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-   -   Modding Questions - Shattered Realms (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=10695)

clark November 3rd, 2003 05:18 PM

Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Modding the User Interface (UI)and general mod questions:

How much, and how far can one mod the user interface for Space Empires IV?

Can, and how, would one mod the playing field- the sector maps that contain the planets, warps, asteroids, and storms and such? Instead of a 'space bit map', could an all green (to mimic fields and grasslands) be installed? Where would the refrences need to be changed in the txt files?

Can the tactical display- where all fighting occurs, be modded to display a green bitmap instead of the standard space bitmap? Which txt files control it?

Where, and how, does one change the little descriptive txt about planets (you know where it will say things like "planet has nice argon ice patches, small/machine world, etc") Where is this controled in the txt files?

Can the graphics for how planets and moons appear in the tactical display be changed? Instead of a planet, could you replace that graphic (in the tactical display) with a picture of a Castle? In what txt file is that done?

Now, these may seem weird, so let me explain my vision...

Space Empire IV becomes "Shattered Realms I" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Instead of Space wars, Fantasy Wars, as it were.

In order to properly understand this, you have to realize that Araon has given us an 'engine', and wemerely need to change the body to make any game we want. I think most people understand this, so thus, my questions to you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What I was thinking was that if the UI can be modded, then all of this would be rather seamless, and we all can end up with a brand new spanking game... with the same 'feel' as Space Empires, but in a new genre.

So, instead of Gas, Rock, and Ice Planets, we have Ethreal Plane(Gas), Man's (or whatever) plane (rock), and Underworld plane (ice).

Instead of Carbon Dioxide, Oxygen, Hydrogen, Methane or None atmosphere's, we have Ancient Forests (carbon dioxide), Plains or Gardens (Oxygen), Fire pits (Hydrogen), Swamps (Methane), and Caverns or Crypts (None).

Instead of Ships, we have Hero's and Monsters (these form the bodies of the creatures we create to battle for us). So an escort becomes the base "humaniod" hero. The destroyer becomes a bigger body form for creatures, and on and on...

Life support, crew quarters, and Bridge become: Body (life support), Soul (crew quarters), and Mind (bridge). The computer control becomes a 'magical enchant' that can replace the previous functions...

Mines become 'booby traps'. Sats become 'guard towers', Drones become 'golems' (or whatever).

Troops become 'seige troops' to take castles and such. Fighters become griffins, pegasus, witches, flying monkies... you get the idea.

Weapon Platforms become ballista (giant crossbow), catapaults, or whatever.

Warp points become passages between the lands of the "Shattered Realms", or teleport sites, or whatever...

Stars become centers of majic (which later can be built upon to make giant towers, ala ringworld)

Minerals become Iron, Organics become foodstuff, and Radioactives become Majic.

Ruins lead to arcane majics unknown to your peoples.

Asteroids become little hills or forests that can be mined, or built into city centers (with the right spell).

Storms become acid fogs, fogs of invisibility, fogs of confusion, etc.

Black Holes become Chaos Chasms that suck everything in.

Quantum Reactor becomes "horn of Plenty". Engines become 'wings or speed'. Emissive armor becomes Mithril armor, or whatever.

Instead of alien races, we of course have Elves, Dwarves, Orcs, Hobbits (they never venture far from the shire!...netural), Dark Lords, Undead, Man, and on and on and on...

Everything in the SE4 universe can easily translate into something 'magical'. In order to complete this idea though, it is neccessary to mod the UI to give it more of that 'fantasy' feel, as opposed to just the space theme.

All of these changes are really cosmetic, so there wouldn't neccessarily need to be any type of AI changes or tweaks. This means that this could hit the ground running and have the TDM and other AI mods work right away. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Replies and thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.

General Woundwort November 3rd, 2003 05:58 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Somebody actually did start something along these lines about 6 months ago. I don't recall how far he got, or where the files got posted... wait a second, here it is...

Mod: Fantasy Mod maintained by Spoon Mod Version: beta 0.1.0 SE4 Version: 1.84

Listed in...

http://www.malfador.com/se4mods.html

DavidG November 3rd, 2003 06:15 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
everything you want can be done I think. All the data files are in the /data folder.

I'd suggest you check out Fyrons modding tutorial. (i'm sure he'll be by shortly to give you a link http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

clark November 3rd, 2003 06:23 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Thanks for the link!

I have been looking through the data files for this Mod, and it seems to be in the direction I am thinking (I am also answering several of my own questions now!).

Yet this mod is still a 'space setting'. I want to go a step further and make it fantasty based, which will require changes to the tactical, strategic, and UI display.

I also want to keep this as closely modeled to Space Empire IV as possible, as to avoid any AI issues (the mod that you linked to has no Ai support). I figure, if a base can be established, then people can take the extra steps to mod further- to create different variants, but first they need a strong foundation.

Since most of us cut our teeth on the vanilla SEIV, we all understand it, and we all have basic expectations on how it shoulod work. I don't want to start messing with any of that. First, the most basic cosmetic changes- so we keep all the basic ideas of SEIV, but translate them into a Fantasy setting. Then, afterwards, we go about tweaking it to our hearts content- but for this, just plain vanilla. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

What that means is we keep concepts of Planets, but make them Towns- different types of planets are directly translated into different planes of exsistence- different atmospheres are directly translated into different 'environments'. The mod you linked to went along some of these ideas, but it seems to have neglected atmosphere types (just using three different types of planets).

I don't really want to create new weapons and such, just change the names first- so anti proton beams become 'arrows', phased poloran becomes 'magic arrow'. etc.

In this way, we will have working AI's from the get go (a major portion of any Mod is getting the AI to work!)

The mod you mentioned also dosen't change the tactical or strategic display fields... which I would like to give it the realistic feel of fantasy (oxymoron? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Any other ideas of links? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

geoschmo November 3rd, 2003 06:46 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Some stuff in the interface you can't change. The game calls uncolonized planets "planets" and colonized planets "colonies" in several places. You can change the graphics and give them different names, and call them towns in the text of their description, but the game screens are still going to call them planets, colonies, asteroids, and stars.

Also, planets have type, atmosphere, conditions, and value. You can't change those. You can pretend they are something else, but the planet display is going to read type, atmosphere, conditions, value.

Most of the graphics for the buttons and lines for the UI can be changed. But unfortunatly not all of them can. This can lead to some akward looking results when attempting a 100% "skin" of the game.

You can change the vehicle size names to Hero and monster or whatever, but the game will still call them "ships" as a group.

Basically most of what you want to do can be done. But you and you players are going to have to be willing to allow for some things and make mental equations while playing. If that's not a problem for you then this should be ok.

[ November 03, 2003, 16:49: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

spoon November 3rd, 2003 06:51 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

Originally posted by clark:


Yet this mod is still a 'space setting'. I want to go a step further and make it fantasty based, which will require changes to the tactical, strategic, and UI display.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, that's just an older Version, I haven't updated it in a while, but the UI has changed and the background is indeed grass (thanks to fyron for the bmp), planets are caves, forests, and swamps, etc. Also changed the UI to be green, to match the grass, but only so much of that is moddable.

Right now I'm in the process of putting in art for all the components, after that, I'll post a new Version (in a week or two) and you can take whatever you want from there.

Quote:

Originally posted by clark:

The mod you linked to went along some of these ideas, but it seems to have neglected atmosphere types (just using three different types of planets).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually the atmosphere are still there, but they are changed to "alignments"...

Your approach (to essentially rename tech rather than do a complete overhaul) is a great idea - and you are right, that will make the ai easier to handle. What I'm going to have to do is go along the "Space Monster" vein of DevNull, and just give the ai it's own research path, since so much of the design changes "break" the way the ai works.

The biggest problem I ran into art-wise is with the shipsets. It's fairly easy (albiet time comsuming) to change the art for componets and worlds, but getting fantasy-based shipssets to look good has been a problem. I decided to take the easy way out and just use symbols for ships rather that pictures.

And like I said, feel free to use any of the art I post, when I post it. All the components are from Magic: The Gathering art, so it is looking pretty spiffy.

-Spoon

spoon November 3rd, 2003 06:56 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:


Most of the graphics for the buttons and lines for the UI can be changed. But unfortunatly not all of them can. This can lead to some akward looking results when attempting a 100% "skin" of the game.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This turned out to be not as bad as I thought it would be...


Quote:

Originally posted by geoschmo:
But you and you players are going to have to be willing to allow for some things and make mental equations while playing.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Very true!

clark November 3rd, 2003 07:04 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Cool, thanks for the replies! Sorry Spoon, you're right, there are different atmosphere types, I didn't see them at first.

Question: I'm looking through the SectType.txt files and I notice that under the "Allowable Values for Physical Type:" the following atre listed: None, Planet, Asteroids, Storm, Sun, Warp Point, Destroyed Star, Comet

Now, what happens if I give it a "None" physical type, but then add in lines defining the planet?

It looks like this:

Physical Type := Planet (Change to NONE?)
Picture Num := 0
Description := Huge Forest near an abundance of surface minerals.
Planet Size := Huge
Planet Physical Type := Gas Giant
Planet Atmosphere := Carbon Dioxide

Okay, now I realize I need to keep the Carbon Dioxide refrence, and the Gas Giant refrence in order to define the planet- but what happens if I do that, but give it a physical type of None?

I am trying to think of ways to avoid the 'planet' naming on uncolonized spots. Perhaps this may be a way to cheat it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

And yes, I plan on begging, borrowing, and stealing any manner of art out there since i have zero ability. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I have DO, so I plan on using alot of the bitmaps there. Well done Spoon!

geoschmo November 3rd, 2003 07:21 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

Originally posted by clark:

Now, what happens if I give it a "None" physical type, but then add in lines defining the planet?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You get errors. Despite what the header says None is not a valid physical type.

Suicide Junkie November 3rd, 2003 07:22 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
The physical type defines what lines come after it... for example, stars don't have atmospheres or surface types, they have colours and luminosities...

If you want it to have the properties of a planet, the type has to be planet.

clark November 3rd, 2003 07:37 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Thank you ALL for the help so far!

Okay, so it looks like there won't be a way to change the display for "planets uncolonized". I think I can live with it. What about changing the display for tactical combat? Where is that controlled? Can I replace the planet and moon pics with pictures of Castles or Towns or Caves?

I think "colony" appearing int he display is also acceptable. However, I was wondering, would there be a way to get the "planets" to display something other than Methane, Carbon Dioxide, Oyxgen, None atmospher types? Spoon may be able to point me in the right direction. I want to make them display the different "environment types". I also would like to change the display names for Rock, Gas, and Ice to the different planes- is this possible, or will it always display the stuff in the txt files that are associated with attributes?

spoon November 3rd, 2003 07:49 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

Originally posted by clark:

I think "colony" appearing int he display is also acceptable. However, I was wondering, would there be a way to get the "planets" to display something other than Methane, Carbon Dioxide, Oyxgen, None atmospher types?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you are pretty much stuck with those - really all you can change is the "Description" entry in secttype.txt

clark November 3rd, 2003 07:58 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Arrrrggghhh! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Oh well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I knew the UI would be the worst part of this...

I wonder how hard it would be for Araon to allow renaming of this stuff... I mean, it's just text files right?

Spoon, were you able to make changes to the tactical display? If so, where is this controlled?

clark November 3rd, 2003 08:04 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
I have another SectType.txt question:

Physical Type := Planet
Picture Num := 301
Description := Massive constructed sphere surrounding a star which is the equivalent of 10 large planets.
Planet Size := Sphereworld
Planet Physical Type := Gas Giant
Planet Atmosphere := Carbon Dioxide

The planet size listed here is "Sphereworld", yet this isn't listed as a Planet Size type in the Secttype.txt files

Here are the listed ones:

Allowable Values for Planet Size:
Asteroids, Tiny, Small, Medium, Large, Huge

Now, what this tells me is that we can mod it so Asteroids are colonizable, or even warppoints (or am I way off)? Is the Sphereworld size missing just a typo, or is something else going on?

What if I change the names of "Allowable Values for Planet Size"- would the game recognize the new ones I define, or is it merely just a descriptive aid with no bearing on the txt files themselves?

spoon November 3rd, 2003 08:08 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

Originally posted by clark:

Spoon, were you able to make changes to the tactical display? If so, where is this controlled?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">heh, since I only ever play simultaneous (and I was originally going to make the mod multiplayer only), I never really tried... not sure what data the game looks at for this.

DavidG November 3rd, 2003 08:14 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

Originally posted by clark:

Now, what this tells me is that we can mod it so Asteroids are colonizable, or even warppoints (or am I way off)? Is the Sphereworld size missing just a typo, or is something else going on?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's just missing. Also missing is Ringworld.

geoschmo November 3rd, 2003 10:14 PM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

Originally posted by clark:
What if I change the names of "Allowable Values for Planet Size"- would the game recognize the new ones I define, or is it merely just a descriptive aid with no bearing on the txt files themselves?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. Everything in the header section is jsut for information purposes only. Changing it has no effect. It's not even guaranteed that everything in the header section is 100% correct. Case in point is the "None" physical type you mentioned before. It's listed there, but it's not actually an allowable Physical type. Some of that stuff he put in there at some point intending for it to be enabled and in the end had to be removed but he forgot to update the header in some cases.

Geoschmo

Fyron November 4th, 2003 12:50 AM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

And like I said, feel free to use any of the art I post, when I post it. All the components are from Magic: The Gathering art, so it is looking pretty spiffy.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So I assume you will want to submit those to the Image Mod so that they can be used in other mods (Adamant for example)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Actually... have you checked out Adamant Mod? It has some fantasy stuff in there. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

SE4 Modding 101 Tutorial that DavidG mentioned earlier is in my sig.

[ November 03, 2003, 22:51: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

spoon November 4th, 2003 02:39 AM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
So I assume you will want to submit those to the Image Mod so that they can be used in other mods (Adamant for example)? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I figured the Image Mod wouldn't want to get over-bloated with all this fantasy art...

Fyron November 4th, 2003 03:31 AM

Re: Modding Questions - Shattered Realms
 
Well if two mods use the images, that already saves on some downloading size... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And if this Shattered Realms mod uses them too, that is even more benefit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 04, 2003, 01:32: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]


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