Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Oh come on you fools. Obivously this is just American propoganda! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

(yes I am kidding. just waiting for the stories where people start saying this)

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hehe, David, you must be one of the ones who believe the "moon walk" pictures were faked (too)... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

I don't know what to feel or think. I expect it will not be the end of the suicide bombs and such.

You mean the moon woalks wern't faked?

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I would predict more suicide bombing and attacks.

Actually, Gryph, there really isn't a moon. That's faked as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

I believe attacks and bombings in Iraq will lessen because one of the biggest motor for them is now gone. However, there are still various Groups of their own agenda so I believe this will not propably end them.

Anyhow, Hail to the Chief! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hehe, David, you must be one of the ones who believe the "moon walk" pictures were faked (too)... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What..? Michael Jackson faked that?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hehe, David, you must be one of the ones who believe the "moon walk" pictures were faked (too)... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What..? Michael Jackson faked that?? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LMAO http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Cheap at the price. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif My big question is, where do we try him, in Iraq (my preference) or back home? Or give him a few months in Club Gitmo to soften him up first?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Bigger SOB = UBL?

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Arkcon

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Good news. Now put him on trial. International court system. Lets get to the bottom of these WMD'S

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

He looks a lot like that mad scientist from the Black Hole. You know, the one who killed the crew and turned the survivors into machines then plunged the Cyngus into the black hole thus destroying her.

He had a gun, with bullets, and was taken alive, what a fricking coward. *shakes head*

Good job to our military guys and the Iraqs who helped nab this SOB.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What a shame http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You didn't think the Democrats had a chance anyway, did you?

Their current frontrunner is banking heavily on the Bush-hatin', which does great things for his chance at the democratic nomination. But he doesn't need to sway the loyal Democrats, which is what 99% of the Bush-haters are anyway. And he doesn't need to sway the youth. Despite what you may have heard in popular media, the 'youth vote' has never made a difference.

He needs to sway that oh-so-important undecided 20%, and he's not going to get them with a straw-man baddie. The only way the Democrats have a chance at the next election is if something unexpected and terrible happens in the next year. Something that make Bush look even worse than he does now, and that might take some serious doing.

The smart Democrats should be positioning themselves for 2008, which might be what Gore is doing. Personally, I'm hoping for the chance to vote for Liberman, which I almost certainly won't be getting in 2004. Unless of course Dean finds himself in a Gary Hart situation.

Of course, once Bush is unable to run again I might get the chance to vote McCain. Or maybe some other decent Republican, 'cause Cheney won't be running.

As for Saddam's trial, I'll allow that the World Court might have a better claim to him that the U.S. Government. But I'd like to hear good reasons for the World Court having more of a right to try him than the Iraqis.

Whoever it is, I hope he doesn't get death. I just don't think that will work out especially well.

*Loser looks forward, especially, to replies from Rex, Oleg, and The Primitive One.*

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Let's not equate capturing Saddam with winning the election! Let's not equate failing to capture Saddam with losing the election!

You see, if we do, it starts to imply that there are Americans that are sad Saddam got caught because it might mean their party might not win.

Any American who is sad (in any way) about Saddam getting caught needs to have a proirity check! Soon!

When the political party system gets in the way of unity as a nation against someone who has the undisputed history of murdering his own people, then partisan politics has gone tooooooo far!

I predict a hot period of suicide attacks in Iraq followed by peace at Last!

WOOHOO!

Merry Christmas!!

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

I wonder if they'll treat him as badly as their captives in camp X-Ray. And if they treat him better than them, I wonder whether anyone will ask why those 'suspected terrorists' are being treated so badly when this guy who is undeniably responsible for untold misery gets proper treatment.

But all the same, good to have the old bastard behind bars.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Dan Quale 2008 all the way! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The suspects in camp X-ray aren't being treated badly, beyond the simple fact that they are being held indefinately which I will allow is wrong by itself and needs rectified. Perhaps compared to a standard US prision they have it rough, but by international standards they are being treated quite well. There have been some restrictions on their free expression of their religious beliefs, but that would not be a punishment for Sadaam as his adherance to Islam has never been more then for his own polictical benefit anyway.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Congrats on catching him alive, well done.

You don't have me down as a Saddam lover, do you ? He is a SOB and a war criminal and deserves everyting he got coming.

However: I think catching him alive now is not a good sign for GWB. Dead it would have been a clean victory, alive he will only help bring the focus back to GWBs lying and cheating during the buildup to the war. I predict once the first celebrations are over, GWB will face renewed attention from the media regarding the missing WMDs and the big contracts awarded to his friends. Weather it's enough to throw the election or not; we can only hope (or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

BTW:
Feel free to throw this back in my face in 6 months time if I'm wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not at all. I can't think of anyone I know, RL or Online, I would put on that list.

It's your... how to put it... pronounced and well expressed disapproval of the recent course of actions taken but U.S. leadership that would bring something more to this thread. Not that I disapprove of pat-on-the-back content, but variety of opinion and contribution is what these threads great.

Also not that post so far have been strictly congratulatory or jingoistic (hates the word, so overused, like France-bashing, used to be cool but now everyone's doing it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ), but I figured you'd have something to contribute that might not otherwise be noted.

And although I disagree with your belief that this event will bring more focus on the ... perhaps lies, perhaps misunderstandings (never assume malice where ignorance or incompetence are fine explanations (though I lean more toward the 'lie' side every month) that were used to justify the matter in the first place, it is a real possibility that I had not yet considered.

[edit: thems some bad sentances. broke a few rules there, I think)

[ December 14, 2003, 15:51: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

It seems there are a number of Iraqis who want to try Saddam in Iraq. Some of the of pundits say Iraq, some say in international court, some say both. In any case, trying him in the U.S. would be a big mistake all around.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Well, one thing is for sure (I think):

The Bush administration is enjoying the lack of attention there has been on the push for proof of WMD. I still mention it to my wife (a devout Bush supporter), though. I still remember all the aerial photographs before the "action" started with arrows pointing to places that housed the WMD. And when they got there, nothing. And nothing since. And the chief inspector in the country, from Germany, saying they had never found anything.

I think the US wanted to flex its muscle (given certain events) and I don't disagree that Iraq was a country gone awry (sp?). But, even in the US, it's illegal for a guy to go beat up another guy even if he is sure this guy will do some bad some day.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not that the world is waiting on what I have to say, but I agree.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

My prediction is that the people of Iraq will get him. Several members of their provisional government have stated they want him. People are chanting for him in the streets, Tony Blair has stated that is what he would prefer. Several other Arab nations have stated that with the addition that the subsequent execution should be public. And the US is undecided on where he should be put on trial and only know that he should.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But is it illegal to go and remove from a position to do so someone who has exibited repeatedly in the past the desire, and ability to do some bad to all his neighbors. Just putting the analogy in a more proper context.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Well, to put the analagy in proper context, I offer this:

A guy can say in front of witnesses that he is going to kill his wife. She can even complain to the police. But they can't arrest him, even though he certainly has the ability to beat her to death. An action has to be done before arrests can be made.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

I would offer that he has already beaten several wives to death in the past.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Cheap at the price. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif My big question is, where do we try him, in Iraq (my preference) or back home? Or give him a few months in Club Gitmo to soften him up first?

Quote:

Originally posted by Thermodyne: One SOB down and one bigger SOB to go!

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Bigger SOB = UBL? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Could someone please explain to me why they think what GWB did was bad? I mean as I see it, he ended a system of government that was both corrupt and a threat to continued world security.

We all know that Saddam has sought after, and did have at one point, weapons of mass destruction.

If we would have left him alone, and not gone in when we did, what do you think would have eventually happened?

Do you think Saddam would have continued to seek after these types of weapons? Continue his reign of evil over the Iraqis people? Continued to support terrorist Groups and funding of terrorist activities?

If Saddam did get his hands on a WMD, do you think he would have used it himself, or either sell it or given it to a group that would have used it?

We all can agree that Saddam had, abused his powers as a leader of his country to both kill innocent people, and line his own pockets with gold. He did not want wealth per say, what he wanted was power.

We know that Saddam attempted to have GB senior killed. Could this have been motivation for GWB to go in?

What I know is that nearly everyone felt that Saddam had to go. He was an evil man, a man who sought after, and more than likely would have gotten, a weapon of mass destruction.

If Saddam had gotten his hands on a nuke, I have no doubts that he would have sold it or given it to a terrorist group who would have used it against either Israel or the another target.

I do not think that not finding weapons of mass destruction is a bad thing. I think it is a horrifying thing. If Saddam did have them, where are they now? If he did not have them, then did he destroy the ones he did have or did he just sell them off?

The end result is: Saddam is no longer in power, a source of funding and support for terrorism has been severely curtailed, and a source for weapons of mass destruction has been removed. The Iraqis people have their freedom, albeit a bit confused and chaotic at the moment, but they do have it. Saddam is now in custody and will stand trial for his crimes.

I think that GWB did what needed to be done in order to make a better place for us all to live. I think he saved a people from a tyrant ruler and his thugs. I do not believe that GWB lied to the world, I believe he honestly felt that what he was saying was true and accurate. Never the less, world opinion on this subject will always be that he lied. One thing to keep in mind though, these are the same people who protested the war in the first place, who wanted to keep Saddam in power. They wanted Saddam’s rule to continue, and the suffering of the Iraqis people to continue unabated.

These are also the same people who stood by and let millions die in the Yugoslavian civil wars. I have to be honest with you all, I really sincerely question the reasoning of these kind of people.

But they have their reasons, their information, and way of life. I have mine, and I am not above saying that I don’t know all the facts, and that truth is something that a Government seldom tells its people regardless of Government it is.

We should never stand idle when human rights are being violated, and people are being appressed. There is no such thing as an acceptable tolerance to human suffering. Going into Iraq and taking out Saddam was something that should have been dealt with back in 91. But politics being politics, and the worlds opinion mattering, he was left alone, as were the Taliban. Look where that philosophy has taken us all.

In my humble opinion, we as a whole, all of us, not just the USA, but all nations, should stand together and say enough is enough. No excuses, no more terrorism or violation of human rights. If you support terrorism, or violate the sanctity of humanity, then you will be dealt with.

If not for the USA, France, Great Britain, and god know how many other countries would have been forced to endure the horror that was brought to them by Adolf Hitler. I really see no difference here. Saddam, if left alone, would have continued his quest for a nuclear weapon and eventfully would have obtained one. And then the world would have changed.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The anaolgy is NOT correct. To use your terms and have the analogy correct you would say Sadaam was convicted of beating his wife, not simply suspected or threatening to do so. He was put on probation and the terms of his probation were that he attend regular counseling (weapons inspections) to make sure he does not go back to beating her. Whether or not he is actually beating her (has weapons of mass destruction) is important to know, but the simple fact that he is skipping the counseling (interfered with the inspectors) is a violation of the terms of his probation and enough to get his butt put in jail.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'm talking about international crimes and analagies. If the US were appointed the international police and were allowed to invade countries based on the civil crimes done by their leaders, we'd have to be just about everywhere.

My analagy was: Just as one doesn't have the right to beat up on a guy because he might (or even probably) will do something bad in the future, the US can't go beating up on countries just because they might do something bad in the future. There has to have been an offense already committed.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Apparantly after some questioning about what he did he was belligerent and viewed himself as a kind but stern leader and called those he killed nothing but thieves.

If such reports are accurate it seems that there will be little difficulty in proving he is in fact Saddam.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Congrats on catching him alive, well done.

You don't have me down as a Saddam lover, do you ? He is a SOB and a war criminal and deserves everyting he got coming.

However: I think catching him alive now is not a good sign for GWB. Dead it would have been a clean victory, alive he will only help bring the focus back to GWBs lying and cheating during the buildup to the war. I predict once the first celebrations are over, GWB will face renewed attention from the media regarding the missing WMDs and the big contracts awarded to his friends. Weather it's enough to throw the election or not; we can only hope (or not http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

BTW:
Feel free to throw this back in my face in 6 months time if I'm wrong http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Dow is back over 10K; this will have more influence on the elections than catching Saddom. If the economy continues to improve and the recent trend of tech jobs returning to the states continues, then he will have a good chance of being reelected. If the problems in Iraq decrease, and the economy continues to improve, congress will turn to health care and reexamining free trade. A few changes on those fronts and he is again a tuff candidate to beat.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

What Saddom has to say during his interrogation could disrupt the governments of several countries. If he is the man (coward) that I think he is, he will tell all. I doubt that France, Germany and Russia are looking forward to these revelations. They backed a despot and now they will probably suffer some tarnished reputations because of it. Germany and Russia will lay most of it at the feet of previous administrations, but it could cause a change of leadership in France.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Thermodyne is about right. People tend to vote with their wallets. What sort of factor Iraq is in next year's U.S. election depends largely on the length and size of the occupation.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">- Wasting the total and blind sympathy to USA after 09/11 toward worldwide antipathy today.
- Lying about the goals of the second Iraqi war.

In my book, that is enought to write him as an idiot. However, millions of humans who suffered under Saddam will praise this event and be right to do so.
So despite our political differences, let's just rejoice of the arrest of that human beast.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
No more that Rumsfield.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LMAO. He does look like Dr. Hanz Reinhart! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">When Bush Lied people died.

[ December 14, 2003, 17:59: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How quaint. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Perhaps you could rack up what you believe are the deaths caused by Bush? (caveat, Gulf War II does NOT count as it was merely the wrap-up of Gulf War I, his father's war, and had to be fought under any circumstances)

Then compare that total to the millions of dead that are undisputably culpable to Sodamn Insane (Iraqis, Kurds, Iranians, Gulf War soldiers of all countries).

Game, set, and match for the Butcher of Baghdad.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

All I can say it's funny how some people - all of sudden - seem to care about the poor Iraqis.

Where were all these same people during Rwanda, Haiti and Kosovo. They were busy criticizing Clinton for nation building.

As far as I know the war was about WMD. And not about gving my tax dollars to Cheney's chronies at Haliburton.

[ December 14, 2003, 18:34: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'm happy he is caught. Once US started the war it is imperative to finish it as soon as possible and as few casualties as feasiable.

My critisism was always to the war itself that was illegal, unjustified and directly against US and Europe interests. Saddam had no WMD whatsoever and in fact was a bastion against islamic fanatics. I have no idea what will heapen in Iraq and really hope it will emerge as a secular and democratic country. However, it seems more likely to become a violent antiamerican theocracy.

[ December 14, 2003, 18:51: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Legality is not an issue related to declaring war... there is no such thing as a "legal war" or an "illegal war". There is right and wrong, but not legality.

[ December 14, 2003, 18:56: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Those that only care about partisan politics (such as you), sure. But, there are plenty of people that support the Iraq war for caring about Iraqis that also supported those other wars for caring about the people of those nations.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You must be speaking about the French, Germans, Russians, and those people here in the US that apposed the war.

I have always said, and I recall many others as well saying that this was good for the Iraqi people even before we went to war. So you must be talking about those who opposed the war. Like I said, these people enjoy human suffering, and their motivations are in question as far as I am concerned.

Rex you remind me an awful lot of a guy who called himself Silverlock on another forum. The resemblance of your statements and opinions are uncanny.

[ December 14, 2003, 19:08: Message edited by: CNCRaymond ]

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

I was referring to the President himself. In the debates he specifically brought this point up and he criticized Clinton for exactly the same thing he is doing now. Now if others feel attacked by this well I am sorry if pointing this out offends.

Fyron please don't accuse me of Partisan politics. I have never read a single line written by you that strays from mainline Republican policies.

[ December 14, 2003, 19:07: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The President, that is GWB, was referring to the LACK of commitment by then President Clinton. Clinton tied the hands of the military and was not committed to the effort for which he had committed troops.

If you do not believe me, just ask any military or peace keeping officer who was there. They utterly hated Bill Clinton’s politics.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">- Wasting the total and blind sympathy to USA after 09/11 toward worldwide antipathy today.
- Lying about the goals of the second Iraqi war.

In my book, that is enought to write him as an idiot. However, millions of humans who suffered under Saddam will praise this event and be right to do so.
So despite our political differences, let's just rejoice of the arrest of that human beast. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thank you. I do not believe that he is an idiot, but given the way things have turned out, I do believe he knew more than he let on. But again, I think this is a case where the ends did justify the means. One less evil dictator to deal with.

It will be interesting to read the offical CIA reports in 50 years. Man what I would give to be a historian in the latter part of this century.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

Okay first off Clinton attacked Iraq for no reason with no goals and he had a tendency of starting a war anytime someone found out yet another woman gave him yet another blowjob so that is why he is so easily criticized.

And for the fact that Clinton would stay just long enough and be just dumb enough for the American people to get pissed off and for just enough US troops to die needlesly before he pulled out for no reason such as he did in Bosnia.

Bush went into Afghanistan with a purpose and we won easily, he went into Iraq with a purpose and we defeated the regime and are helping to create a new free nation. Clinton just blew crap up and left the second his sex scandals passed.

I am a Bush supporter yes but I have myself disagreed with SOME of the stuff he's done but not all.

Now as to that other statement about where were the people who cared...easy. The United States was practically threatened by Russia if we went into Iraq on our own, we were also threatened by boycots from the nations like Germany, France, and Switzerland and the rest of the UN were being arrogant airheads that said effectively "as long as they don't bother us let's not bother them" the US couldn't do anything without allies, now that Britain helped us as well thats good but notice that the UN and other allies which said they'd help are putsing about and stalling in the actual deployment of troops or economic aid for Iraq?

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">1) How many UN resolutions was Hussein in violation of? 17? 19? So what's the threshold for legitimacy? 21?

2) He attempted the assassination of an ex-president back in '95. Is that not a sufficient justification?

3) How is it in the interests of the US (or even Europe if they thought straight) to have an expansionistic madman next door to the world's largest oil reserves? The fact that those reserves are in the hands of fanatical Muslims is bad enough as is.

4) Hussein was directed to give over all materials and records of his WMD programs. He refused. Just who is dumb enough to think that he should have been given the benefit of the doubt?

5) RE: WMD's - I'm still waiting to see if any stockpiles show up in Syria or elsewhere. And just some food for thought... what if any number of WMD depot locations were known before the war - given Hussein's record, might they not be legitimate bombing targets? Hard to gather evidence from a smoldering crater, and "Better safe than sorry..."

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Both he and those fanatics were/are US enemies, and I'm not yet convinced that they were not in some sort of collusion.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Simple - occuply it until the threat of theocracy passes. We had troops in Germany and Japan for many years for similar reasons. Here I will criticize Bush - we should NOT leave by June. Stay until the job is done.

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The President, that is GWB, was referring to the LACK of commitment by then President Clinton. Clinton tied the hands of the military and was not committed to the effort for which he had committed troops.

If you do not believe me, just ask any military or peace keeping officer who was there. They utterly hated Bill Clinton’s politics. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I can look up the transcripts of the debate . . . and we can parse words. All I know is that GWB meant that the US should not get involved in any nation building.

What lack of commitment are you talking about - can you be more specific. Kosovo and Haiti were the only adventures that Clinton got us into and they were relative successes.

[ December 14, 2003, 19:56: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: OT: Saddam Hussein Arrested
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is exactly where I - and I think many other people - disagree. Remember your own words:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is a very hypocrite statement if you support actions violating human rights and oppressing people in cases where you think they are "justified". And it is a common ideology I encounter, the alleged motivation by morals, but the fact they rarely care for any other of the numerous dictatorships in the world and put their moral standards aside when it comes to their own actions.

Yes, I am glad that this dictatorship is over. But it had been possible to do it with other means. But that would have meant less profit for Haliburton etc.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Generalizing this way is like I would say that every war supporter is a greedy war profiteer with something like a good job at Haliburton. And this "these people enjoy human suffering" is outrageous and personally offending me.

I utterly despise people who think they are the utmost in moral authority and therefore take it as their god-given right to treat everyone having a different opinion like a piece of ****.