should be able to mod the damage type in ways like this. If necessary in a mod, you should be able to make a weapon that skips shields with low phasing level, does 123% damage to higher phased shields, something similar with armor, drains supplies and destroys talismans.

[quote]Reflective shields - Component Ability - shields that have a % chance to reflect any energy attack for no damage. Maybe a small chance to reflect the attack back on the shooter.[quote]
Not all lost shots should be harmless, there should be a chance of hitting an unintended target friendly or enemy.

Warp time
Maybe a distance in sectors instead or in addition to a fixed time.
Another problem would be how do you access a ship that is in within a wormhole/hyperspace. Can you change course or give orders

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great point. I'll just rephrase it here:

Multiple Weapon Damage Types - Component Attribute - weapons should be able to have multiple damage types, such as Skips Shields AND Double Damage to Armor.

Variable Damage to Shields - Weapon Damage Type - Rather than using "Quad Damage to Shields" just assign a percent value here that the damage will by multiplied by. Should be an entry for all shield types (ie, Phased, non-phased, all shields, etc)

Variable Damage to Armor - as above, but with armor.

Variable Damage to Internals - as above, but with internals (ie, non-armor) components

and in the same vein:

Randomized Damage - Weapon Damage Type - rather that have damage be a set amount, give it a range. Whatever value is assigned here sets the range. For example, if you had a weapon that did 50 pts damage, and it had a Random Damage value of 10, actual damage would be between 40 and 60 (ie, 50 +/- 10)

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Critical hit - % chance to multiply damage by a %. could make sniper weapons that are useless unless you get a critical hit.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">and something that lowers it. could attach secod ability to engines.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Stellar manipulation components that can change any type of system into any other type of system. So we can turn comet, stellar core fragment, organic infestations, etc into normal systems and back and forth in any desired combination. Also, we need some sort of component to create planets when there are no asteroid fields, so that we can fully reverse the process when a system is destroyed and turned into a system type that doesn't have planets or asteroids.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

would have to be very expensive or people would be making planets left and right.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

I'd like to see components that consumed cargo every time they were used. For example:

Shipborne construction yards which turn a type of Cargo (call them 'Crated' Fighters) into workable fighters. So you build crated fighters en-masse at your homeworlds, then ship them out to the front for assembly (obviously crated fighters take less cargo space per unit).

Engines that consume 'Fuel' cargo. Weapons (i.e. missiles) that consume 'Ammo' cargo. Resupplying a ship can be done at a resupply base, or by having it link up with a 'fuel tender'/'ammo collier', and transferring the cargo.

Can this be done already? I think it can't, but I'm still impressed with what people mod.

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

ther's a person named Batman on the forum? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

must...resist...temptation...to...make...bad...jok es...

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

Stackable Shipyards, ie, if I want to build a base on a wormhole I could have 4 shipyard ships combine themselves to get it done faster (or even if a portion of each shipyard could be added to the whole project....).

Re: Abilities for objects in SE5!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Then what we need are several types of supplies (moddable so you may add as needed).
Here you have some examples.

1-Fuel: used by engines and reactors
2-Energy: used by most ship systems and energy weapons
3-Spare parts/raw materials: used by repair bays and shipyards.
4-Ammo: used by balistic weapons and seekers, maybe an specific type for most weapons (thoug there may be a few that share the same type of ammo)
5-Foodstuff and consumables: used by the crew and population on a ship

Some components allow to convert supplies between specific types: e.g. reactors fuel > energy
And there may be specific componets to hold each (tanks, batteries, etc.)

All types of supplies can be transfered between ships as cargo.

A quantum reactor may still generate limitless energy but you will still run out of some types of supplies and will need to resupply or have them ferried.

I like the idea that manteinance cost (at least most of it) is actually the cost of the supplies the ships consume.

There are specialized factories building each type, but you don't need to micro-manage all distribution, like in resource extraction all you need is a space port. Then all you need to do is take your ship to a resupply depot and as long as you have enough in your empire stockpiles, your ship will be resupplied.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I actually want SE3-like construct/repair queues, and my good old multiple SY bases with multiple queues.
But it would be interesting to be able to build large ship/bases in a similar way to ring/sphere worlds: multiple yards making parts that are then assembled into the finished ship.


PDC I don't like PDC not able to shoot at ships. I understand weapons that can't shoot at fighters, or at least that have no chance of hitting them, but what about weapons that can shoot fighters but not capital ships.
What we need is a better scaling of weapon damage, PDC can shoot anything, but it only does significant damage to something small and fragile like a fighter or a missile. And its neglectable for large ships.