Ambiguous test:
 

I think it was in my freshman year my psychology professor did a little survey. I was surprised by the results and now I am curious as to how it will turn out here. It is two simple questions that should (if he is right, and he was) correlate to one another. One is about your origin; the other is in response to an ambiguous statement.

Edited in: It is important not to view the results until after voting so I turned that feature on. I decided not to set a time limit as I know many of use are busy and it can take time to get around to voting. Max participation would be nice also, thanks in advance for voting.

Both questions are ambiguous, just use your personal definition to answer each, there is no “right” or “wrong” answer.

[ January 13, 2004, 21:00: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

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2 & 1

Did I pass?

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I assume that you want "suburbs" to count as "city," even though they are not really "in the city"...

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I grew up in a small town (farming community), so answered as "country". Hope that's correct...Greybeard

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Where is Small-town on the list? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif and for that matter My first reaction to #2 was option c. which was also missing from the questionaire. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

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You know, having lived in both types of settings
(I grew up in Detroit suburbs), I can undestand the results of this poll, and actually had a pretty good idea of how it would turn out before I answered it. But, I will withhold this thought until a few more people get a chance to answer the poll.

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Looks like my pick if 1-2 was canceled by someone picking 2-1. Oh, that was AT. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif But it must have happened a second time with a different pair, because there was most certainly not a 1:1 correlation between the questions when I had answered it... and AT answered before I did. What would be a lot more useful would be a set of results that list what you chose for both answers at the same time. Perhaps a poll with the same questions, but your answer has to be "city/got shot," "city/missed," "country/got shot," or "country/missed." This way, you get accurate information, instead of all these people that did not choose based on the "average relation." As it is now, the results are fairly suspect and do not actually show anything valid. It is possible that 10 people out of the 19 that answered so far did not pick "city/got shot" or "country/missed," which was the intended correlation. It could be that there are 5 "city/missed," 5 "country/got shot" and then 9 "city/got shot" selections. There is no way to know with the current poll.

[ January 13, 2004, 17:52: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

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no, technically not. but i have known enough human beings to tell you what the results are going to be. the only thing we are missing seeing is the small differences that reflect this particular group of voters.

re-arranging the questions the way you suggest will affect the way people thing about the poll. they will see both questions at once, instead of one after the other, and will then be more inclined to answer in a way that represents how they would like to think about it, rather than how they actually think. there could still be some of that happening, but people are less likely to go back and change their answer, once having read and considered the questions.

its just a flaw in the polling system.

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I picked 1) City and 1) got shot.

But my initial reaction to question 2 was that someone 'other' than the hunter got shot. not that he shot himself.

I guess that means I'm strange. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Cheers!

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<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not at all. Exactly my reaction, and then I chose 1) as being slightly closer to what I thought. But still, the "correct" answer for me is missing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

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Grammar quibble: you have hunters' (plural possessive) rather than hunter's (single possessive) making it appear that more than one hunter was involved.

It is an odd quiz. I have a hard time seeing how anyone could choose the "missed" answer, regardless of their upbringing. Missing a shot just ain't *tragic* unless it was the very Last of his ammo and he needed the meat to avoid starvation (although some folks I know who hunt might consider it tragic if they missed a buck with a nice rack, who then ran off before they could get a second shot...), but those conditions would be stretching the question quite a lot. Absent those conditions, just keep hunting and try again. For me, that left the other option as the only one that made any sense.

SpaceBadger

PS: I think I'm another one throwing off your correlation; definitely raised in the country, but see above re answer to second question.

[ January 13, 2004, 19:39: Message edited by: SpaceBadger ]

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same here. my first reaction was 'shot someone' not 'got shot'.

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Thanks for the tip on the grammar; I am not sure how it [‘] worked its way over in the sentence. Their can not be a “right” or “wrong” answer, you have all brought up good points, but I wanted to test the correlation in a larger environment, as opposed to a classroom of students that shared a common history and culture. Sorry Fyron, but if they where grouped than that would invalidate the test as now you would have to pick a pair as opposed to choosing one, then choosing another. The very nature of human behavior should allow for some variance. Also remember that correlation does not equal causation. I don’t want to go into much detail or I may start tampering with the results of those who read the Posts before the test.

The professor in question did mention that “city” and “country” are also meant to be somewhat ambiguous, so if you consider suburbs city fine, if not still fine. I forgot to mention that in the test, I will edit it in now. There can be no right or wrong answer, just your honest opinion.

So far I am not surprised with the results, even factoring in free will (can that ever be factored) they fall right into lines with his prediction.

[ January 13, 2004, 21:04: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

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The problem is that his prediction is irrelevant given the posing of the questions, because the data is fundamentally flawed. Unless, of course, his prediction was simply that more people would come from "cities" and more people would choose "got shot." Any inference on the correlation between the answers to the two questions is based on a faulty foundation and is suspect.

[ January 13, 2004, 21:19: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Ambiguous test:
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Right, The Hunter question can not be correctly answered by first answer. It does not gramatically fit or make sense, it is ambiguous.
The only unambiguous answer is the second one.

On the other hand, what if your emailing with a Japanese person writing English, or someone else who thinks in a different language? In such a situation you must interpert meanings from imperfect sentances and the ambiguity will have less importance. This would make answer one correct, pending verification.

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<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, I see your point that making the subject choose a pair might produce different results than choosing two answers independently, however I also agree with Fyron that any method that does not match up the answers into pairs is meaningless except as to proportion of subjects who consider themselves to be from the country or the city, and proportion of subjects who answer the second question one way or the other. I think it is a problem with the way the UBB polls work, that it won't let you tabulate any correlation such as a percentage that chose 1A & 2A, percentage that chose 1A & 2B, etc.

I suspect that when your professor did this he recorded the data in a manner that allowed such a correlation, else what would be the point?

SpaceBadger

edit: to clarify: The questions should be asked individually rather than in pairs, but the answers need to be correlated after the answering to gain any meaningful results. I don't think the UBB poll allows you to do this.

[ January 13, 2004, 22:54: Message edited by: SpaceBadger ]

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I picked 'Country' 'Hunter got shot' even though the question would have been better if someone else got shot.
Even though most guns are illegal in Australia I grew up with guns on most of the farms near me to take care of any foxes or rabbits but I've never heard anyone call a missed shot 'tragic'. Perhaps if you had a bear or lion charging you, but then again I'm sure there would be more approiate words. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

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<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">well said.

But still an interesting concept non the less.

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I think that concludes this test.

Dr Stevens predicted that as many people would say the “hunter was wounded” as claimed to come from cities and vice versa, and nothing else. Poll results: 28 from city, 26 hunter got shot. The converse is also true: 12 from country, 14 the hunter couldn’t hit a target, any target.

The grammar error on my behalf was a problem that may have skewed the poll results, but since Dr Stevens was not attempting to predict anything (and I was just testing his prediction) about human nature I would have to say that the results support his prediction as it did that day in class. Fyron without even knowing what could have been the prediction or the intention of this poll you proceeded to shoot it to shreds and reveal enough information that I feel it must be concluded early. Thanks a lot, I mean that, in the future before you criticize something that you couldn’t have understood (only I had the knowledge of MY intentions for making the poll), ask what is the purpose.

Lock the thread.

[ January 13, 2004, 23:44: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

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That would be the alternative purpose I had stated. Hmm... interesting that I understood all angles and presented both of the relevant ones. True, most of my Posts focused on one angle, but that was the angle that had problems with it.

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yes, you're so clever. please congratulate yourself some more.

[puke ducks out before the thread is closed, hopeing Fyron isnt armed, or at least that his shooting is tragic]

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*Fyron tragically misses several shots fired from his rifle at the gelatinous Puke as he shambles out the door.* Unfortunately, the shots hit some city people. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

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Hunters shooting is usually tragic. (I'm on the animals' side... those poor deer, murdered by those evil hunters! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) If the hunter missed the target, that would be a GOOD thing. On the other hand, if the hunter shot himself, well... it's debatable whether that's tragic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

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deer? GRASS MURDERERS!

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I forgot that you have the ability to read my mind, and in your all powerful mind is stored the knowledge of everything anyone can ever consider from every point that could ever be posed. Pat yourself on the back some more, really you are one in a million. I feel truly fortunate to have you nearby. But next time that you want to demonstrate your superiority for me try to tone it down some, you might bruise your back in the process. Are you smart enough to read between the lines on this one baby? What? Narf, where is the popcorn, I will take some this time.

[ January 14, 2004, 01:21: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

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Either you missed the sarcastic tone of that post or you are just carrying it out further. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

*pops his own popcorn*

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<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">*hands Shang some popcorn*

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<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yup, that's why I never mow the lawn.

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alright guys, lets not turn this into the goods and evils of hunting. most hunters are very responsible and ecologically minded folks. hunting license and game tags are metered out by state and federal wild life agencies to controll populations. sure, some of the agencies *** up, and some of the hunters are pricks, but by and large its a responsible community.

and yes, i fully realize that the only reason animal populations need to be kept down, is because we encroach on their space. its a ***** being at the top of the food chain. if you burn down your house, i'll follow suit and do the same. go ahead, tell your wife I said it was okay, and mention that its for the deer and field mice.

if you really want to save animals, get a hunting license and purchase game tags, and then dont shoot anything. buying the tags will help fund your state wild life and open space agencies, and it will also stop someone else from buying the tags, whom might want to actually shoot something.

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Okay. This looks like the place to put my comment, which is this:

If a person living in a rural setting (farm, forest, isolated village, etc) hears a shot fired, the assumption generally is that a deer, rabbit, or something of the kind is the target. On the other hand, a person living in an urban setting (such as Detroit) is more likely to assume that the target is another person. Flaws aside, I think that may be the reason for the results.

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Indeed that IS the reason for the result - and there are very good reasons for those people to assume such things. If they assumed anything else, they would probably be off their nut!

guns are used for entirely different applications in rural and urban areas, and anyone living in those areas knows exactly what those are.