What really P***** me off!!!
 

The one thing that absolutely drives me fricking bonkers is when a ally goes from being a strong ally to an instand enemy all in one turn. THAT REALLY needs to be addressed in SE V.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

You talking an AI or a person?

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

The AI.

I am sick of having a partnership with an Ai with brotherly relations one turn and the next they are obliterating my ships and planets. No warning, no reason.

Intel is turned off so Intel is not the cause. Mega evil empire is turned off and really doesn not apply here. There was no reason for the Federation to turn on me and do what the AI did.

For once I would like to play a game where the f**king Ai does not declar war upon me the instant it meets me or break its treaties on a whim. It makes for piss poor playing and really turns me off to the game.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

Yah. I have to admit that that is my biggest problem with the AI as well. On a side note I have found that if you only go upto Military Alliances and ignore Partnership proposals the AI tends to backstab you at least a little less, but I might just be fooling myself. Maybe it has something to do with Partnerships allowing the AI to see every little thing you do that might possibly anger it?

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

You are right the game’s AI has a serious anger management problem when dealing with diplomacy. I also think that the warp points don’t help the AI anger problem because they force the player to do too many things that raise the AI anger level. I had a look at the Federation_AI_Anger File may be changed the rate at with anger naturally decreases over time might help a little bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

I tried that once and just ended up with a bunch of races that were brotherly and at war with me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

it's been mentioned that the AI's attitude toward you counts for nothing.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

I don't think you have to wait for SE V to change this. By editing the AI anger and politics file you can make the AI remain a loyal ally. How was the mood of the AI before he declared war? If it was fiendly it is the politics file you should change, if he was angry, it is the anger file.
On the other hand what you saw is not unrealistic: just think of world war II Germany and Soviet Union.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

atrocities, at Last someone who understands me. reason i dont play TDM, and i dont play standard due to lack of uniqueness/creativity/challenge. in fact, i play PBW only now, because of that sole reason. someone spam me with reminders, i should finish my Taera Gold AI, thats some AI to annoy you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif try getting a partnership with THEM...

[ November 01, 2003, 07:34: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

seriously, SE is in serious need of a semi-rp mod. of course, winner players will just kill everyone, and it'll be easier, but you know what i mean.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">???? you are not suggesting that Hitler and Stalin had a partnership and brotherly feelings towards each other before Germany attacked the Soviet Union, are you?

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

The solution should be quite easy. My AIs shouldn't show this behaviour. It works like this:

1.) Look if this line is true "Get Angry Over Allied Colonizable Planets".

2.) If yes, look here "Percentage of Allied Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger". That's how many planets will cause anger for the AI.

3.) The anger value is in the anger.txt, here "Per Attack Location".

4.) Now look in the politics.txt at the line "Declare War Base Anger Level".

If you go to a Partnership with the AI it can see all your planets and starts to calculate the anger. If the value in 4.) is low and the number of planets as targets high enough you can bring the AI to war in a single turn.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">???? you are not suggesting that Hitler and Stalin had a partnership and brotherly feelings towards each other before Germany attacked the Soviet Union, are you? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The USSR and Germany are said to have signed a secret pact of non-aggression at these times. (Not quite a partnership obviously) But their relationship was far from being brotherly at any rate.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Another thing that is really really pissing me off is the fact that my bonuses are working against me in a negative mannor rather than a possitive one.

My race has a ENHANCED happiness with a good cultural trait that does not effect my populations happiness at all.

I have UPC III's in all of my systems and INTEL turned off. (No intel means no alien intervention) I am at war with no one, yet nearly all of my worlds are rioting for no appearant reason.

I mean this in a kind way, I am about fed up.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How you figured this out I will never know, but thank you for posting it.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

I am just utterly ticked off about this rioting issue for no reasons. I did nothing during the set up of the race to cause this. Intel is off, and I am at war with no one. I have UPC III's in all of my systems.

It is like my bonuses are working agianst me. I have Enhanced bonuses for happiness, mineral, farm, and resource production and for some f**king reason all of these are working against me horribly.

I am fed up and must take a long break from this game before I unistall it.

Cya all later.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

Is it possible you selected the neutral happiness type by accident when you set up your empire?

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It has been mentioned but I do not think it is quite accurate, at least not if taken literally. The AI attitude can give you some indication of how things are progressing in your diplomatic relations with that AI. I have never had a Brotherly AI declare War on me - they may become Brotherly during the course of a long slow War without ending the War, but that is different. Similarly, I have never had a Murderous AI agree to treaties with me - although even a Partner may become Murderous after the treaty is made, and may then either break the treaty or not. A Brotherly AI does not refuse your gifts, nor does a Murderous AI accept them.

I am using Brotherly and Murderous as the extreme examples, but the in-between levels are still not "nothing" - they give you an indicator of which way the AI's temper is moving, so that you can try to bribe them or at least have some idea which way they may be going in the future.

I am somewhat confused by some of the things that cause the AI attitude levels to move up and down. For example, in a current game I have found that even when I immediately duck out of a neutral system after making first contact, and have no further contact with them except for giving them gifts and offering treaties or trades, every single one of the neutrals I have met has gotten progressively more angry with me until they are all Murderous. I don't get it - they cannot come out of their system to see my colonies, they aren't seeing any of my ships because I have pulled my ships out of the system - what is ticking them off? (They are not xenophobes, I checked.) Is it my breath? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

SpaceBadger

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

It is probably because you can go through wormholes and they can't. They're just jealous. Don't let them judge you!

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

i think the nuetralls view you as MEE.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or Bloodthirsty. Either of them get angry when you do things like sign treaties and colonize planets. It is generally a bad idea to take either of them, ever. It is easy to have jubilant pop on all worlds with Peaceful, even when being a brutal warmonger.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Possible, and if I did, ................ me not be happy.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

The problem that everyone is dancing aorund here is the simplistic AI. It's got a single linear scale of how much it 'likes' or 'dislikes' you and some randomizing factors that make it jump the tracks occasionally. Not at all realistic.

At the very least we need an AI with two 'scales' one of "like/dislike" and another of "fear/non-fear". So, if you are really powerful you might be offered a treaty by the AI simply because they are afraid of you. This sort of treaty is likely to go 'poof' if your own military strength suffers a setback, of course. But if you can see the two Ratings (they ought to both be available just as the single 'attitude' is now) you can guess why you have been offered the treaty and plan accordingly.

Ideally, of course, we ought to have some sort of 'cultural ties' that also grow stronger with time and make good alliances (not 'fear' alliances) difficult to just throw away. Even when war breaks out between two empires with a long history of good relations the AI ought to be smart enough to try to keep it a 'limited' war for just one particular objective, not turn it into an instant campaign of genocide.

Of course, there also ought to be completely different types of treaties with widely varying terms. The rigid linear scale of treaties is also annoying.

[ November 01, 2003, 19:25: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

There is already a modifier for the relative strength of an empire, for example this line: "Propose Treaty Anger Modifier For Percent Stronger Player". There are many more in the politics file. But I agree, the AI still acts highly artificial.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">An Artificial Intelligence acting artificial? My word!
Heh, yeah, the political interactions do need improved. Maybe if we had an advisor that told us how our actions were making others angry, we could change our actions. A diplo advisor.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

I was way to tired Last night to be posting. Sorry about my outbursts.

I am having an issue with my race starting the game as indifferant and never raising hirer than that. Like Geo said it is most like a fouled up setting and most likely my fault.

I agree with what has been said, the Ai does need help in the political/diplomacy area.

Right now one of the largest draw backs to single player is the fact that once the AI declares war upon you, it never changes despire its mood. You are always at war from that point forward.

I am a big advocate for improvement here and it is nice to read that many of you are of like mind regarding this subject.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

Atrocities,your wrong - this is the way the current AI's are set up. The AI is very linear, but the settings allow for some flexibility. It is possible to make the AI get a treaty again, just i assume that most modders dont do that.
There is natural increase, and effects of combats (win/lose/stall. lose usually decreses the most)

SUGGESTION - make AI's that do NOT get angry over planets, thats plain stupid if they all do

[ November 02, 2003, 22:57: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

I was wrong about what Taera?

And please don't answer in large letters.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And sorry about large letters, just wanted to draw attention.

EDIT: just to clarify, in the few AI's ive done i payed a lot of attention to the *_ai_politics.txt file, so i have some knowledge in that area.

[ November 02, 2003, 22:58: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

I am an idiot. No no, its true, I am an idiot. I figured out why my race mood was degrading so drastically. Yup, it was a simple thing too. Can any one here say Xenophobic? (sp) Thats right, that setting does indeed work.

My apologies.

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And sorry about large letters, just wanted to draw attention.

EDIT: just to clarify, in the few AI's ive done i payed a lot of attention to the *_ai_politics.txt file, so i have some knowledge in that area. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Can you list your AI's so that I might steal, errr, borrow from them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: What really P***** me off!!!
 

I've done AI for TechnoLogic and Taera. I do not remember what i did with my TechnoLogic but i spent three days of work on the Taera AI, tweaking it quite a bit. For one, you'd have to work very hard to get a treaty with them and be careful not to annoy them. But it is highly customized. In general, if you want i can dig into the politics file and point out the areas that might interest you.

EDIT: taera_AI_politics.txt
Also, its not as great as it might sound http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif im still proud of it though

[ November 03, 2003, 08:38: Message edited by: Taera ]