OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Just wondering if anyone else reads the "Made in ..." labels before they buy stuff. Personally I always try to buy the made in Canada stuff. Of course usually the only place I can do this is the gorcery store.

Do any of you Canadians know were the frozen fish you buy comes from? Read the label. Product of China! Half the east coast fisheries closed down and we are buying fish from China?? I can almost understand why every single pLastic item is made in China but fish??

Also maybe someone can explain this. In Canada I'd estimate that 95% or more of all toys available are made in China!! How did they manage this? I can understand why they use cheap 3rd world labour but why no other countries.

[ January 14, 2004, 02:29: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

There is a lot of cheap stuff made in Taiwan, Korea and Japan sold in the US (at least around southern California). Not as much comes from China that I have noticed though. Although, I could really care less where stuff was made (as long as it works well, and is not shoddy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ).

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

To some degree I try and support Canadian-made products when possible.

I'm a bit more proactive when it comes to choosing stores to shop at. For example, I try and avoid Wal-Mart as much as possible because I do not care for the way they handle their employees and their supplier practices. I believe they drive down wages and have contributed to significant loss of revenue to suppliers that are necessary for growth etc.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

The quality and price is more important to me than where it is manufactured.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Like Fyron said, as long as it works and is not shoddy, I don't worry about it, I would think twice if was French made, but I don't drink wine and thats all I can think of that they sell that I would buy (yes, my reason is political, but thats just me).

As far as everything from China *sigh*, thats the way it seems, I notice alot of JOBs going to India, nothing against India or any other country, but I wonder how long companis will do that till they smarten up and pull those jobs back here?

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

The companies are being smart as it is by moving their employment to foreign nations where they can pay employees less money (far less in some cases). They don't care about helping Americans or anything silly like that, they just want to make profit. Lower operating costs (paying employees, for example) lead to greater profit.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

true for the short run, but some jobs are customer service where we Americans will get to the point of not putting up with talking to people they can not understand or has such a low knowledge of what they are talking about, people will go elsewhere.

A subsidary of BristolMyer made orthopedic implants, they move machinery to Costa Rica for the lower cost for workers, BUT they did not have the ability to run the computer controlled machines so it was a year or so later that all the machines came back.

Bean counters only see the bottom line yet seem not to see things that tie into the business over all, so they make a change that in the end costs more.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

If you wish to stereotype businessmen, then sure. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Your fisheries might have closed down because they were exhausted (too few fish), not because there was a lack of demand, DavidG.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course you are talking about high tech companies selling specialized equipment to other professionals. It probably doesn't apply so much to the Chinese Co making pLastic dog crap

I wonder if people even think about where something is made when they find it is crap. ie I've had 2 fairly new HP printers crap out on me lately. I never really thought about were they were made till now. I just looked on the bottom. - made in China. Hmm my busted scanner is made in China too. Of course all that means is there are pLastic parts in it. Around here if it's got any pLastic in it chances are it's made in China

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Where do you think the Chinese are getting fish from? Can't our boats go there?

[ January 14, 2004, 02:51: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

[quote]Originally posted by DavidG:

Quote:

Where do you think the Chinese are getting fish from? Can't our boats go there?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If they're inside Chinese territorial waters, no. Notice you also said east coast fisheries- having to go down to Panama THEN cross to where the Chinease fishermen are fishing isn't going to be profitable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">After spending a year in Korea, and seeing a Goldstar repair truck coming to the base every week, I don't buy any Korean electronic products. And that's been almost 16 years now. If it weren't for the fact that if I didn't buy anything made in China, my kid would have no toys at all, then I wouldn't buy stuff made in China. I don't know about the rest of the world, but it seems that America is spending a huge amount of cash to put into China's coffers, and I doubt very much that it goes to the people. We may be financing China's military, and that will come back to bite us eventually. So that's why I'm leary of anything that says "Made in China". Unfortunatley, there aren't too many alternatives if you don't want to spend a lot of money.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

After spending a year in Korea, and seeing a Goldstar repair truck coming to the base every week, I don't buy any Korean electronic products.

They have improved with time you know.

I don't know about the rest of the world, but it seems that America is spending a huge amount of cash to put into China's coffers, and I doubt very much that it goes to the people. We may be financing China's military, and that will come back to bite us eventually. So that's why I'm leary of anything that says "Made in China". Unfortunatley, there aren't too many alternatives if you don't want to spend a lot of money.

You ARE financing china's military. No doubt about it; the communist party's having a field day with all this newfound money. I think they bought a couple of new subs with the capital too.

[ January 14, 2004, 04:11: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

I buy "Australian owned" and "Made in Australia" when I can, but only if the product is of a quality and price equal to or better then the alternative.

The thing that ticks me off, is we supply raw metal to Asia, then they turn it in car parts and ship them back and the cars are assembeled here and they give the impression that the Cars are "Made in Australia".

Mind you, being a stock holder in some Australian companies, as long as they give me a good return on my money, I don't care how the company is run.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

I make a point of not buying anything made in China or a third world country unless I don't have a choice.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

I try to buy as much local as possible, mostly food from the local region, vegetables and meat and such, hard to buy local bananas and oranges in Sweden though!

If clothes and stuff are made in Sweden, the scandinavia, balticum , europe or africa I try to choose those first, in that order, mainly as to minimize transports but also other reasons.

I have nothing against goods made in USA/Canada/China/India or wherever.

Somehow I tend to mentally kind of prefer the nordic culture, diverse as it is (Scandinavia, parts of Russia and Canada), this sometimes influences me when I buy stuff, but not often.

(Edit: Rextorres > I try to buy stuff from third world countries if I have the choice http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ,and if am feeling more political than enviromental that day!. )

And when it comes to wine I prefer german wine, becouse of the taste, but I buy good french wine too.

[ January 14, 2004, 05:14: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope not French Canada hehe, J/K everyone, well if I had to vote which part of Canada could be part of the US, I would take the western half, sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think from political stand point China is a lot more noxious than France.

I understand why some people don't like France - but China was right behind it on the Iraq issue -France just took the lead.

France doesn't let it's corporations run defacto work camps and dump untreated toxic waste into the environment. Not to mention that China is an authoritarian regime.

Anyway all those jobs lost are never coming back until American workers are willing to live in the same conditions that workers of third world countries live OR we force any corporation that sells in the U.S. to provide their workers with the same wages and follow the same environmental laws that we expect them to have here.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They can come back the day when third world countries have the same standard as the I-world nations..
Last year 30% of the worlds population took the step up from poverty, 17.7 billions now have the same living standard as the "west".

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

raising the standard of living world-wide and introducing democracy will benifit the world.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">17.7 billion doesn't sound right because that's more than the population of the whole world.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So apparently you agree with the Bush Jr. adminstration's current reasons for the Iraq war. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

reason's? sort of. methods? not really. results? debatable.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

quality and craftsmanship. while politics amuse me, and i certainly have my share of views on them, i dont let them effect my day-to-day life. which is probably why my world view disgusts so many people.

but back to quality and craftsmanship, there are some regional and national determinations for that. Asia tends to have crap for metal. Some good craftsmen and companies to buy tools from, but you better do your research and make sure that their metal is imported.

A handfull of European countries produce fine clothing. Lots of places produce quality and durable casual-wear, but i sure as heck wouldn't buy suits from "lots of places."

All told, im a big supporter of the global economy. it has its down sides, but I like it both as an idea, and in practice (realizing full well its a very different animal in theory and in practice [assuming that you take theory to equal propoganda, it could be argued that theory and practice are actually identical])

what i REALLY hate, are people who use nested parenthetical statements in forum Posts. jackasses.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

I tend to boycott companies rather than countries- for example, I won't shop at Asda (Walmart-owned) or buy Nestle products or get petrol from Shell. I don't touch Mcdonald's any more, and if I did smoke I'd have real trouble finding someone I was prepared to buy tobacco from. It's kind of haphazard since I don't go and inform myself on every single supplier's ethical history, so I'm probably taking money away from one bastard corporation and just feeding it into another, but it gives me that lovely smug feeling and where possible I do aim for companies that go out of their way to be good.

I always buy free range and biodegradable, and I do like to go for locally produced stuff (especially food) for environmental reasons, but then at the same time I'm also kind of rebelling against the blind stupidity of "Buy British Beef", so I'll sometimes buy foriegn meat just to be awkward. People here seem to think that British meat must be BSE free because... well... because it has our flag stamped on the packet. Morons. The BSE outbreak here was handled extremely badly, and seemed to rely on rallying patriotism rather than, say, getting rid of the disease. I hope you yanks deal with it better than we did. We're now looking at yet another food scare with salmon and- guess what- it all stems from the fact that these animals are being fed ground-up offal from members of their own species. When we we learn that forcing cannibalism on these creatures might cut costs but in the long run it isn't doing anyone any favours?

I'd like to boycott US products until GWB is out of office because of the Iraq war, but if I did that I'd have to boycott UK products until Blair was out of office as well, but since I live in the UK that would be difficult. That said I never buy american beer but that's only because it's crap.

[ January 14, 2004, 07:38: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

carefull about sweeping generalizations there. There are some very good beers brewed here, though probably not the sort that are likely to be sold on your side of the pond.

Try looking for imported micro-brews, or check out some brew pubs the next time you go traveling.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Not to mention rumors I've heard of the Chinese using political/criminal prisoners as slave labor in their factories. I'm getting to be really wary (not to mention weary) of all the things I see labeled "Made in China" in the stores. But there's so damn much of the stuff it's getting difficult to avoid.

Sadly Ironic Case in Point - I got a mug from a friend of mine as a gift. Typical post-9/11 stuff - American flag on the background, large script lettering "God Bless America". The label on the bottom? "Made in China". http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

china is clearly the next big threat. 'when china wakes up, the world will tremble' - Napoleon.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just a little comment General W.
The work system of many American penal facilities is also labelled as Slave labour by many human rights organisations.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

I feel quite strongly on this, and I admit, take a similar stance to Dogscoff.

I boycott companies. I do not shop at several supermarkets which are either owned by companies which have policies I disagree with, or are particularily notorious for giving farmers a poor deal. I do not buy Proctor & Gamble products (they test non-medecines on animals) or Nike/Adidias products (slave labour in Eastern bloc/Asian countries), I do not eat at McDonalds, I do not buy petrol from Shell or Texaco, the list goes on. I boycott a company once I become aware (and I do read the FT and Times every day) that it has unethical policies.

I am a bit of a hypocrite here though because I smoke (although I currently trying to give up)

That being said, I tend to gravitate toward products from countries which I feel are well made. For example, my cars are diesel (low sulphur of course) but are both German (except for my old land rover). My household appliances, from the iron to the fridge, are all German (Bosch and Neff). I buy these due to reliability, and that post-WWII, the german companies have done more than most to introduce to decent practices in their factories, following on from the slave labour accusations justifiably made from WWII.

In relation to food, I buy local products. I always buy organic meat (not just free range, but organic). I buy organic vegetables, I buy organic wheat, and make my own bread (only way to get my nails really clean). I recycle pLastic bottles, tin cans, glass and has the famous compost heap which devours all vegetable waste from the kitchen. I dont buy food products grown in countries I have an ethical problem with.

Buying organic may not avoid all the BSE problems we have had in UK, but it does obviate part of the risk as the organic certification I buy require the herds to have been BSE free at all times.

BUT organic meat tastes better to me. It certainly has a better texture. I am slightly hypocritical here to cos I do go shooting pheasants. But I do always take away and eat what I shoot

I also bank with an ethical bank here in the UK, and my pension funds are invested in what I consider to be ethical investments. I do not invest in arms, tobacco or anything like that. Took bloody ages to sort out, but I feel better for doing that!

I do boycott US products, but primarily as I think the food produce is inferior (american cheese? YUKKK) and the beer has obviously been recycled - must be pure though after passing through so many kidneys before mine!!! I dont really buy electronic goods but those I have are made in Germany or Holland. I check place of manufacture of these quite carefully.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">sitting around uselessly in a dark, closed in, small area doing repetitive things is not good for a person.

anyone else see the irony? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

if you read the bible, ancient Isreal had some good laws for theives. basically, the theif would have to pay off twice what they stole. with no theives in prison, we could shut down jails.

[ January 14, 2004, 11:11: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

I too do as the little tiger and the dog do.

I boycott certain companies..

Nike, Gap, Shell , Mcdonalds, Coke... etc...

I know I cannot boycott every clothing company that uses the industrial complexs all over the world. So I just pick and choose. And I stick to it.

I have never owned anything by Nike. Never given shell any of my money. Same with Gap and its stores. Mcdonalds. Going on 12 years now. Coke products 8 years.


I do like a world economy from the little I understand. But it is one of those situations where if your lucky you can look at it from the top, middle ( my location lower middle) and the bottom.

Problem is most of the material i read comes from the top and supports the top.

Not balanced and I am not sorry to say this. It is very complex And there are many many sides to the picture.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">So in order to pay the fine they'd have to steal two more of the same thing from someone else? I see a problem here...

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">17.7 billion doesn't sound right because that's more than the population of the whole world. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">oops, Yes, I did exaggerate a bit; 1.7 billion!
(keyboard entering error)

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Globalization

International Thinking At Its Best!

Question: What is the truest definition of Globalization?

Answer: Princess Diana's death.

Question: How come?

Answer:

An English princess

with an Egyptian boyfriend

crashes in a French tunnel,

driving a German car

with a Dutch engine,

driven by a Belgian who was drunk

on Scottish whisky (check the bottle before you change the spelling)

followed closely by Italian Paparazzi,

on Japanese motorcycles;

treated by an American doctor,

using Brazilian medicines.

This is sent to you by an American,

using Bill Gates's technology,

and you're probably reading this on your computer,

that uses Taiwanese chips,

and a Korean monitor,

assembled by Bangladeshi workers

in a Singapore plant,

transported by Indian truck drivers,

hijacked by Indonesians,

unloaded by Sicilian longshoremen,

and trucked to you by Mexican illegals.....

That, my friends, is Globalization.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

[quote]Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by DavidG:

Quote:

Where do you think the Chinese are getting fish from? Can't our boats go there?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If they're inside Chinese territorial waters, no. Notice you also said east coast fisheries- having to go down to Panama THEN cross to where the Chinease fishermen are fishing isn't going to be profitable. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yea you're probably right. But why China? If I want to eat many kinds of fish I basically have to buy Chinese. Seems wacky. Of course my beef probably has more to do the BS involved in actually getting products on the shelf in grocery stores. there must be other countries exporting fish but they are not making it to my neck of the woods.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

If it’s white fish it’s usually Russian, and only sent to China for processing.

The Russians are now doing the same ****ty stuff in Northern Pacific as you crazy Canucks did outside Newfoundland 15 years ago: Fishing the ocean dry. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Enjoy the cheap Russian/Chinese fish when it’s available. In a few years it will be over. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

I can remember the "Be American, Buy American" sloga and campaign. It was well intended.

Since u would expect to pay more, a lot of companies were busy changing labels. WalMart got caught "washing" clothes from from China.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Who us? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif (I'm pretty sure that was all those evil foriegn ships fishing just beyond the limit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif )

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or go fishing...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Most made in America stuff is actually made in China now with a Made in America stick on it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The government should empose heavy scantions on anything imported from a comunist country as most of the labor is slave or prison, and there price under mines the prices of simular products sold in the USA, that are actually made in the USA, causing USA companies to lay off workers and close their doors.

Just look to the Semi - Conductor market for more proof on that one.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Atrocities;
From dictionary.com http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Most
adj. Superlative of many., much
1a. Greatest in number: won the most votes.
1b. Greatest in amount, extent, or degree: has the most compassion.
2. In the greatest number of instances: Most fish have fins.

n.
1. The greatest amount or degree: She has the most to gain.
2. Slang. The greatest, best, or most exciting. Used with the: That party was the most!

pron.
(used with a sing. or pl. verb) The greatest part or number: Most of the town was destroyed. Most of the books were missing.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Or go fishing...

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">WTF? You can catch fish this way? I thought fishing was just an excuse to get away from the wife and stand around at the edge of the lake drinking beer with the boys.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

China is not a communist country! They do not have a command economy, they have a more or less free market. They are just an authoritarian military dictatorship. They were never really communists (of the Soviet sort) to begin with, and Kissinger under Nixon getting them to sign a free trade agreement with the US in the 60s showed that they never really cared for the communist ideals.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Wardad, loved the "International Thinking At Its Best!"

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">well, if they can't pay, they can work it off. and i don't particurlarly care if some over-sensitive PC person thinks it's slavery. yeah, sure it is. but it would fit the crime. if you steal, you pay. if you can't pay, you make money and the money goes to paying off the costs of your room, food and debt.

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope not French Canada hehe, J/K everyone, well if I had to vote which part of Canada could be part of the US, I would take the western half, sorry http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, speaking for the Western half of Canada, we dont' really want to join America any time soon. Yep, no wars suits me just fine. Hardly any national enemies.... ya that's good too. And everyone loves Canadians!!

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

Agree with you Scoffo but what a pleasant solution it would be if it could be applied to corporate misfeasance by their directors.

You say to the head of Parmalat, "hey, you have siphoned off billions of euros from your company, so what we are going to do is not stick you in prison, but liquidate absolutely all of your assets, reclaim the "borrowed" cash and apply that to shareholders".

Rubber knickers for all dodgy CEOs and FDs I feel!!

Back to reality, I think all you can do is to try and make an informed decision based on the information which is freely available. I have found (for example Proctor & Gamble) that I was purchasing their products before ages, before I read a report about the animal testing. I immediately stopped, and triple check all cleaning products I know buy to make sure.

I think the big difference we can all make is to ensure that we recycle as much as we can. This helps the planet.

For our health, I am a firm advocate of organic produce - the more we eat, the cheaper it will become, and certainly in relation to the meat, the better it is for us.

Try growing your own!! I grow herbs on industrial lines, and make about 3 litres of fresh pesto a year. Tastes the best, and I know that the only thing that might has "soiled" my basil crop is the cats rubbing their backsides over it!!

Re: OT Do you care were the products you buy are made
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">on the other hand, CONSTANTLY GETTING IGNORED BY OTTAWA gets annoying.