Blockade strategy?
 

Suppose you have some warships in an enemy system, you have troopships but they are busy conquering the enemy homeworld, and you want to blockade another enemy world to try to force surrender or at least prevent new enemy ships from being built there. What strategy can you use to keep your warships from just glassing the place?

I tried making a new strategy called Blockade, with the box checked for Don't Fire at Planets. It didn't work - they glassed it anyways. I thought of using Don't Get Hurt as the movement strategy - would probably work OK if no enemy ships moved into that sector or were built there during the blockade, but would likely get the blockaders killed if any enemy ships were present.

Any more ideas? Is there a way to blockade on purpose, or does it just happen when your ships lack the muscle to glass the place within 30 combat rounds? Or do you just have to leave the place alone until your troops are ready to move in?

SpaceBadger

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

Set them to not fire on planets.

Check out the Ultimate Strategies Mod for lots of cool ideas on strategies (compiled from various mods and user submissions).

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Isn't that what I just said did not work? Is there a different way of doing this than checking that box in the strategy window?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">OK, will have a look. Thanks.

SpaceBadger

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

Is your fleet's strategy set to break formation? If so, the ships default to the strategy used by their design. Set that strategy to have Don't Fire On Planets enabled. Or, keep the ships in formation.

[ November 19, 2003, 05:26: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

I think you have pegged it. I usually go through and set all strategies to have everyone break formation, so probably did that with this one, too. I'll try it again without breaking formations.

Except... hmmm, my Capture Planet fleet strategy has everyone break formation, too, yet it seems to keep on working anyway, so that the gunships bLast the defenses and then quit firing to let the troopships make their assault - even though gunship individual strategies are set to Optimal, they seem to remember that the fleet was set to Capture Planet...

The DefaultStrategies.txt in USM looks very good. I think I will start using it regularly.

You know, what I'd really like is a strategy to let the troopships go ahead and begin their landing while the gunships are still working on the defenses, rather than waiting for the shooting to end. I like to build tough troopships that can land under fire, since that is the way I use them in solo games where I can use tactical combat. Recently I have been trying to work out better ways of using strategic combat, since I won't be able to use tactical on PBW. USM doesn't seem to have a strategy for that, either, so maybe it just doesn't work.

SpaceBadger

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

Puzzlement. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

The two blockade strategies in USM both have all ships set to break formation - yet, presumably, they have been tested and work properly.

Is it possible this will work if set up ahead of time with DefaultStrategies.txt (as in USM), but not work if you try to make a new strategy in-game, as I did?

Hmm, must experiment with this some more...

SpaceBadger

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

I didn't really test USM... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif It is possible that some of the strategies are not quite working as they should. Suggestions for improvement are always welcome.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, you and me both. SOL on that one.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Some of the stratagies in USM were written before the Last patch (or maybe a few patches ago) when ships that broke formation still followed the fleet stratagy. I think that I prefered it that way, because ships are often most effective when they are not locked in a formation, and you probably want to determine stratagies for a FLEET rather than an entire class of ships.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">and then you'll wish that you had your OWN parade of victory formation...

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Did you set the "blockade" strategy to all ship designs in the fleet ? I have no problems blockading planet if all ships have individual "don't fire on planet" strategy.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Capture planet is the exception to the rule that ships that break formation follow their own strategies. Actually it's more complicated then that. Because the ships really do follow their design strategies as far as movement, that's why they mill about the planet aimlessly, or sit motionless rather then go to the corners. They just won't fire on the planet once the weapons platforms are gone if the fleet has capture planet orders and there is a transport with troops in the fleet. You will find that if you attack a planet with the fleet having capture planet orders, but set to break formation, and you do NOT include a transport with troops in the fleet, your ships will quite happily go about glassing the planet. It's a hard coded exception to the normal game logic to make planet capture work right.

Geoschmo

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, I think that is what I was doing wrong. I had the fleet set to Blockade, but with everyone set to break formation, and the ships were still on Optimal.

SpaceBadger

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, Geo. I'm sure I would have gone nuts trying to figure that out by experimentation, not knowing that it is coded differently from the rest.

SpaceBadger

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

If anyone has manage to blockade a planet without every single ship with indivitual 'don't hurt me' orders. (or a similar orders not to fire on planets) I'd like to know about it.
Ships in a fleet with "don't hurt me" orders do not obey them despite being told to stay in formation. It is a bug.
Just as well blockading is for woosies. Nuke it man! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

As Fyron said though blockading is easily accomplished by setting the do not fire on planets option on for whichever strategy is controlling them. This will prevent your ships from glassing the planet, but will still allow them to defend themselves if attacked by ships or fighters. The one draw back is that if attacked, your ships will persue the attackers. This can bring them in range of the planets defenses. If your priority is not to damage the planet and you don't care about losing a few to weapons platform fire this won't be a problem though.

Unfortunatly another problem is that you can't make your ships attempt to capture the planet with troops, and if the invasion fails have them restrain themselves from glassing it. If you set the do not fire on planets, they will not fire, and the transport will not approach the planet because of teh waepons platforms. If you turn off the do not fire, the ships will eliminate the weapons plats and then stop firing. But if the invasion is repulsed they will begin firing again even though the planet is unarmed. What we need is an option to not fire on planets with no weapons platforms, like we have one to not fire on unarmed ships.

Geoschmo

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe I have had fleets set to "Maximum Range", and I set this to not attack planets. The ships in the fleet did not attack the planet. I would have to check to be sure because the individual ship orders may have also been set to MR, so they could have been following that too.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ships have always followed their design strategy instead of the fleet strategy when breaking formation.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you are incorrect there. I think that is what people thought was supposed to happen, but prior to 1.67 patch it did not work right or something. Hence this entry in the history.txt file:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">Version 1.58:
10. Fixed - If a combat piece was in a fleet it would always use the fleet strategy,
even if it had broken formation.</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe that's what Puke was refering to.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

How can I destroy a planet from the maximum weapons range? Even if I select Maximum weapon range for tactic the ship still goes near the planet. It's really annoying when you have better range than weapon platforms.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I have the opposite problem, as my missile ships tend to attack the planet from too far. They launch their missiles at say, range 8, but the seeker does no damage on the planet. Strange.
I tried to destroy a planet from afar, but my ships closed in with the planet as well. Don't ask me why though. (They should not close in, as they will always hit or so even from range eight, given the planet penalties to defence)

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Are you sure they are doing no damage? I have noticed that sometimes my seekers hit the planet, and there is no explosion so it looks like no damage, but they still manage to destroy the defending weapon platforms. Not sure why this is, haven't really made note of when/why it seems to happen.

SpaceBadger

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am sure no damage was done during the whole combat, quite a few times actually. Planets with two weapon-platforms and 20 million settlers were impossible to take down from afar with missiles and Maximal Range. And yes, there were no point-defense on these platforms. Don't ask. I seem to recall there was actually an explosion, but on the "outside" part of the planet. (The eight squares on the border, not the eight inward squares)

[ November 19, 2003, 21:09: Message edited by: Alneyan ]

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

Edit - I probibly shouldn't reply to the first page of a post.

[ November 19, 2003, 21:31: Message edited by: Baron Grazic ]

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

Hey all, been a while since I posted... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Something else to keep in mind when you deselect planets in the types of targets to fire on, be sure that "Use Type Before Targeting Priorities" is enabled.

And for damage to planets at max range, IIRC your range is calculated from the nearest planet "square", but the missiles have to travel to the top-left "square" of the planet in order to do any damage.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Darn. OK, thanks for letting me know.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree. Just because I want to set a few Battle Cruisers to Blockade does not mean I want every BC that I own to be set on that that strategy.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">and then you'll wish that you had your OWN parade of victory formation... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not sure I get you... that is one of your formations from USM, right? I haven't had a chance to try them out yet. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

BTW, what situation is the Stand-Off formation intended for?

SpaceBadger

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">max-range / dont get hurt, target nearest. if you have a fleet with ALOT of seekers, and you plan on relying on your superior range. it targets nearest instead of any of the other criteria you might see in other MR/DGH stratagies so as to avoid being lured into fireing range of one ship while chasing another.

regarding Puke's Parade of Victory, you'll just have to try it with a 35 ship fleet to find out.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Where is that? I only can find "Do not use Type Priorities" and ships keep glassing planets regardless of what is checked or not.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

I have never had luck with blockading so these are just ideas.

Setting both the fleet strategy and the ship strategy to "Don't get hurt" should work. The problem is your ships strat is set by ship design, not by individual ship. Most likely you have your ship designs spread through several fleets and you certainly don't want to cripple your ships in more active fleets with a "Don't get hurt" order.

One thing that might work is to set your fleet orders to "Don't get hurt", "Do not break formation" and "Don't fire on planets", as others have suggested BUT select as your fleet leader a ship that has "Don't get hurt" as its primary strat. IE. a repair ship or minesweeper. This should cause the leader to drag the fleet off to a corner and your attack ships should only fire on targets that happen to come in range.

I've not yet tried this, but it should work.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Missles (or at least Parasites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ) will hit the planet if you enter the planet sector from the top or left. If you enter from the bottom or right there is IMHO a bug that fires your missiles at max range (say 8) when the planet hex is 8 away but the smaller "to hit" square is 9 away. The missiles then reach the planet but will not explode or hurt anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif If you come in from the left the planet will be 8 hexes away and the "to hit" square will also be 8 hexes away so you will hit and kill things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ November 20, 2003, 19:46: Message edited by: Parasite ]

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Where is that? I only can find "Do not use Type Priorities" and ships keep glassing planets regardless of what is checked or not. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's a bit of confusing design... If you toggle "Do not use Type Priorities", the text changes to "Use Type Before Targeting Priorities". And sometimes it doesn't work, I forget what the conditions were.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Missles (or at least Parasites http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ) will hit the planet if you enter the planet sector from the top or left. If you enter from the bottom or right there is IMHO a bug that fires your missiles at max range (say 8) when the planet hex is 8 away but the smaller "to hit" square is 9 away. The missiles then reach the planet but will not explode or hurt anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif If you come in from the left the planet will be 8 hexes away and the "to hit" square will also be 8 hexes away so you will hit and kill things. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Wasn't that fixed in 1.84?

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

I'll check it out, you could be right.

Re: Blockade strategy?
 

Don't waste your frontline ships on blockade duty. Make a specific blockade fleet instead, with only minesweepers, PDC-ships and some minelaying capabilities. They are cheap, and can be built while the main fleet is in training (or retrofitted from antiquated designs). When possible I will use such fleets to blockade enemy planets in frontline systems my main fleet bypass while it strikes for home.

Move the blockade fleet to the planet and let the PDC-ships take care of any defensive fighters. Drop a few mines, leave a PDC ship for blockade and move to the next planet. Repeat (use shift-click to hit several planets in the same turn). Be sure to have some extra ships in the system as you will loose some ships to weapon platforms as your lazy blockade captains sometimes let themselves drift into range http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . Send in the marienes to clean up later.

Be sure to drop the mines though, as sometimes the planet manages to build a siege braker (ship or fighters) before rioting. With a few mines in place over all blockaded planets, the damage will be limited to the one planet.

Done this a couple of times in games, both against the AI's and against humans, and it works like a breeze.