New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

2/8 players already in. 6 more needed.

General description:
A fun game, nothing wild, the ticks are reasonably slow too and the sky's the limit... I expect players to send their ticks in faster in the first 30 or so turns.

GAME SETTINGS. Listed in order of appearance in SE IV (read carefully, I will only write this once:)
1. QUADRANT
Quadrant Type: Mid-Life
Quadrant Size: Medium
General Options:
All warp points connected: YES
All player planets the same size: YES
2. EVENTS
Event Frequency: High
Maximum Event Severity: Catastrophic
3. TECHNOLOGY
Technology Cost: Medium
Technology Areas Allowed: (everything is enabled)
4. PLAYER SETTINGS
Starting Resources for Player: 20.000
Home Planet Value: Good
Number of Starting Planets: 3
Empire Placement:
Allowed to start in same system: NO
Evenly distributed through the quadrant: YES
Score Display: Player can view scores of all allied players
Technology level for New Player: Low
Racial points for New Player: Medium (3000)
PLAYERS:
Random Computer Players:
Generate Random controlled Empires: YES
Generate Random controlled Neutral Empires: NO
Number of Computer players: Medium
Computer player difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: Medium
VICTORY CONDITIONS:
Quadrant is completely at peace for 2.0 years
Victory conditions take affect after 10.0 years
GAME SETTINGS:
Maximum number of units: 5000
Maximum number of ships: 1000
Cheat codes: NO
Team mode: NO
No tactical combat: NO
Players can see complete tech tree: YES
Allow gifts\tributes: YES
Allow technology gifts\tributes: NO
Allow surrender: NO
Allow intelligence projects: NO
No Ruins on planets: NO
Players can only colonize planets with a breathable atmosphere: NO
Players can only colonize home planet type: NO
Players can save the map during game: NO
MECHANICS:
Play Style: Different machines
Turn style: Simultaneous movement
Multiplayer Game Filename: DOoE

THE GENERAL RULES OF CONDUCT are as follows:
- If you miss 7 ticks and don't advise us in advance, you will get deleted.
- Since people have lives outside SE IV (Incredible yes, but not impossible), you can ask IN ADVANCE for up to a weeks pause in the game to go visit your grandma in Scotland. After a week you can of course miss up to 7 more ticks (if you also happen decide to go visit your mother in law in the Death Valley)
- If the players vote on it we can pause the game indefinitely.
- Noone becomes a terrorist and forms an "Axis of Evil" (copyright George W. Bush inc.) because he lost his/her home system to a Star destroyer.
- If someone keeps missing turns on a regular basis the other players can vote him/her out. (say u miss 3 turns every week)
- Don't play SE IV and drive. The consequences can be dire.
- Anything else your sick game master comes up after a late night out.

If you've read all this and agree to become a slave to your computer and this game of SE IV, join us.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What is meant by this?

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

[quote]Originally posted by JurijD :

Quote:

ticks are reasonably slow too

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What would you consider reasonalbly slow to be?

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly what is says:) What did u think it meant:)

An old European joke, too bad if Americans from colorado don't get it:) Think hard... hehe

[ December 10, 2003, 23:08: Message edited by: JurijD ]

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

It's your rule, man. If you want it followed you would better serve your own needs to make it clear.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">you're joking right? Or did you actually miss the 100% cristal sparkling clear and obvious fact that that "rule" was intended as a J.O.K.E :-)

that clear enough for 'ya?

[ December 10, 2003, 23:31: Message edited by: JurijD ]

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

Sure.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

JurijD, not sure where the sarcasm towards Loser is coming from, but it's really not warranted or constructive for the situation. He was simply expressing a completely valid question about a game rule that was vague at best. You will learn if you host very many games that these house rules are the #1 source of confusion and conflict among players. It's very easy to have a game ruined over what can seem to be simple misunderstandings. Intentionally confusing the issue by placing "joke" or bogus rules is just asking for trouble. Everyone likes a joke, but make sure everyone knows it's a joke. You will regret it in the long run if you don't.

Not trying to sound like I am coming down on you, cause I am not. Just trying to share a little experience to help you avoid a bad situation.

Geoschmo

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Sarcasm??? Where ... eee, get it off me!!! Phew, glad u told me that was there, I don't like sarcasm on me, it always give me a rash.

hehe excuse me but... well I can't believe that anyone over 5 years would confuse that joke with a rule http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif And anyone who does... well I can't say he or she is welcome to join the game because if you can't take a joke you're too geeky for this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I think that Loser is just a fan of George W. and was hurt by my remark http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif You people take this game too seriously....

And why didn't u trip over the : Don't play SE IV and drive. The consequences can be dire. "RULE" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You're coming down on me? Where? How? Do I need to take an aspirin before u do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ? Do you have some kind of anti-grav device?

P.S.: Thanks for the help, really don't need any in that area. Oh and I really hope this is the end of this "subject" because this discussion is as silly as anything on FOX.

[ December 11, 2003, 11:37: Message edited by: JurijD ]

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

JurijD and Roanon, I think you both are misunderstanding me completely. Actually, I can't speak for Loser, but the comment about GW is not at all what confused me. I did consider that part of the sentance to be a joke and was not in the least offended by it. I have a much thicker skin then that, as most reasonable people do. Anyway, even if taken offensively (which I did not do) your comment wasn't directed at me personally, but at the Prez. Americans have a long history of making fun of our leaders.

The question in my mind was whether you were suggesting an actual concrete house rule for the game in a joking manner. "Noone becomes a terrorist and forms an "Axis of Evil" <snip> because he lost his/her home system to a Star destroyer." read in that context could mean any number of things.

Does the rule mean if someone takes out my homesystem I can't retaliate? I can't make an alliance if neccesary and go after the empire that blew up my sun? That seems to me a preposterous rule, but it also seems that is what you are suggesting. That is the reason that you needed to clarify the rule, not because of your offhanded tease at GW.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Beacuse that is more obviously intended to be purely a joke, and it doesn't relate at all to behavior in the game which is the only thing that is the perogative of a game owner anyway. You could just as likely say, "No eating crackers while playing" and noone would take it seriously because it's none of your business what we eat while playing, and how would you know if we did anyway? The other rule is more like something that would be your business as the game owner, and something close enough to legitimate rules people have suggested in the past that it seemed possible you did intend for it to be taken seriously, in substance if not in presentation.

Geoschmo

[ December 11, 2003, 13:25: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Beacuse that is more obviously intended to be purely a joke, and it doesn't relate at all to behavior in the game which is the only thing that is the perogative of a game owner anyway. You could just as likely say, "No eating crackers while playing" and noone would take it seriously because it's none of your business what we eat while playing, and how would you know if we did anyway? The other rule is more like something that would be your business as the game owner, and something close enough to legitimate rules people have suggested in the past that it seemed possible you did intend for it to be taken seriously, in substance if not in presentation.

Geoschmo </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Only one thing Geoschmo ... consider switching to decaff. Bcause someone that WASTES so much time writing about a JOKE someone made on some obscure board in a galaxy far far away, really has too much time on his hands.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

Uh oh, looks like a derail.

I could tell there was some joke there, sure, but I thought you might have some rule behind it. It was a little too long and complicated, it seemed, to be simply a political jab. So I did what any reasonable person would do, I checked. The driving one was pretty good, though.

Second, if I had my way George W. Bush would never have been on the Republican nominee for president. While I respect the man and the office, and agree with many of his goals, the means by which he has reached some of these ends have been very disappointing. And then there are the speeches.... What I wouldn't give for another Douglas MacArthur, or even a Reagan or Nixon behind the podium, speaking in a fashion more fitting the leader of the free world.

But I voted for him, in fact I registered as a Democrat so I could vote against Gore twice. I have a grudge against Gore for his terrible treatment of the hackish culture (Clipper Chip, Steve Jackson Games, "During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet."), for his populist attitudes, and for his censor-happy wife.

In fact, if nothing catastrophic happens in the next year, Bush is likely to be re-elected, but only because the only other party people take seriously isn't offering any decent alternatives. The current front-runner, Dean, has been building his reputation as a Bush-Hater since he started. This is going to do a great job of swaying loyal Democrats, which he needs to get the nomination, but will alienate that oh-so-important undecided 20% that the Democrats need to secure the presidency. Add on top of it all that he is also a populist, so I can tell you I won't be voting for him either.

So yeah, four more years of Bush. But it's the fault of the Democrats as much as it's the fault of the Republicans.

Just to let you know, I'm Independent, having un-registered from the Democratic party after voting in their Primary. I give my loyalty to neither of these two behemoths, and would rabidly support the Libertarians if they could ever get their act together and offer a platform acceptable to the general public.

And that will be it. Not gonna post in this thread again. Done enough damamge. Ee-yup.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

I happen to live somewhere in Europe, and still I didn't realize it was a joke. (Apart from the comment on Dubya that is, this part was clearly a joke, although what it has to do with a PBW game I wonder) Last time I checked, I was slightly older than five as well. The "noone becomes a terrorist because he lost his homeworld" could very well apply to some tactics I thought of involving guerilla and scorched earth schemes, and I can even see a reason why it *might* be forbidden by some house rules.

These joking rules were also among proper house rules, which is somewhat annoying. And once again, you will have a hard time convincing me there *were* needed for some obscure purpose.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They probably take George W. and his "Axis of Evil" stuff too seriously - they probably don't understand that he and his like remarks are pure jokes here in Europe. After all, they will probably vote for him (again)... what do you expect... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I figured that much. Why does every discussion here turn out to be a EUvsUS dabate:)

And another thing... they can't vote in George W. AGAIN as they didn't even vote him in the first time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In reality only something like 37,9% of the total US population voted for him, but because of the insane and totally out-dated electoral system the US uses he got over 50% of the ELECTORAL votes (wel... apparently even that had to be decided by a court... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif )

I mean why in gods name would someone count the votes in one state, decide who won in that particular state and then assign a specific number of electoral votes from that state to the federal vote... I mean talk about a stupid voting system.

I don't know any European (or other democratic ) country that uses this kind of inaccurate system to elect its head of military and all around big chief (a.k.a. the president).

I mean historically it was kinda justified... as some states that were formed before others (especially the oroginal 13) wanted to have more POWER in saying who gets to be the president... more even thnt their % of total US population at that time would allow if they would just add up all the votes cross the US.

But today... state A can haev an equal number of electoral votes as state B even though they might have very different total pupulations. ...Add this up over the entire union and you'll see how the americans elected George W. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I say either "up-date" the number of electoral votes each state gets to more accuratey reflect their total population OR ... dismiss this silly system alltogether and just do the math like everyone else...

[ December 11, 2003, 13:56: Message edited by: JurijD ]

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ok, well obviously you aren't interested in having a reasonable discussion about an aspect of your game rules that was possibly unclear.

Just one thing for you and then I will drop it.

As lead administrator for PBW, and moderator for this forum I get a lot of complaints from game owners and players about stuff going on in games that is "gamey", or "cheating", or "dishonarable", or "against the rules". In my mind 99% of it is stupid and people should just get over it and play, it's a game after all. But I am tolerant of others feelings enough to realize that some people take games a little more seriously that others do, and feelings can be hurt. So my official stance on these things is that they shuld aways be as clear as possible to avoid and conflict, and when it happens I try to facilitate a resolution that everyone can accept.

It is my sincere hope that everyone in your game understands all your house rules in the context you intend and there are no disputes about it or conflicts.

But if there is, please remember you were warned and don't come to me expecting me to do anything about it.

Geoschmo

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

FOR THE LAST TIME:
1. The joke IS between the rules, yes!
2. and I like it there... people should have a laught every now and then, even if they are reading my rules...
3. if aynone has a problem with that... TOUGH.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

[quote]Originally posted by geoschmo:

Quote:

In my mind 99% of it is stupid and people should just get over it and play, it's a game after all. But I am tolerant of others feelings enough to realize that some people take games a little more seriously that others do, and feelings can be hurt. So my official stance on these things is that they shuld aways be as clear as possible to avoid and conflict, and when it happens I try to facilitate a resolution that everyone can accept. It is my sincere hope that everyone in your game understands all your house rules in the context you intend and there are no disputes about it or conflicts. But if there is, please remember you were warned and don't come to me expecting me to do anything about it. Geoschmo

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Listen, read my comment about decaff once again. And for the love of god stop replying to this silly discussion. You make it sound like someone actually cares...

And another thing... HOW?? could anyone understand that as a RULE... I mean... don't go and form a terrorist network... OMG. You people are ... well spend too much time here.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You keep saying not to respond, and yet you keep making comments like this that compel me to do so. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

It's called "role playing". Many people enjoy playing the part of the "pissed off terrorist", or the "evil emporer" out to conquer the universe. That's what attracted me to the game in the first place. It's all part of the game.

And yes, I can very much assure you from my experience that many, many people care very much about house rules. It causes some of most persistant and heated discussions. That and politics. You've managed to get both of those into one discusion. Congradulations. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Geoschmo

Edit: By the way, I don't drink coffee.

[ December 11, 2003, 14:14: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

You know, Geoschmo does have some free time on his hands, but I wouldn't believe it is wasted. Or do you mean his efforts to keep PBW running are also a mere waste of time (and money as well)?

So, the key word here is "terrorist". As you can tell, the root of this word is "terror", which basically means a terrorist is someone who uses terror. However, you would have to consider what kind of terror is used. A terrorist Empire could very well be an Empire relying on attacks on civilians, lurking in storms, launching attacks against passing transports, and so on. It is called terror as well. (Of course, in the Real World, terrorism mainly describes bombings and other such acts, but the world could also apply to regimes instead of networks/individuals)

That's why you could actually consider this joke was indeed a rule, preventing some tactics for some obscure reason. Heck, even mines could fall under this too generic definition, or drones, or even carpet bombing a planet, among a lot of other possible actions within the game. Thus the misunderstandings that happened on this forum, as the term "terrorism" is way too generic and could apply to too many situations within SEIV.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

when i read it, i figured it meant that people were not supposed to team up on each other. then i was wondering if it meant that people should not break treaties without warning, or use a treaty to sneak passed defenses and attack from the rear, or something like that.

but as for this thread, its totally out of hand. people seem to be asking reasonable questions, or calmly trying to explain what they mean, and JuriD is totally flying off the handle at them, making rather insulting jokes. now i dont care alot about politics, and dont like the president a whole lot, so thats not the issue here.

the issue is what seperates the Shrapnel and SE4 community from the rest of the internet. what seperates us from them, is you dont find **** like this in our commuinty. so get it the heck of this board.

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I really agree with that.

I thought the notorious rule meant that players are not allowed to gang up against somebody if he had done something which is considered as gamey.

It's amusing to follow this debate: you get the feeling it's a grown-up against a teen-ager. And guess who is who http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

I was just trying to help the guy avoid a potential problem down the road, and instead ended up causing a problem now. No good deed goes unpunished. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

I couldn't quite understand that rule either (Didn't even consider it to be a joke, understood the "evil axis" reference but thought it meant something for the game.... (European , 35 years old).
As game host I can vouch that rules do get debated, even the "obvious" ones. And a "joke" rule as that will be debated forever. Making it hard being a host!
So try to keep things clear, that's what I've learned so far.


Just some examples....
Don't go form a terrorist network:
-Secret alliances not declared in the treaty grid?
-Large alliances with more than half the players ganging up on one or a few of the others?
-Alliances that share resources and technology freely within ?
-One or two players playing several races in the same game, without the others knowing?
-Starting the game with a pre-arranged alliance?

[ December 11, 2003, 19:02: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

I didn't get the rule, that's what told me it was a joke. Most of US latest policy is really hilarous over in Europe, so I expected a joke.

*EDIT*
There are, what, ten such threads on this forum alone?


What can I say about a possible rules buried in the joke? If your opponent has researhed star destroying technology, and has spent the 25 turns to build it, and you have no defences in place -- you lost anyway.

[ December 11, 2003, 20:24: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

Geo joked:

Quote:

No good deed goes unpunished.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Well then Geo, you've done so many good deeds for this community you're bound to wind up in Hades! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: New PBW Game: Deep Oceans of Europa
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They probably take George W. and his "Axis of Evil" stuff too seriously - they probably don't understand that he and his like remarks are pure jokes here in Europe. After all, they will probably vote for him (again)... what do you expect...