OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

At school, i was recently read an article to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif that presented some interesting ideas, and i got thinking. Deep in it all, are chats and emails are such a good idea? Of course, easy to discuss and talk, some people are more talkative, but the drawbacks? I've realized that people build whole new personalities Online (i intentionally avoided that), talk the way they wouldn't in real life. And beyond all of that, friendships - my age-group mostly live in msn. at least the people i talk to. and somehow, i find that when you talk to a person too much on chats (mainly MSN for me lately) and not enough in real-world, you just lose the hang of it... friendship loses its... 'magic'? and things become dull. And as i think about it, i dont usually even see the people on my buddy lists save for school, but chat a lot Online. And... its wrong. Online friendships feel wrong to me.
I've been trying to get a long time friend of mine, who's now overseas after i left the country, Online. Then i realized... its better off with the phone and the snail-mail.

It is an idea i found interesting. Anyone else has any thoughts? Overall, just thought i'd share my thoughts on the subject.

[ December 04, 2003, 05:39: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

well, while reading your post, the thought that the verbal-emotional side of it is missing Online was percolating through my thoughts.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

lost you, missing in the post?

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

well, you don't hear tone of voice on the internet.

which is a bit of a downside, since i'm pretty good with mine. and i can do funny, made-up accents pretty easy.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

yes, you got it. i can rant about downsides of chats, but i wont as its just a waste of forumspace http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

Silly Taera... get Yahoo IM and a microphone (and your friend needs one too). Then, you can voice chat all you want! No need for typing at all. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif You can even use a cheap 10-15 dollar microphone, and they work great. A little lag sometimes, but so what? Lose none of the tonal inflection of speech. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

its not the same. its not about the speech fyron, not even the facial expressions... its just the physically being with the other person that is missed in the world of bytes, and physically being somewhere. also, chats are easy to drift away from, and lose creditability as most things people say cant be checked, so have to be believed in..

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

Umm... it was about the statement that you would rather do phone conversations and snail mail than chatting... voice chat handles the phone conversations nicely, and is free.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

that was an extention, my post is split to two - first saying that chats and emails lack what the real chats have to offer, and then i said that chats etc are a little unreal and i'd rather have phone and snail-mail. sorry, i dont follow standard rant (aka essay) format that they teach me in English http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

I find it easyer to type, my voice gets tired quickly, and if the conversation gets boring its WAY easyer to dismiss yourself to go do something else.

and besides, there is no such thing as "an awkward silence"

though I do understand what you mean taera.
frendships over the net are umnn "cheap" for want of a better word. you dont have to work hard at them. you can come and go as you please, you dont have that "rubbing" which knocks all the sharp edges off you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

fek, man. phone, mail, internet be danmed. the point is to get your sorry ovoid posterior off the swivel chair, on to your atrophied legs, correct your permanently hunched posture, and get the hell outside. talk to some real people, breath some real air, and try and learn how to interact in the real frickin world.

I swear man, I hate "internet people" in all shapes and sizes. they are all such inane screw heads, wraped up in their banal ideas and artificial self images, and sooo goddanmed high and mighty while they are chatting away at people they will never meet - but they probably cant look at anything besides their own shoes when they are walking down the street.

Now mind you, that the Shrapnel board is the exception to the rule, and you mooks are the only people that I can suffer to talk to Online. a right smart mature, educated, and rational bunch we have here. well, except me. and maybe Narf. and all the guys in the cantina. and definitly the name changing thread. But basically a good bunch, other than that!

I tend to type here the same way that I talk in real life, except in real life im mercifully interupted more often, so it does not go on for as long. and you can tell me to shut up because ive been drinking in real life, where as thats sort of hard to diferentiate Online. actually, this is sort of inarticulate stream of consiousness bull****, so i guess i dont talk this way. but you GET THE IDEA. The same problem existed in the BBS days, and its only worse now that more people are Online. If you were around in the BBS days, its interesting to see what was a small scale social blemish then, grow and mutate as millions of people partake in the folly and popular culture spreads it like the plague. same basic animal, but strangely and sickly different.

As Taera preemptively pointed out, this post is a waste of forum space. ignore it (ha! already read to the end!) and moderate me down.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

The post below mine is a waste of forum space.

HA! FINALLY A USE FOR THIS HORRIBLE REVERSE FORUM ORDER! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

i've always found the people that tell everyone their losers becuase said people have all these freinds in 'real life' to be obnoxious.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Umm... that is exactly what I said...

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

then on that, fyron, we agree

puke - umm, right http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif seriously, you got my idea

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I really should not be arguing this, but the fact that people put 'real life' in quotes these days, drives my point home. but hey, i dont have a messiah complex, so i dont actually care what people do with their time.

its raining, and im going to take a quick walk to the pub. feel free to spend your time as you please, and interact with the world as you see fit.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I really should not be arguing this, but the fact that people put 'real life' in quotes these days, drives my point home. but hey, i dont have a messiah complex, so i dont actually care what people do with their time.

its raining, and im going to take a quick walk to the pub. feel free to spend your time as you please, and interact with the world as you see fit. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Most of us that put real life in quotes do it because the ussual internet *******s use "hey, this isn't real life, deail with it!" as an excuse to insult people. Reality check, asile three, you're still dealing with people.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

my computer's real and i'm alive.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

Lol, you know why I like internet conversations? Because I live in the middle of nowhere! Seriously, I don't have my drivers licence yet, so my social contact is limited to my immediate family, my (very few) friends at school, and the very occaisional party my parents let me go to. Sure, chats and emails are usually void of emotion, and all the things that make life personal and interesting. But no one can deny their usefullness. Can't find someone, send them an email. Stuff like that. And I don't know about you, but I talk the exact same on chats and emails as I do in everyday, personal conversations. I don't make up a veneer to make people think I'm someone I'm not. I know who I am, and the people I talk to know what I'm like. I only talk to people who know me in person. It keeps things real. But that's just my opinion.

Renegade 13

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

lol, your so true R13, and i agree with you there, i was just a bit upset about the overuse of those tools, i'm reviewing my own use of them... the results made me think, and post this post. bulletin' Boards are okay in my book, as long as they're used for information exchange purposes as opposed to chat/email replacements as ive seen in some places

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

Emoticons quite clearly help to convey emotion... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

yes, but there not instinctive

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

So? The meaning can nearly always be infered from the context. It takes little time to figure out how a person uses smileys that you are chatting with.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

yes, but it doesn't have the emotional connections of a tone of voice. it's learned.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

I'll go for some good offline time anyday. As somebody who moved to the other side of the world from my family/friends (don't ask me, it seemed like a good idea at the time) I have found I rarely talk to any of my old buddies Online much at all. Of course, every time I go home for a visit it is a great time, but it is just different talking to them Online.

Now my parents on the other hand, I would rather talk to them Online, a question comes up I don't want to answer? I have to step out....

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So use voice chat... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

i'm talking about smiley's, typing chat, forums and email. silly vorlon.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

Well if you want tone of voice, use voice chat. Of course typing does not have the same tonal inflections as speech. I never said it did, nor that smileys added that either, just that smileys help to convey emotion. Tone of voice is not the only thing that can convey emotion. Written word can do so fairly reasonably, and smileys can enhance the effect at times.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

well, ok then. but i still say somethings a bit lacking with smiley's and text.

but if we're agreeing, what are we arguing about? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

Yes, something is lacking. Smileys do not convey the full meaning, just help it along.

We do not agree on the part about chat lacking emotional context. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

well, not totally lacking. just not as good.

just in case that needed clarifying, to.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">[jokeing]Oh sure, how many times has we heard someone say that they can use the dark arts for good purposes? how does it always turn out?[/jokeing]

all kidding aside, R13 is very much correct.

another thing that comes to mind, regarding how people behave Online and off: of all the people you know offline, how many of them behave differently when they are with just one or two other people, than they behave in a large group? Most people put on a totally different personality when they are in a group. How many of them put on a different personality when around the oposite sex, or even use a different tone of voice when they are on the phone with their girlfriend?

its not just an Online phenominon. if you take a step back and look at it, its all really quite absurd.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

puke, your correct in that too, its just that usually Online the bad sides of people come out. why? because sometimes others wont even know who's that... ive seen it

fyron - you might now realize why i use so many smilies in my Posts, and still smilies dont convey emotions. why? because human emotions are untranslatable. dont even argue.

EDIT: and... i found myself unable to hold Online contact with my friends overseas that i left when i moved to Canada

[ December 05, 2003, 06:40: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

personally, i act nicer Online. i have more time to consider my replies.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

I definitely use a different style to speak Online, for reasons beyond my control.

One - the written word is more formal than the spoken word, especially if, like me, you choose to write in English and not in some kind of net slang.

Two - lack of nonverbal cues (such as tone of voice) means I have to make an extra effort to make myself clear, which means I end up using more words than I would offline.

Three - My offline conversations are in Portuguese, but most of what I write Online is in English, and that has an effect. Portuguese, especially our variety of it, has (for lack of a better word) a much 'friendlier' tone than English.

I try to balance my Online and offline lives, but Online relationships are always accessible - you connect and there you are - while my offline friends for the most part live some distance away and have busy schedules of their own. I don't really have much in common with the people in my immediate area, so after I get home from work (and before my wife arrives - her schedule doesn't match mine either) if I want to talk to someone it has to be Online.

That being said, I don't do chat. I stick to Yahoo Groups/Intel Forums/e-mail.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

"its not just an Online phenominon. if you take a step back and look at it, its all really quite absurd."

Hardly absurd. It can be taken to absurd lengths, sure, but in its most basic form its a defense mechanism. The larger the crowd, the more likely it is you don't know everyone well. Treating strangers differently from friends is a good thing; they're not known quanities and you don't know how they'd react.

And Fyron, I had to say it eventually: I just ignore your smilies, because you use them so much and I can't tell what you're using them for.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

Chats, Boards, and emails offer many types of communication that can't easily be achieved in other ways.

There are some negative aspects, such as miscommunication, twits, lack of face-to-face interaction, and so on.

Those negative aspects don't make computer communications bad; they are just things to be aware of, and good reasons not to use them for communication that can be easily done in person.

In-person communication is much better for most things, but incovenient or impossible for some things (e.g., discussing rare issues with niche fans from around the world, such as this forum).

Don't let computers suck you away from in-person communication. But also, don't be afraid to use computers in moderation, as long as you're not losing control. I guess it's a better thing to be hooked on than mind-altering substances, or TV.

PvK

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

i would like to add a bit to the discussion here, what do you think people, why is there such a difference between e-mail and snail mail between people? (not business) because i can surely say there is, and dont know anyone who wouldn't agree, but i cant put a finger on it.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

I've heard it said that more than half of all communication is non-verbal. Emoticons are better than nothing, I suppose, but there is really no substitute for being able to sit in the same room as the people with whom you are trying to communicate.

On the other hand, seeing as how I too live in a remote area, I would not be communicating with anyone who frequents these Boards by any other means. I'd actually rather be in a tavern somewhere, but that can get expensive, not to mention hard on the liver.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would disagree. It is all about how you treat them. It is quite easy to treat electronic mails identically to snail mails. You just have a false romantic sense (in a loose definition of the word) from the time it takes for snail mail to travel and the fact that it is a physical object, so it seems like they are more meaningful. But the fact is, they are not. They can have the exact same meaning. Also, the hand written as opposed to typed nature contributes, as it gives a sense of it being more personal. If this is important, go get a scanner (they are cheap these days), write your letters on paper, scan them, and then email them. Have your correspondants do the same. This will eliminate all differences save the time delay. You can get around that simply by agreeing to wait a bit to send off or write the letter.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

romantic sense? perharps http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif but fyron, i did not mean "myself" though, i know a lot of people and not a single one who doesnt see things in the same way i do.

Re: OT: Rant & Thoughts - Chats and Emails
 

Your friends cover a very narrow portion of the spectrum then if they all feel the same. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif