Status of systems not presently seen
 

I have been thinking following thing (like propably many others). If your ship goes through colonized system and then leaves it you immediately lose all the information of that system (except the location of planets and their atmosphere) if you do not take a print screen and glue it onto your wall. This is not situation in real world. It would not be very difficult to do like this (mimicing real world situation):

When your ship leaves system, you still see all those things what you saw whn your ship went throug it. When you would look that system at galaxy map, you would see that view until another ship goes throug that system. There could be little counter at the upper left corner on the system showing how many turns has passed since Last update (so you would be aware of how reliable the screen is). It is that there is no update of ship locations and planet ownerships (mineral status, population, etc.) until next voyage. It would be tremendous enchancement for your game, though, it would make sensors little less useful.

Do we see that on SEV?

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

I second your proposal, I admit I tend to use the System notes just for that purpose. (System Alpha Centauri, controlled by the Fiendish One, sixteen juggernauts sighted closing in with our wormhole.) That is especially true for long games, when you don't even know who owns what systems if you are no longer present there.

Or alternatively, I may launch old savegames just to check what was going on at this peculiar moment. But at any rate, i would like to see such a feature in SEV.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

You could use the "Omnipresent View of all systems" option in your games to get an effect somewhat close to what you've described, but it wouldn't be a snapshot; it would be more like having an invisible satellite in the system(s).

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

The reason this was not done is because it would increase the size of some parts of savegame files (some large parts) by 20 fold... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

I totally agree with this ideas. I hardly ever bother to take notes, and of course some times I regret it.
The computer is much better on recording storing this kind of data than a human being.
This could just be recorded locally, a file is generated when the player views a system for a 1st time each turn. There's no need to send that information to the server, hence turn files will not get bigger.

Omnipresent View of all systems provides real-time data, that is not what is intended.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

i suppose what we need is an adapted Version of Fog of War. you see the basics (colony owners, static installations etc) but thats about it
Wasnt it that way in SE3? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It cannot increase savegame files significantly. Required information is only a few bytes per object. Imagine how many objects you can squeeze, say, to 20 kb?

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

Andres has a point. There is no need to send that data into server. You just keep the galaxy map on your hard drive and server merely updates the views of the systems you see. Does anyone has Aaron's phonenumber? Call him and tell what we need, Hush! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

The philosophy behind the current system is, however, that you can play the turn and have ALL data just by grabbing the result file. Makes it easy to do a turn on any computer with internet connection if you are not at home. Or to rebuild from scratch if you lost your hard drive / computer / whatever.
Changing that as you propose, Karibu, would mean you have to carry around your SE Data with you to the computer where you want to do your turn. And you'd have to keep making regular backups by yourself in case that something goes wrong, because you cannot recover all data from the .gam file.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It cannot increase savegame files significantly. Required information is only a few bytes per object. Imagine how many objects you can squeeze, say, to 20 kb? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes it can... it would have to store the same data that is present for each system in the galaxy, but for every single turn. Or, it would just store the latest Version of what each empire has seen for each system, which would require up to 20 times as much space for all of that information. It takes more than a few bytes to store all of the information for a system, especially when those systems start getting lots of ships and units and such in them.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

I see the problem now. However, it could be an option to choose when game starts. Like random events.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It cannot increase savegame files significantly. Required information is only a few bytes per object. Imagine how many objects you can squeeze, say, to 20 kb? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes it can... it would have to store the same data that is present for each system in the galaxy, but for every single turn. Or, it would just store the latest Version of what each empire has seen for each system, which would require up to 20 times as much space for all of that information. It takes more than a few bytes to store all of the information for a system, especially when those systems start getting lots of ships and units and such in them. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It depends what you consider a few bytes. In a big game a few bytes per player is 10-20 kb, I think. And it's quite a lot of information you can put to that.

Perhaps some numbers would help you. Each planet requires 7 bytes and each ship/unit 2 bytes (ship's name not included, it would require too much space). 1000 planets and 5000 ships are quite a lot, isn't it. And it's only 17 kb per player.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

And just were did you get those numbers? A hat, I presume. You have no idea how MM implemented those objects (and neither do I) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Ship names must certainly be included, as they can be seen. And all of the data you can see for ships, including damage they have if appropriate. It is a bit more than you would imagine...

17 KB per player... you also have to factor in the fact that every empire has to have data stored for whether all those ships/planets can be seen. And then you have to store 21 different Versions of what is in every single system (and then more if neutral races get created mid-game through intel or events). 1 for the actual data, and one for the Last thing every race saw for that system. It gets much larger than just that 17 KB. Sure, you can have optimizations and have an empty byte storing a bool for unexplored systems. But as soon as they become explored, you have to start adding data whenever stuff is seen.

[ December 01, 2003, 22:14: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

17 kilobytes per player doesn't sound so bad. I wouldn't mind having save game files bigger by 17 x (# of players) kB to get this feature.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

17 KB is likely a very small estimate, much smaller than the data necessary would take up...

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

I would also like that feature. Like it's implemented now, scouts are not very usefull for
reconnaisance if you don't take notes.
And like Karibu said, you can make it an option at the start of a game to include this or not. That way, everybody gets what he wants. This is one of those things that i would really like in SE5.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

Furthermore, I think it is not difficult to make the code check if there is this "old sysem view" information on the computer when you open new turn. If it not found, it is simply not included (and your galaxy view is like it is today). This way you can play when you are travelling and not beside your own computer (so when playing your turn any other that your own computer, you just will not get the "old system" information). Granted, this puts travelling players little different position than those who do not travel, but it is still manageable to play. At the end, Travellers do not get any LESS information than today, others just get little more.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not exactly from a hat. I thought what information I see about enemy planets and ships and calculated how much space I need to store that information. Ship names would need a lot of space, at least in some circumstances. 2000 ships with 20 characters names would take 40 kb or less depending what letters are allowed to ship names (how many bits you need per character). I think it's not necessarily to have ship names, class names are enough. And why the damage ships had should be saved? You never see it if you don't have a ships/units with long range scanner in the system.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Information you need for a planet:
resource values 3 bytes
population 2 bytes
coordinates 1 byte
owner 1 byte
total 7 bytes

Information you need for a ship (name not included):
class 1 byte (I assume classes are stored somewhere so you need only the ID of the class)
coordinates 1 byte
total 2 bytes

For units the class are replaced by number of the units and the type of the unit (fighter, satellite...)

Then it's saved for every empire every system they have visited but not see at the moment. To go over 5000 ships and 1000 planets you have to see a very large area. And if you see more than 5000 ships and 1000 planets the savegame file are probably some megabytes, so it's not a big deal if it goes over 17 kb / player.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

Fyron I don't understand why you keep dumping on this idea. It is an excellent idea. Let MM decide if and how it's to be impelmented. It clearly is possible without affecting the transfered file sizes.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

Please don't forget the ability to modify that data. You infect a planet with plauge and know it is losing population. You see a fleet of 100 ships then 100 ships appear at the warp point and (hopefully) get destroyed. I would want to remove that old fleet from the information.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

Not displaying ship names removes some of the RP aspects of the game, so removing them would be a bad idea. They need to be kept.

Not displaying the damage of ships for these overviews is also a bad idea because that is criticial information. If you saw that ships were damaged, why should you have to forget it? That makes no sense. It is extremely useful information when you have it. Unfortunately in stock SE4, the long range scanners are not very useful. But, there are mods that change that.

The data for ships would be much, much larger than 2 bytes. Quite a few for the name, and then 1 for every single component on the ships, to tell if it is damaged or not.

Also, do not forget the fact that it is entirely possible to see the same ship in a whole bunch of systems as your Last visit, especially if you are being followed by them. Do not forget about the worst case scenarios... they make a huge difference.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Please show me where I ever said it was a bad idea or that I did not like the idea. All I have said is that it would increase the size of savegame files by quite a bit. Not in the beginning of the game, but once you start seeing more and more of the map, the extra data to store builds up.

[ December 02, 2003, 21:03: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh?? So now when that info is totally lacking it is better?? I think Asmala was talking about systems you don't have a current view off wich now show nothing. If you could currently see the system then the all info would be displayed as normal. Systems with an old view could easily just display some basic info.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you need to shrink your estimate a bit. Surely the resource values are already stored in the game file and are visible if you have explored a system. (coordinates too).

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you need to shrink your estimate a bit. Surely the resource values are already stored in the game file and are visible if you have explored a system. (coordinates too). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. What if they change? Should you have changing logs then? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif What? I never said that... I was responding to Asmala's claims that you can just ignore that stuff and not save details on it, which is a very bad idea.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They could, but that defeats the purpose. They should show all the info you say before, not magically lose information that you had before. It would be no better than now, still requiring you to load up old savegame files to see all the info you lost.

[ December 02, 2003, 23:33: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you need to shrink your estimate a bit. Surely the resource values are already stored in the game file and are visible if you have explored a system. (coordinates too). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nope. What if they change? Should you have changing logs then? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Now you're just confusing me. So what if they do change? so you see the changed values. Isn't that the way the game works right now?

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

The proposal was to get an accurate picture of the system from the Last time you saw it. If data keeps getting updated in that system where you have no presence, it fails to be an accurate picture of how the system was the Last time you visited it. This is why stuff like planet names, ship names, planet values, etc. must be stored separately for each system's "Last seen" status, in case the actual values on the objects change at a date later than you Last visited that system.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

We would need to have estimation of it from Malfador. Otherwise thi is only speculation at best. Does anyone has any connection there?

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Since in the current game you can see the current planet names and the resources values of the planets in all systems you have explored I see no reason to change this. Sure it would be nice but one thing at a time.
It might be more productive if you spent more time thinking of ways to make this work instead of finding reason why it can't every post.
Even storing just the planet ownership would be very helpfull. Saving all the old turns and opening them to find this info is very cumbersome.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Try looking in the same thread were I said you did say these things.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Obviously you missed the point entirely... I never said it could not work, nor that it would not work. I only ever said that it would increase the size of savegames significantly, and that is why it was not done in the first place in SE4.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes it would.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Funny that I used the same exact thing as an argument against some of what Asmala said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But I never said them... see response to first quote in this post.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be your opinion then, which is not shared by a large percentage of the player base. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The scrap window should have organization options rather than just order built, which will eliminate that problem nicely.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Perhaps. Then, I would suggest that that data be stored somewhere with a date marker until the next time you scan the ships, even if they are in the same system as your ships still.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In stock... do not forget about mods, which are what make this game great to a large percentage of its players (dare I say a majority? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm... yeah. A bool for whether it is damaged or not is the best method. An array of damaged indices is not that good of a solution.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Unless the name changes. Or the damage changes. So, you would have to store that info more than once for each ship when you see them in mutliple systems.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, planet data would not take that much more space. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif 19 more bytes per planet, to tell whether each other empire can see the flag or not. Unless, of course, you want to keep more accurate views of the planet values and names. Why can you scan a system that you have visited at some point, but can see no data at all on planets in systems you have been to? Some scanning would be necessary to justify seeing changes in name and values. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No idea. I believe they did back in SE3, but that ability was lost in SE4. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I am sure someone has mentioned it in all this time. But, sending it to MM will make him aware that it is an issue to more players. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It would indeed be great if ships were ordered by class in the scrap window, but luckily ship classes are under ship names so it's not a big deal to select ships. Unless there are hundreds of ships, but these situations are fortunately rare. When I see a fleet of 100 ships I don't know which one is which class, all their name are same very old desing. Now if I'd like to know how many sweepers, what kind sensors or what is the supply situation of the fleet I'd have to click through every ship. And that's annoying.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be a good idea but actually the discussion here concerns the status of systems not presently seen. Storing the condition of all scanned ships is more space consuming than storing just what you have seen.

Is there any mods which use a lot of long range scanners? I think it should be improved a lot, for example scanning automatically all nearby ships and storing scanned designs.

It wouldn't be a problem to save all information about scanned ships. If you have 200 ships in your scanner range, are you really going to click them all through? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Thus the amount of space needed for scanned ships is directly proportional the number of ships scanned (=clicked) and I believe even 100 would be a lot then.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's no repair components in some mods?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Err... nope. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The best method would be combined. First a bool if a ship is damaged at all. If no obviously there's no need for further data about components. If a ship has a few destroyed components, the index of each component are given. If many components are destroyed, then a bool for every component if it's broken or not.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I dare to say this is quite unusual situation. Think about it, you're chased by a fleet of 1000s of ships, the name of every ship is changed every turn, all of those ships took damage every turn, you have scanners present and manually click through all ships every turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif If all conditions aren't met then the required space for data isn't very big.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">19 bytes to tell which empires see the planet? Now I don't wonder why you think there's going to be such a big increase in savegame files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I think 2.5 bytes would be enough.

But your approach to this savegame issue is different than mine Fyron. Have you all the time thought I mean there is one planet data and then flags for empires who see it. It's not practical and it won't work because all empires have a different view about that planet depending when they have left from the system. I mean every empire has its own data for every system the empire doesn't presently see.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

Hmm, I think that was my longest post ever http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

Why does "repeat build" only repeat the first thing on the list? I'd like to set up 5 or 6 things to build and set it to repeat. But it only repeats the first item on the list.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Adamant, for example, removes the Scattering Armor and makes Scanner Jammers 50 kT. Want to be paranoid and protect all ships from scanners? Gonna cost you a lot of space and you don't get ECM out of it even. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I might want to (or someone else might want to). So it has to be stored.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What if I want to see a different ship's damage on a later turn than I viewed originally?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No... some mods are designed to end battles with a huge number of damaged components (specifically, 1 kT armor components). P&N, B5 Mod, Adamant, etc. Repairing a bunch of such damaged ships takes a while, unless you go overboard on the repair ships in your fleets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The fact that all of those could happen means that it has to be taken into account. Optimizations should be used, of course. Frequent name changes are not common. But frequent changes in damaged status can very will be (especially in some mods http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You need a bool for each other empire... 1 byte per bool, 19 bools, 19 bytes. Unless you are writing your own programming language and can make custom sized variables... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know about that.... well, other than you keep wanting to drop necessary data that must be stored. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No. That was started in response to a very specific suggestion, actually made by DavidG. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is what I have been saying... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 03, 2003, 18:03: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Because that is how it works. It repeats the first item, not the whole queue. A new "repeat queue" order should be added.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I might want to (or someone else might want to). So it has to be stored.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He who wants to click through 200 ships to scan them all please raise your hand. What? I see no hands. But it's my greatest pleasure to click through all 200 ships every time I see them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You haven't clicked the ship, you haven't scanned the ship, you can't have the ship's information. That's the way long range scanners work now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The fact that all of those could happen means that it has to be taken into account. Optimizations should be used, of course. Frequent name changes are not common. But frequent changes in damaged status can very will be (especially in some mods http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fyron, you can't be serious. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif You mean you think seriously that someone clicks through 1000 ships each turn to get a information about possible damage changes, and over 1% of ships has different damage status than earlier. That's like you'd make the game to use 32-bits integer numbers for number of components in case someone like to add that many components http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I thought there goes 8 bools in a byte...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. It seems we have a different definition for "necessary" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You would be surprised...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Either way, that data needs to be stored in the Last system seen info stuff.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You would be surprised. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is just silly. You use a vector so it doesn't matter and there is no limit to the number of comps that can be added to a ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I guess it depends on the programming language. C++ bools are 1 byte. 0 is false, any other value is true (and those values can be lots of things other than just 1 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). MM uses Delphi, which IIRC is similar to C++.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, you regard necessary information as unnecessary. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The thing is, people do make use of this questioned information, so it has to be stored. Otherwise, you would tick off a portion of the fan base.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They can be kept then. If you have 1000 ships which are named like Devastator 0001, Devastator 0002 etc. it's very easy to compress those names quite effectively. Personaly I don't need the names and it's annoying to see the ship's name instead of class when you click a sector containing enemy ships. If ships are retrofitted you have to click each one to know its class.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't understand this. You can't see the damage of ships if they move out of scanner range so why you have to see it when you move out of the system? Besides the damage is useful only 2-3 turns because then the ships are repaired.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There's no point to store the status of each component, 99% of components aren't broken so it's better to list only broken components.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If it's the same ships you can just add second coordinates to ships' data, which means only one byte more.

If ship data is too much what about planet data. Even Fyron have to admit that storing planets' data can't take much space. Ships are moving quite a lot so that's not very useful information.

This is offtopic but was MM informed that long range scanned ships doesn't come to "enemy ships designs"?

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why? If you don't have the data why it needs to be stored? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It it indeed depends on the programming language. C++ bools are 1 byte, but it's not difficult to make a new class which stores 8 bools to one char. I have never programmed with Delphi, but I believe it's possible to make bools of one bit if necessary.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You mean if MM makes a new addition so an empire can see systems like they were when the empire Last saw them, but the ship names and damage isn't included, it would tick off a portion of the fan base? You have a funny way to draw conclusions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

I rename each game file to the name+turn number. The logs and combat replays will not work, but you can view systems and click through ships. It is a pain and having it on the current screen would be better.

The point is that maybe ALL the detail is not needed, maybe just enough to show you you need to look deeper.

[ December 04, 2003, 15:58: Message edited by: Parasite ]

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If the Last thing you saw was a ship with long range scanners that got destroyed, then the Last thing you saw was scans of the ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Although you may not enjoy roleplaying your empire, there are a lot of people that do. Ship names are just one aspect of the RP supported by SE4. MM has made efforts to increase the amount of RP in the game from SE3 to SE4, so I doubt they would be willing to add a feature that cuts any of it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Last scan should be stored anyways even for ships you can see that are not in scanner range. What, your scan logs get wiped every day? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Having just a tiny amount of the detail is not a lot better than no detail, because you still have to look into the old savegame files to get the lacking information...

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Only those ships' damage status have to be saved which are clicked (=scanned). If each ship needs average 30 bytes (which should be enough) it would need enormous amount of clicks to cause significant increase in savegame file. Even 10000 clicks are only 300 kb which isn't very much. When there is 10000 ships in a game the savegame file is even currently many megabytes. And I really want to meet someone who clicks through 10000 ships, it would require dozens of hours of clicking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Could you explain to me how this feature would cut any RP aspects of this game? Now all of planets properties (resource values, atmosphere, rock/ice/gas/asteroid) are updated even if you have no presence in a system. Modifying this so you see the planets like they were when you saw them Last time, somebody could say it adds more RP aspects. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Absolutely true, the scans should be stored. But I think this scanner-hassle and status of systems not presently seen are different topics. Perhaps a new thread should be created for this scanner debate.

Re: Status of systems not presently seen
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It depends what that tiny amount of detail is. I would be extremely pleased if only the owners of planets are stored. Are you often looking old savegame to get the knowledge if some ship has damaged components? (Can I guess your answer: "You would be surprised..." http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )