Share your opinions
 

Hello all. I'm working on a new mod, and would like to hear your opinions and suggestion on what has been done so far. Since there's still a lot of "cleaning" to do, an upload might take a while.
Here's the description:


Space Empires IV
STARFLEETS MOD

Version 0.?

by Admiral Wunderbar


---------------------------------------------------------------------
- BACKGROUND:
In a Starfleet, several different kinds of ships have specific
tasks to be accomplished. This is exactly what this mod tries to
emulate. Bigger ships doesn't make smaller ones obsolete, but
rather complement their habilities and work in harmony for a
greater effect. Another twist is given to racial technologies.
Population size now affects greatly your empire, and growth is
diminished, but the organic race laughs of it. Devastating
cannons are hard to come by, yet the crystalline race sees it
as a natural thing. And so on.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------------------------
- CONCEPTS & MECHANICS:
The Ship Construction tech-tree and Vehicle Sizes have been
greatly altered: you will discover the small Interceptor at
Ship Construction level 5, and the Spy Shuttle at level 6.
Always pay attention to wich "mounts" are available for each
ship, it's where the key to victory lies.
Another great change is the approach to weapons. Several
tech-trees have been tweaked or removed, specially seekers,
to give way to huge planet-devastating cannons.
Intel projects have been made somewhat more vicious, labs
have been taken to space, and space travel bows to Time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------
- DETAILS:
SETTINGS:
Population Mass raised to 50 ktons
Militia strength diminished
VEHICLETYPES:
L1- Lancer, your basic unworthy ship
L2- Scout, "mount" design (or not) makes it a long range
exploration ship. Obs: either way you'll have almost
the same range, with Scout Mount engines or with
normal engines and a supply storage, but using
Scout Mount frees space for weapons or defensive
components.
L3- Destroyer, more powerful cannons with mount
L4- Cruiser, Good ol' jack-of-all-trades
L5- Interceptor, the tech mounts are essencial here.
A small number of these tiny ships can take out
the mightiest Dreadnought... you have been warned!
L6- Spy Shuttle. Have you ever overlooked the biology
tech-tree? Or the Planetary Weapons? Do it no more,
these insidious little worms can wreak havoc in
any empire.
L7- Battleship. One of these can change the tides of a
battle without having any weapons or shields...
check out the Battle Command Center component
available to this ship!
L8- Dreadnought. Time to hit those heavly guarded Space
Stations from afar. The Spinal Mount will turn
this ship into a flying BFG.
L9- Baseship. Fleets are taken to a next level with this
one. The War Command Center will make your enemies
tremble wherever you go. (req Scanners 1)

ASSORTED CHANGES:
- QNP. Quasi Newtonian Movement applied.
- Anti-Matter Stream Weapons. Requires Physics 4. The
Mean Gun, long range and enormous damage.
- Supply Storage. Increased in size and capacity.
- Quantum Reactor. It's no more, there's a new engine
with no supply consumption, yet you still have
to worry about supplies for your weapons or other
components. Req Propulsion 10 and Resupply 5.
- Engines. Now store less supplies.
- Weapons techs. Redundant (and not so redundant)
technologies have been removed.
- Intel Projects. Some have had costs lowered, and/or
effects increased. Covert Wars are not a pretty
matter.
- Capital Ship Missile. No longer the god of weapons,
had its reaload increased and seeker speed
diminished. It's still a good weapon.
- Fighters. It's now a bit more expensive to build
swarms of it.
- Empire Storage. Raised to 500k, better for finite
resources gameplay.
- Research Labs. Have taken to space and from there
to new boundaries.
- Mines. Damage diminished to half.
- Quadrants. Spiral Arm and Ancient have been tweaked
for an exploration game.
- Advanced Traits. Costs have been balanced out.

RACIAL CHANGES:
- Psychic Technology. Got vacation facility from temporal
technology. More: improved training and new Psy-Ops
intelligence facilities. Weapons: Flaier and Subverter
have been improved, Telekinetic Projector removed.
Lost scanners and receptors.
- Religious Technology. No changes, never played with it.
- Temporal Technology. New ship-movement bonus, the
Time Sail takes the solar sail to higher grounds.
Lost all weapons, and got better combat sensors.
- Organic Technology. Research costs lowered, Replicant
facility improved and extended. Lost all weapons.
- Crystalline Technology. Armors are smaller, lost Lens,
Crystal Cannons greatly improved, other weapons
discarded.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

Plenty of good stuff here. I always liked the idea of greatly improving racial techs -- for multiplayer use only not vs AI. I also like the temporal sail, I always thought it should have some sort of "time warp" engine or something like that.

Re: Share your opinions
 

I have a single question: how do you plan to put the research labs into space? You cannot put the "Research generation" ability on components, it won't work as far as I know. (It had been already tried, to no avail)

If it could be done, my Nomads would be already rejoicing and preparing their conquest of the galaxy. Being able to fully live into deep space... But I digress.

[ November 09, 2003, 16:13: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: Share your opinions
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif Heh, you got me worried cause I hadn't tested this comp... but seems to be working fine. If it helps, here it is:

Name := Small Space Lab
Description := High-Tech researching module which develops new technology for a society.
Pic Num := 62
Tonnage Space Taken := 50
Tonnage Structure := 10
Cost Minerals := 5000
Cost Organics := 5000
Cost Radioactives := 8000
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base
Supply Amount Used := 5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Miscellaneous
Family := 6003
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Applied Research
Tech Level Req 1 := 2
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Point Generation - Research
Ability 1 Descr := Generates 500 research points each turn.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 500
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Good luck in deep space!

PS: Hmm, doesn't seem to be using the Supply Amount indicated...

[ November 09, 2003, 16:38: Message edited by: Admiral Wunderbar ]

Re: Share your opinions
 

I did try a similar component. Didn't work, either resource generation or research generation. I believe the game doesn't allow for resource production in deep space, you do need a planet or asteroid of some sort, even in the case of remote-mining. I am afraid other failed to make such a component work as well.

Re: Share your opinions
 

my mistake...

[ November 09, 2003, 17:14: Message edited by: Admiral Wunderbar ]

Re: Share your opinions
 

Have fun modding! Here are a few quick responses:

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How will this be different from the Wave Motion Gun?

Quote:

- Quantum Reactor. It's no more, there's a new engine with no supply consumption, yet you still have to worry about supplies for your weapons or other components. Req Propulsion 10 and Resupply 5.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Great idea!

Quote:

- Capital Ship Missile. No longer the god of weapons, had its reaload increased and seeker speed diminished. It's still a good weapon.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">General concensus is that cap ship missiles are already too weak after the early game. I suggest beefing them up rather than toning them down. Depends greatly, of course, on what you do the Point Defense Cannons, if anything.

Quote:

- Fighters. It's now a bit more expensive to build swarms of it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Same here as with cap ships. Fighters are (mostly) inneffective except as a surprise tactic.

Quote:

- Mines. Damage diminished to half.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You might want to try cutting their damage by 1/10, but increase the amount you can have in a sector by 5. Just a thought...

Quote:

- Advanced Traits. Costs have been balanced out.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">See PVK's balance mod for a great balancing of characteristics and traits.

Quote:

- Religious Technology. No changes, never played with it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Religious Talisman is viewed by many as being over-powered, though in a game with experienced players, it can be a liability since everyone will try to kill you before you research it.

Quote:

- Organic Technology. Research costs lowered, Replicant facility improved and extended. Lost all weapons.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">All the weapons? Seems extreme.

Re: Share your opinions
 

edit: there is no post

[ November 09, 2003, 17:51: Message edited by: spoon ]

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How will this be different from the Wave Motion Gun?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Range is superior, and since there is no Wave M Gun, this is an enhanced replacement.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> - Capital Ship Missile. No longer the god of weapons, had its reaload increased and seeker speed diminished. It's still a good weapon.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">General concensus is that cap ship missiles are already too weak after the early game. I suggest beefing them up rather than toning them down. Depends greatly, of course, on what you do the Point Defense Cannons, if anything.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's the point. There is just no other better weapon until PD. I base myself in films and novels, where missiles are only used in close range against unprotected targets. Without CSM, we have more options with DUC, Energy Stream Weapons, Phased cannons, etc. Also, Torpedo weapons are now a decent option until later stages.
In any case I'll look into it, maybe faster and shorter in range makes it better overall.

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> - Fighters. It's now a bit more expensive to build swarms of it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Same here as with cap ships. Fighters are (mostly) inneffective except as a surprise tactic.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm, I have beaten some games with a swarm of it, and thought it was too cheap a tactic. :shrug:

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> - Mines. Damage diminished to half.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You might want to try cutting their damage by 1/10, but increase the amount you can have in a sector by 5. Just a thought...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Good idea!

Quote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> - Religious Technology. No changes, never played with it.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Religious Talisman is viewed by many as being over-powered, though in a game with experienced players, it can be a liability since everyone will try to kill you before you research it.

Quote:

- Organic Technology. Research costs lowered, Replicant facility improved and extended. Lost all weapons.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">All the weapons? Seems extreme. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The techs have been improved in other ways. I've played with organic and usually I could have double population than any other race. Since pop influences more your production and construction, this is a huge bonus not to be overlooked. In fact, it's just too good and I'm thinking of toning it down. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Thanks!

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why? What was wrong with that weapon?

I'd give Organic Manipulation its weapons back... they are not really more powerful than normal weapons, and take a huge amount of research to get. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's the point. There is just no other better weapon until PD. I base myself in films and novels, where missiles are only used in close range against unprotected targets. Without CSM, we have more options with DUC, Energy Stream Weapons, Phased cannons, etc. Also, Torpedo weapons are now a decent option until later stages.
In any case I'll look into it, maybe faster and shorter in range makes it better overall.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I like the idea of changing them into short-range weapons. Still, if you want them to Last as a choice beyond turn 20, you'd have to make them stronger, not weaker. Maybe you can accomplish what you want by making them weaker at the early tech levels, but then extend the amount of research you can put into them, to make them an option in the mid-late game.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm, I have beaten some games with a swarm of it, and thought it was too cheap a tactic. :shrug:
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Was that against the AI, or other humans? The ai is notoriously easy to surprise...heh.

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why? What was wrong with that weapon?

I'd give Organic Manipulation its weapons back... they are not really more powerful than normal weapons, and take a huge amount of research to get. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's related to the new focus each tech has.
Psy = insidious and subtle. So they get happiness improvement, ship/fleet training, enhanced intel points generation, subvertion technics. It just doesn't fit in direct damage.
Organic = reproduction, and by consequence faster empire spawning. So replication centers are more important now, and you need less research to get it.
Temporal = speed and event predicton. That's why they have techs to improve ship speed, construction speed, and better combat sensors -> they predict where the target will be.
Crystalline = armor and cannons. This one, and only this one, can make ships that dishes out more damage and can sustain it. At least throught low-mid levels.
I avoid giving a bit of other areas to each to maintain it's uniqueness, seems to add more flavor to each race and gameplay. Also your choices are more important, they have more impact on your empire. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

Sometime around the end of the year, if all goes well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

I guess Supply Generation (ala Resupply Depot facility) is another ability that currently won't work on components. I tried awhile back to make a Base Resupply component for Bases, and never could get it to work. Maybe this is why?

Here it is, in case I have just done something wrong in it that one of y'all knows how to fix:


Name := Base Resupply Depot
Description := Spinoff development of the quantum reactor technology, allowing a Base to provide unlimited resupply to ships in the same sector, similar to a planetary Resupply facility.
Pic Num := 37
Tonnage Space Taken := 100
Tonnage Structure := 100
Cost Minerals := 4000
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 0
Vehicle Type := Base
Supply Amount Used := 0
Restrictions := One Per Vehicle
General Group := Supply
Family := 1025
Roman Numeral := 0
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Resupply
Tech Level Req 1 := 5
Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Supply Generation
Ability 1 Descr := Can generate unlimited supplies each turn for ships.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None


Rationale: This is the same Resupply tech level that allows one to build the Quantum Reactor, so it seemed to me that also should give the tech to make a Resupply Depot that will fit on a Base - to resupply those ships that are not fitted with Quantum Reactors. Size was based on 5 * QR size, and cost I think I based from Resupply Depot cost, at slight discount because of the cost and construction time already involved in building the Base that will hold this component.

Would be nice to get this working, but not a big deal - in alternative, I just try to keep at least one QR-equipped ship in fleet with any older ships that are still around, to keep them supplied.

SpaceBadger

Re: Share your opinions
 

No, you didn't do anything wrong. That ability simply has no effect for ships or bases. Only facilities.

Re: Share your opinions
 

One problem with making bases into resupply depots is that you can no longer fleet them. I used to use 'em as remote resupply centers - hide one in a storm deep in remote territory, put it into your fleet for 1 turn, fleet filled up and go next turn.

That was a major thing IMO for my tactical 'flavor'.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It isn't difficult to undo that change, just a one-line entry in settings.txt.

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Resource and Intelligence point generation does not work on components...yet...this is an item I (and others) have submitted to Malfador and should make it in the final patch - so you might want to hold on to those entries for the time being.

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hurrah!
Any idea about the ETA?

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If this component had worked as intended, you wouldn't need to fleet up with the base, just pass over it the way you would a regular planetary depot. Maybe in SEV...

SpaceBadger

Re: Share your opinions
 

AIC has a resupply base system that works real well.

Re: Share your opinions
 

Its not much, it is just a non-moving ship that will auto top off in time, disguised as a base and built by a SYS. However, this way you do not have to change the settings to base fleeting for refuil thereby opening another assortment of problems http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Feel free to use it if you like.

[ November 12, 2003, 22:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Share your opinions
 

Anyone has an idea of how to fix an asteroid field generated without bitmaps and usually in the same sector as the star? The problem with the lack of image only happens when there's already something else in that sector. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

You can not call for specific sizes of asteroids in SystemTypes.txt.

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, that solved the issue! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

So does that make me psychic? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

Probably a dumb question but, oh well...
How do I make an upload here? Is it possible?
I'm just finishing a beta of Starfleets and would be nice to have it accessible to everyone.

PS: I. Fyron, our anti-psy division will be visiting you shortly. :grin:

Re: Share your opinions
 

You can not at present. The old uploads system was taken down in the forum upgrade, and Shrapnel is looking into a new system to use. How big is the mod? If you can send it via email and it is under 10 MB, send it to admin at spaceempires dot net, and I will post it on www.spaceempires.net for you. If not, then we can work out some other way to get it to me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

Cool http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif , I'll be sending it today (I hope).

Re: Share your opinions
 

10:32 - (Lieutenant) Admiral! Our reconossaince sattelites in Vega system are picking up a large formation crossing that system towards ours.
10:33 - (Admiral) Send all battlestations and battleships a red alert, all interceptors and dreadnoughs defcon4. I want Starfleet Omega on stand by guarding the warp point.
11:01 - (Lieutenant) Sir, our sattelites in Vega system have been shot down. They could relay the hostile Starfleet composition before being exploded: 1 Battleship, 2 Dreadnoughs, 5 Unknown ships, 12 Interceptors , 2 Mine Sweepers and 2 Cruisers.
11:01 - Relay that info to Starfleet Omega, prepare planetary cannons to fire against the unknown ships, launch all interceptors to support our Dreadnoughs and assemble Starfleet Liberty. They are coming...


Prepare yourself, Starfleets mod is near. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

(Sounds so nice this way... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

[ November 16, 2003, 14:07: Message edited by: Admiral Wunderbar ]

Re: Share your opinions
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I look forward to playing your new mod, Admiral Wunderbar http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Share your opinions
 

Sit tight, I just need to speak to Fyron about the release.
And those characteristics have seem some changes, the readme included has all the info. A sneak-peak of the tips section:
" - Consider the roles of your ships. Destroyers are good
all-around in weapons, Cruisers make excellent support
ships, Interceptors can be deadly against other ships
and fighters, Spy Shuttles make short work of planets,
Battleships can either supplement combat or give
enhanced support, Dreadnoughts are excellent in
cleaning defense bases and planetary defenses, and
Baseships are tactical superiority. Not mentioning
that a Scout with sollar collector can travel the
entire galaxy early on."
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 16, 2003, 15:16: Message edited by: Admiral Wunderbar ]