Combined Arms: Thought
 

A post elsewhere inspired a thought. Missiles, fighters, drones are considered to be nearly useless (in general, dont jump on me with examples), but how about using all three?

Think about it. Battleships, medium transports and medium carriers. Battleships loaded with missiles and ripper beams, carriers loaded with fighters and transports with drones. a few SY ships to back it up.

Result? I think it'll be a strain on the other side. If he/she devotes too much to PDC the ships will be ripped by, well, ripper beams (the ships would go up-close, no choice but to have something to fight back), and if heavy PDC isnt used drones fighters and missiles would simply overwhelm the enemy.

Possible?

[ December 17, 2003, 00:11: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

In a high tech game, maybe. But the problem is research cost. By the time you can deploy all those, your opponent that single-focused can probably deploy much more potent conventional weaponry.

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

Well another problem is that I deploy PDC ships along with my ships of the line.
My ships of the line are not armed with PDCs at all and devote all their space to heavy weaponry while my PDC ships provide that nasty anti fighter/drone/missile punch.

Of course I only have the demo so I know that some of the technical issues may be different but in my exerpience a light cruiser with like 12+ PDC cannons add 6 or more of these in a large fleet and add the defensive structure of heavy shields+ if you have combat sensors you can likely kill drones and your combined arms fleet would be chewed up because once my warships closed with your missile ships and brought their full gun arsenal to bare your warships would be destroyed. Then I'd move on to the carriers and transports which would be effectively defensless against my ships.

Sure I'd likely lose a few ships to such a large number of drones missiles and fighters but if I also have my own fighter support PLUS the firepower of my PDC ships then most of your fighters wouldn't make it into killing range, your drones would be the largest threat and since they can be brought down by normal guns it would be likely that with overwhelming guns I could neutralize enough of them to prevent a signifigant loss of ships. Oh and if your drones are still far enough out when my PDCs reload then their firepower+ those of fighters and big guns would probobly make your fleet so weak that it wouldn't have really been worth deploying.

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That works in tactical combat only. Try this in simult. turns game. Your ships will fly randomly in different directions, very often you will find PDC ships on one flank chasing some frigate while Heavy Beam ships get slautered by missiles just few sectors away. I tried this dort of fleet compositions and give up in frustration. Now ALL my ships have 2-3 PDC or even more.

Of course you can select "stay in formation". That will keep PDC ships close by. But then you will get whole new set of idiotic and suicidal fleet maneuvers ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

Well normally I don't play multiplayer games of ANY of the games I have.

But with SEIV I may so in Strategic combat I'll probobly do what you sugjest.

But I'll more likely play the games types that allow tactical combat.

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Tactical is too unfair on AIs. You can always win with far poor ships. Besides, strategic gives an extra level of roleplaying. Optimal ship design, fleet composition and fine tuning of strategies is a more dignified occupation for the supreme ruler of Universe than jumping from ship to ship anf fire every gun manually http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

You can only play tactical combat in hotseat mode. All other forms of multiplayer play are strategic combat only. How do you resolve tactical combat in a PBEM game anyways? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif TCP/IP is just automated PBEM play.

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Tactical is too unfair on AIs. You can always win with far poor ships. Besides, strategic gives an extra level of roleplaying. Optimal ship design, fleet composition and fine tuning of strategies is a more dignified occupation for the supreme ruler of Universe than jumping from ship to ship anf fire every gun manually http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I find it more fun to roleplay while watching my fleet and the enemy fleet clashing with all their guns blazing.

I have lost quite a few tactical combats even while outnumbering the enemy so I don't consider it unfair at all. Especially if I get one of the mods that makes the AI smarter because then they'd be on an even footing.

In fact I have more fun losing a tactical combat then winning a strategic combat because I can watch WHY and because it's just so much more fun to me.

Of course I know that in multiplayer games I'd have to use strategic but when I am playing by myself or in hotseat mode I love to watch the battles play out and like to fire the guns manually. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

Ah, yes. Life in the trenches. That's where its all at. Putting your own ship at risk in order to shield another from harm. Making the valiant charge towards the enemy in order to give the crippled flagship time to retreat.
Using every drop of tactical skill to hold off the overwhelming enemy force for just one more turn while your planets prepare defenses.
Firing blindly while watching in slow motion as your friends take hits from those accursed alien invaders, just like in a war movie.

Now that's fun!

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

oleg got the point
the ripper battleships are there for a reason http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

EDIT: yes, its a pain to research. but think about it - get your DUC, get fighters 1, drones 1, missiles 3. your enemy would have some good weaponry now, but let him try and face it ALL - swarms are nasty.

p.s realize PDC ships are 'weakest'. strategy targeting, hint hint http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ December 18, 2003, 22:18: Message edited by: Taera ]

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

Ok, if we are talking tactical and human vs. human, then Taera' fleet will annihilate Starhawk http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You see, in contrast to dumb AI, human will select targets intelligently. He will charge PDC ships first and destroy them at any cost. Combined arms fleet has direct fire ships and PDC ships will not escape punishment. And you can't keep ships back - you need to defend against the missile hoards. All he need is to kill or simply cripple few ships. Does not matter if he lose many more of his own. The rest of the battle will be slaughter of helpless http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ December 18, 2003, 15:28: Message edited by: oleg ]

Re: Combined Arms: Thought
 

You're right Taera, it can work, and I've seen it work, even in the unmodded game, though it tends to be more work and harder to pull off than a direct-fire strategy. If you are one even ground with an enemy on direct-fire terms, though, combined arms seeker/drone/fighter combos can provide a surprise to tip the scales. Especially since drones and fighters can be hidden inside ships, giving an unexpected concentration of force.

PvK