France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

Looks like the French are rethinking their use of WMD. While this is in line with US thinking, it means that there will be more reasons to use them.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Edit: Typo

[ October 29, 2003, 11:23: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

An additional note: the French Presidency denied to have changed its use of WMD recently, in response to the article by Liberation mentioned. However, there were no words about a possible change to come later on. So I would tend to believe France is actually reconsidering its use of WMD.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

Basically, the new USA and French policy spells the doom to the non-prolifaration treaty. You are no longer safe if you refrain from nukes production. From now on, any state must have nukes as a mean of a deterrant. Very sad indeed.

___

P.S. I can't spell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ October 28, 2003, 21:59: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

terrorist countries would have built them anyway.

[ October 28, 2003, 21:59: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Terrorist countries ? What are they ? Is USA one ?

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

well, the countries which throw disedents into pLastic chipers are certainly on the list.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A few offensive devices are nothing more than terror weapons. And the cost of building the first few is tremendous. Also the device itself is only part of the problem; delivery systems require an equal if not greater amount of effort. Crude ballistic missiles require huge warheads to overcome their inaccuracy. And a small country would have great difficulty in supporting the infrastructure need to build these high yield weapons. Aircraft delivery requires the ability to penetrate foreign airspace. But, the possession of a few weapons can be a very good defense option if your foes happen to be close by.

During the cold war, a lot of effort was put into killing these devices in place. You will remember this as the first strike options that used to be discussed. If both the US and USSR felt they would be able to take out the majority of the others ground based weapons, then I think a third rate country would be hard pressed to make good use of their stock. Not to mention what would be inbound soon after they launched.

I think that the delivery systems are what need to be limited. This will allow for regional defense, but limit the offensive capabilities.


It should also be noted that a weapon delivered by shipping container or truck would have a greatly reduced damage yield. These weapons achieve greatest effect only when detonated at high altitude.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

#@%^&*# just saw the typo in the title…..Oh well, can’t edit it.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

Good to see the French do actually have a backbone about something. Maybe they are having second thoughts about some of these little countries they do business with. Why does Yemen need Scuds? Why does N. Korea need a nuke? Why does Iran and Libya need nuclear power plants? Now all we have to do is dismantle some of our own down to a reasonable level.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

I am always uneasy about a "reasonnable level of nuclear weapons". Would the ability to destroy only 2 or 3 times the planet reasonnable enought ?

Sigh.

And I am still very uneasy about what appear to be a change of military doctrine. The most important lessons of gulf war2/North Korea negociations seems to be "without nukes, you're nothing".

Will the world become a safer place ? I wonder.

[ October 29, 2003, 10:48: Message edited by: Unknown_Enemy ]

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

I agree with Thermo - the warhead is only one part of the equation, you need the means to deliver it. But if you are a third-rate country and paranoid enough, you can plant the devices at the most likely points of invasion to detonate them under an invading army.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

Here is an interesting Side note..as you can see by my Signature I am in the USMC. I also happen to be assigned at the moment to USCENTCOM (2 years now). The point of me saying this is that although we dont trust the French enough to let them in our building unescorted (only the Brits, Aussies, and Kiwis are really allowed free reign) I have had many a talk with French Military Officers. Generally speaking the French Military is VERY dissatisfied with their Governments Policies on just about everything. The French Military is for the most step in step with the US view on "Things"

By the way..dont take this as French Bashing..just as an informative bit f observation.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not even the spanish ?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Current french position on international matters are not only plainly stupid but dangerous. Don't take me wrong, I still think US policy will create more terrorism than they will root out, but there was less nocive way to say "bad idea" (As Canada did).

As a side note, you'll notice that it has always been the gaullists (say republican in USA) that were american basher (getting out of nato, saying "get lost" to bush....) and the socialists (translate as the democrats) that were pro US (Mitterand, a socialist president supporting Reagan to put pershing in Europe).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There has been none in this board, and it is indeed a credit to put on all members.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not even your friendly Canadian neighbors to the north??

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

Don't see why not. There are Canadians inside Cheyeanne Mt. NORAD base. I wonder if they get a beer break?

Does anyone know if there is still a RAF detachment in Omaha? I saw some Vulcan Bombers back in the late 80's while on a road trip through.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

Sorry I forgot about the Canucks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

As for the Spanish....Im sure they have someone here...but never see them...but nope only ones given free access..(By that I mean they get to walk the halls Un-Escorted and eat in the cafeteria) Are the Brits, Ausssies, Kiwis, and Canucks. Dont get me wrong now..at the General or Admiral Level they are pretty much Un-Escorted except at that level they are escorted everywhere by there own Aids and our Aids..if you get my Drift.

AS you can imagine there are areas where NO-ONE is allowed...even us...come to think of it...hardly ever see anyone going in these areas..and NEVER see them come out!! Hmmm..just WHAT is on the other side of that door? Warp Point? Man Eating Crocigators? Twins?

I Like Twins! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Oh yeah..someone rate me..I'm desperate for attention cause we didnt have any Monkey Butlers growing up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

oh, behind that door? it's.urk

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

every body should loose their nuclear devices but at the same time make a pact that if any country starts to make nuclear weapons, they would go in together and just destroy the facilities. That way nobody needs nukes to deter anybody else. ut this is probably an utopia

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

might work.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

But then you get to the point where one country says, 'destroy your nukes first' and the other replies, 'no, you destroy yours first'.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

one from each country, destroyed at the same time. but how do you know when all are destroyed?

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

Well then the US would end up with lots of extra nukes after everyone else destroyed their's... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

%

% is a good answer.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

I'm sure ALL governments would keep a few hidden away incase of 'emergencies' and then we would still have the problem, only now it is a Cold War again.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

In a perfect world we would all get rid of our nuclear warheads in a verifilable way...Only to have nothing to destroy an oncoming asteroid a few months later!


"Why do you have a gun in your shower?" "Did you ever see Psycho?"...CHiPs

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

This has nukes, france, and asteroids:

http://home.tiscali.nl/multicom/DaSchop/endofworld.swf

[ November 03, 2003, 20:14: Message edited by: spoon ]

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

I don't any nation that has them getting rid of all its nuclear weapons, maybe a reduction in force, but not completely. As a strategic deterrant, nukes (and more specifically, MIRV tipped ICBMs and ballistic submarines) are too valuable to give up completely. Mind you, they are expensive to keep, so getting rid of a few would not be that big of an issue.

Re: France rethinks nuclear deterrent
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There is one and very commendable example: South Africa. It had nukes ~20 yeras ago but voluntarily get rid of them. For that, I salute them and wish the best of luck against Australia next weekend ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif