Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

I am working on a mod (very loosely based on Civ/SMAC) and would like to extend the life of fighters and missiles into the late game. Looking at some of the balance threads, it seems the main problem in the stock game is PDC is too strong. Is this the only problem, or are there others? Any ideas on how to approach this issue?

Also... Other than making them seekers, is there a way to mod torpedoes so they are not affected by the direct fire mount sizes?

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">With PDC, I think some mods make them less versatile - ie, in stock, PDCs can shoot at most everything: Sats, fighters, drones, missiles, flying monkeys, etc. If you make fighter-only PDCs and Missile only PDCs, etc, that would maybe help some.

For torpedos, just list all the non-torpedo families in the "Comp Family Requirement" entry in CompEnhancement.txt. Then torpedoes wouldn't be able to use those mounts.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

I've been trying to make fighters and missle more usefull too. I think the basic problem with missles (and fighters) is they are obviously too easily destroyed. I've been giving them more hitpoints. Also I've made a few new missile types so that missile techology gets better as does point defense. (some types I've made:
Faster loading - fire every 2 turns
Shielded - gave it more hitpoints
Decoy - a small cheap missle designed to soak up point defense.
High Speed

I also made my missiles much faster since I think it makes sense that missiles are way faster than ships. I haven't tested them much yet so I"m not sure how effective my changes are yet.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

sweet mod uses improved missles.... Increase in Damage, speed , decrease in size... PDC's Increase in size and all the damage is reduced by 10%. And PDC is broken into two types , seeker and unit types. Fighters are larger as is the ship component.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

How about making it so that only fighters can shoot down missiles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Then they'll both be critical to long term success, without making direct fire weapons obsolete.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmmmm, interesting. Is that a new idea? I don't think I have heard it before. That would certainly make the game more interesting. You'd have to have a mix of ships for sure.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmmmm, interesting. Is that a new idea? I don't think I have heard it before. That would certainly make the game more interesting. You'd have to have a mix of ships for sure. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">AIC has healthy elements of it. There you can create a dedicated interceptor deadly to fighters and missiles but unable to target ships.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Please take a look on Proportions mod. I think it gives a perfect (so far) solution to PDC problem.

As to 'also..' question, the latest SE patch allows one to restrict mounts to certain component families. Take care to exclude torpedoes from the mounts setup and bingo ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I know that fighters rock in Proportions, but how does Proportions make seekers more viable?

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No it doesn't. It takes the PDC problem to the other extreme, making fighters uberpowerful instead of PDC. Not sure on the missiles, but at least for fighters, Proportions does not fix anything.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmmmm, interesting. Is that a new idea? I don't think I have heard it before. That would certainly make the game more interesting. You'd have to have a mix of ships for sure. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">AIC has healthy elements of it. There you can create a dedicated interceptor deadly to fighters and missiles but unable to target ships. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can set up a medium or large AIC fighter to attack ships, bases, planets, other fighters and Missiles.
Like Oleg said the small intercepter is very good at the AntiFighter, AntiSat, antiMissile and Antidrone combat role.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Thanks everyone, for all the good ideas about fighters and seekers. It sounds as if a combination of less effective PDC and hardier seekers may be the best solution. But finding the correct balance will be the tough part.

Thanks, also, for the tip on mounts and component families. Problem solved!

Here's another question to throw into the mix: If you were going to play a space exploration game in a Civ/SMAC style universe, what types of things (facilities, weapons, characteristics, etc.) would you like to see?

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It does, IMHO, but not directly. Just my impression but I yhink it is related to the long Lasting benefits of smaller ships. It decrease the effect of direct-fire weapon mounts on the game balance and the concentration of PDC on one target.

Also, Proportions has Light Missile System that can make wonders saturating PDC.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Seekers are more viable in Proportions due to several factors:

* Light Missile Systems fire seekers up to about four times faster per kT than Cap missiles.

* Small ships are inexpensive to maintain and have good defense bonuses, so small missile ships can be fast, economical, defensive and cheap (don't need CS or ECM).

* Good fleets include small ships, which can mount less PD and are hard to hit with direct-fire, so missiles are good against them.

* Higher-tech proportions drones are also potent and PD-soaking.

* Fighters are very PD-soaking, so a fleet using both fighters and seekers can easily overwhelm PDC. This is one reason why Proportions offers self-defense cannon, which are cheap range-one defenses against missiles, of almost no use against fighters.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

LMS I think also gets to be smaller than a PDC, and not all PDC will be in range to hit all the seekers. Moreover, fly just a few fighters around, and they tend to attract the PDC, meaning the ships need SDC, which only has range 1, etc.

Anyway, in my experience, I think it works pretty well, although of course there could be tweaks made, depending on how you want things to balance out.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Thanks Oleg and PvK for your advice about using light missiles. PvK, may I take some of your ideas from Proportions and transplant them into Civilizations Mod (my working title)? In other words, may I steal them from you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Yes, certainly! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

You might want to reduce the ability of fighters to be overly-powerful like in Proportions though... even those special anti-Fighter PDCs from Energy Pulse Weapons don't help much.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course, since PDC fires every round, it can still kill the light missiles as easily as it kills the regular missiles - it's just doing it every turn instead of waiting two turns in between shots http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Perhaps if PDC only fired every other round...

[ November 04, 2003, 12:18: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course, since PDC fires every round, it can still kill the light missiles as easily as it kills the regular missiles - it's just doing it every turn instead of waiting two turns in between shots http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Perhaps if PDC only fired every other round... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LMS and CSM operate as separate stacks and PD damage does not transfer from one to another. Thus, if PDC fires on LMS, it is out of use for that round and CSM can reach the ship. It really helps to have one LMS on almost evry ship to distract PDC from fighters and CSM.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Depends on your tech level, and how much time you spend sitting around building up fighters. I think Fryon's experience in Proportions tends to be that he does a land grab and then gets bored, building up silly quantities of fighters once he reaches his maintenance limits for ships.

However I will grant that:

* Proportions makes fighters quite powerful
* Proportions fighters are powerful early in the tech tree, compared to other techs
* SE4 zero-maintenance units means that stockpiling fighters can lead to some very large and therefore powerful (particularly on defense) fighter stacks.

Later-tech Proportions stuff, and mid-tech bases and planets, can deal with fighters pretty well, though. And, fighters aren't as powerful as they are in say, real-world naval combat from World War 2 onwards.

You might want to playtest a bit to see if you think the balance is ok. If you decide you want to stay a bit closer to unmodded SE4 and Star Trek in emphasizing weapon-bearing ships over fighters, or if you just want to tweak them down, you might want to adjust the Proportions values with some or all of the following ideas:

1) Reduce the damage done by the light fighter weapons by about half, down to 1 or 2 points per weapon, and or increase their size, so they don't do much damage at all. (or, remove their ability to target anything but fighters)

2) Make fighter weapons which heavy weapons for hitting ships, unable to target fighters.

3) Remove fighter shields, or make them only about as good as fighter armor, or a little better.

4) Consider removing or reducing the structure value of fighter until they have about half the damage resistance they currently do (without shields).

5) Consider making fighter components cost more.

6) Consider making fighters start out with somewhat lower offense and defensive bonuses, but add more fighter ECM and combat sensors at higher research levels, so early fighters aren't so hard to kill, and later fighters make stockpiles of earlier fighters relatively obsolete.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

If you can knock out several players using those fighter hordes in the early to mid game long before they can get effective defense against them, they are too powerful. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

What is so effective at taking out fighters in the later stages of the game? Certainly not those anti-fighter PDCs. You need quite a few of them to start destroying fighters in reasonable numbers. The only PD that can hit fighters with more than a 1% success rate are the Point Defense Beams, and those max out at 17 damage, so they take several shots to kill one fighter. Unless, of course, they stick 2-3 small shield generator Vs on their fighters, which means they will take 5-7 hits from PDBs before dying.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Ships with stacked attack bonuses from high-tech components and/or weapons with to-hit bonuses. Bases or planets (or Massive Base Ships) with Fire Control Centers that allow capital ship DF weapons to hit fighter stacks (remember losing all the fighters from your ungodly-large carrier armada in Adamant 0006 to the Xi'Chung AI homeworld?). Also, high-tech ships can have very high damage resistance from shields and armor, which fighters don't hurt very much.

It's true though that early-mid game empires should all have some defensive fighters, or they will be vulnerable to enemy fighter attack. Kind of like real warfare since World War 2, or much science fiction.

Fighters are a bit like drones, though, in that one of their main advantages is that SE4 doesn't charge any maintenance for them, so you can stockpile a practically unlimited number of them in peace time. This makes them seem cheaper than they really are, when you're not in a serious war. If you have to keep up with combat losses, then their costs and shipyard time comes into play.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Probably should have brought a bit of napalm with that carrier armada... nasty Xi'Chung.

Note: I have been talking about MP use mostly here. The AI is hardly salvageable to ever provide much of a challenge to most players, unless you cheat and give them a lot of special stuff only they can use...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unless the fighters are launched in stacks...

With the slow rate of research progress in Proportions, all those high-tech goodies take far too long to get to save the first couple of empires a warmonger attacks...

Also, stockpiling fighters is a snap when you can support 20 BSYs or more over your HW without breaking a sweat. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 05, 2003, 03:17: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Fire Control Centers can be obtained by the time any large fighter Groups can be brought against another empire.

But ya, in a MP Proportions game with fighters included, trying to fight fighter-using empires without using any fighters of your own will probably be extremely hard. That's true reality and much SF, and is intentional. If you want to play more Trek-like Proportions, tweak the fighters or just turn off their tech area.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

I like the idea of 'fire rate 2' for fighter weapons - like JLS did in AIC. First, it makes fighters fight more 'realistic': they fly over and fire on you then regroup and fly back. Something we usually see in war movies http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Second, PD would now have TWO chances to shot down fighters during the raid - on the way in and out.
That alone should make PDB more usefull even without increasing the damage which would otherwise affect missiles !

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How I used to play proporitions was to make just carriers with fighters and a few escort scouts.

There is no need for other combat ships because a fleet of 10 or more carriers with fighters can beat everything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What does zero-maintenance units have to do with the Fighters being out of proprortion?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not true.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Most of this sounds like the way fighters are now with the AIC Fighter Mod by JLS and OLEG http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 05, 2003, 11:07: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If the fire control really works the way it is discribed.
Even then it does not help much with fighters, you said earlier that the Proportions PDC has enough to hit, why even mention this?

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If the fire control really works the way it is discribed.
Even then it does not help much with fighters, you said earlier that the Proportions PDC has enough to hit, why even mention this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fire control centers DO help against fighters ! extra 40% to hit gives PDC very good chance to hit. Even more, FCS plus to-hit bonuses from WP mounts makes normal weapons quite effective.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Oleg how do we really know that ONE Fire Control really works for ALL Weapons Platforms on the planet not just the one its on after that you cant fit much else?

It looks just like a big Combat Sensor or do all Combat Sensors on the planet add up or does it just take the largest Combat sensor value like a ship.

IMHO I do not see much differnce to the other WP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ November 05, 2003, 11:13: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am 100% sure FCC works for all weapon platforms on the planet - I usually build just one Comand Center WP with fire control, latest sensors, WP comand centers (from military science - expensive but with to-hit bonus), no weapons http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif and a LOT of armor and shields to be sure it will Last whole battle. Other platforms have computer center, some armor and weapons.
This Comand Center WP indeed directs the fire of all WP on the planet.

(multiple sensors from different platforms do not add up, planet is treated as a single "ship")

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Oleg if so how does it work in se4 terms?


"It looks just like a big Combat Sensor or do all Combat Sensors on the planet add up or does the whole PLANET just take the largest Combat sensor value like a ship."

[ November 05, 2003, 11:44: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

It is a well documented fact that all untis in a stack recieve the same combat sensor and ECM bonuses from components on just a single unit. It will be the best of the bonuses in the stack. This applies to WPs, satellites, and fighters. Probably drones and mines as well, but those either don't stack or don't appear on combat maps. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

It should be noted that Fighters only launch, and therefore only stack, like with like. So one Fighter with CS and ECM will not mean all Fighters get the bonus, it will mean one Fighter in a doomed little group all by himself. I believe the same is true for Drones.

This effect really shines on the Satellites, Troops, and Weapon Platforms.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

I thought it launched fighters in the order you loaded them? Isn't it possible to load them so that you get 1 ECM/CS and 4 normal in each stack? At least until they start dying, that is. The next combat they will be all out of order. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I am pretty sure it is possible, just not very useful in practice.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, I plan on doing just that (Civ AI's cheat like bandits, too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif )

Thanks PvK for the very good list of ways to tweak the Proportions fighters. I will probably do most of them. I may also add point defense missiles that can target fighters, and which will have enough firepower to knock one out if it hits.

Because I'd like to play this mod on PBW with other humans, I'll probably take an intermediate approach to things like research rates and population growth. I think Proportions is much more realistic than stock SE4, but for PBW I think I'll have to sacrifice realism for speed of play. We don't want would-be Rulers of the Universe getting bored, do we? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You are right. I have done this. You just have to pay attention to your launch capacity and your orders for fighter group size. Or, to launch before the battle - you can have a 100-fighter group with one EW fighter giving its bonuses to the entire stack. It would really be nice if Aaron would implement the suggestion to break up fighter hordes during tactical combat, in the next patch.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Chronon, AIC has most of those tweaks done to Proportions fighters already. Check it out too.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What does zero-maintenance units have to do with the Fighters being out of proprortion?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

As I thought I explained a couple of times, it means that you can stockpile them during peacetime more efficiently than you can with ships. In such situations, they can become quite powerful in situations where you don't need ships to move them around (i.e., on defense).

So, making them less powerful against ships, more expensive, and more prone to become obsolete over time, are ways to try to compensate.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> Later-tech Proportions stuff, and mid-tech bases and planets, can deal with fighters pretty well, though. And, fighters aren't as powerful as they are in say, real-world naval combat from World War 2 onwards.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not true.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Is so. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> 1) Reduce the damage done by the light fighter weapons by about half, down to 1 or 2 points per weapon, and or increase their size, so they don't do much damage at all. (or, remove their ability to target anything but fighters) 2) Make fighter weapons which heavy weapons for hitting ships, unable to target fighters. 3) Remove fighter shields, or make them only about as good as fighter armor, or a little better. 4) Consider removing or reducing the structure value of fighter until they have about half the damage resistance they currently do (without shields). 5) Consider making fighter components cost more. 6) Consider making fighters start out with somewhat lower offense and defensive bonuses, but add more fighter ECM and combat sensors at higher research levels, so early fighters aren't so hard to kill, and later fighters make stockpiles of earlier fighters relatively obsolete.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Most of this sounds like the way fighters are now with the AIC Fighter Mod by JLS and OLEG http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, well this has all been discussed before, so I'm glad JLC has tried such things. I haven't had time to keep up with all the stuff he's been doing in AIC. Starting with AIC's Versions may be a good idea, or even talking with JLS and making a mod based on AIC. AIC has the advantage of making a major effort to get the AI to be challenging to play against. As has been pointed out, this generally requires giving the AI advantages to compensate for its weaknesses, and JLS has been refining that concept for a long time.

PvK

[ November 05, 2003, 18:05: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, that'd be another good countermeasure.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If the fire control really works the way it is discribed.
Even then it does not help much with fighters, you said earlier that the Proportions PDC has enough to hit, why even mention this? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It might help you understand, if you realized that I had extensively tested most things in Proportions, and that I have actually seen the things I'm talking about working in practice.

FCC's do work, and they have the effect of making large, powerful, multi-purpose weapons, suddenly able to hit fighter stacks as well as ships and everything else. Since SE4 has hits to stacks able to kill more than one fighter, suddenly heavy weapons are bLasting several fighters per shot.

The reason fighters are powerful in Proportions is that they're usually hard to hit. When FCC's change this, they're suddenly in even worse shape than they were in unmodded SE4, since they do and resist less damage.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How I used to play proporitions was to make just carriers with fighters and a few escort scouts.

There is no need for other combat ships because a fleet of 10 or more carriers with fighters can beat everything http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It might beat the AI, until it runs into something with FCC. Fryon's fleet against the Xi'Chung AI homeworld had dozens of full carriers, which coated much of the tactical map with shielded fighters, but after a battle or two had no fighters left. The Xi'Chung AI later attacked with a few warships, which took out quite a few empty carriers before the escorts and allied warships caught them. The planet was finally destroyed by the allied fleet of warships.

Against humans, yeah fighters are important, but if you rely on carriers only and are actually fighting a war against humans, fighters have a high attrition rate, especially if something takes out their carriers (since they don't generally have enough supplies to fight more than one or maybe two battles).

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, that's a good idea.

PvK

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

GLV, (sometime) I wonder if you know what you are saying or how you are saying it.

How much have you played Proportions and I would kick your butt (ALL the way back to your HW and purge that too) if you only made CV’s http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ November 06, 2003, 12:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks for the suggestion, Fyron, I have been in touch with JLS about using some things from AIC. He would prefer, and understandably so, that I wait until AIC is finished before borrowing things from it. In the meantime, I'll see what I can do on my own.

PS. Thanks for writing "SEIV Modding 101," by the way, it's been extremely useful.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Mods are never finished. That could be quite a long wait! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

Originally posted by Chronon:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">AIC has never used Proportions Fighters as its base so hence; there never was a tweak to consider http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif With Proportions actually, any other mod may not have fighters like the AIC Tactical and Strategic Fighters.

With AI Campaigns beta release Last Febuary the AIC Engines, Weapons, and Fighter support components and concepts are very unique with the AIC Tactical and Strategic fighter modules http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

However, if anyone would like to use the AIC Strategic Fighters for all players, in there mod; go for it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ November 07, 2003, 14:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

"Proportions fighters" are not modded a whole lot from stock... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif I was talking about the whole fighter issue, including the PDC aspects.

Re: Balancing Fighters, Missiles and PDC in the late game
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sure they are. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif