Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

The Game arrived this morning.

How do I print this HTML Manual thing out in B&W ?

Do you have any idea what it would cost _us_ to print this 350 page manual in color, especially on a black bockground, in HTML.

I, and I think everyone else, want something to read and refer to, not "pull up" on screen.

I`m gunna be more then a little ticked if this manual cnnot be provided in a text based format as SE III was, especially since you never mentioned the HTML format while talking about the manual.

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Hi there,

is the manual only in html, not in printed form ?

Greetings
Ferendra

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ferendra:
Hi there,

is the manual only in html, not in printed form ?

Greetings
Ferendra<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Game comes with a 45 page printed manual to get you started. ( and for the most part refers you to the CD Manual )

The large, detailed, and very necessary Game Play manual is on the CD in HTML format.



[This message has been edited by Richard Link (edited 10 November 2000).]

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I just got the game today and, yes, the full manual is ONLY in HTML format!!! I understand the need to include the real manual electronically, however I was really hoping it would be a PDF file so those of us who want to print it, can. Printing HTML pages is terrible! I sue hope they put out a downloadable PDF Version of the manual. I will get it as soon as it's available.

Just my opinion...Dave

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Ditto here. A PDF file would be great for those of us that like to have a "game binder" open on our desk while playing the game.

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Sorry guys I just got back from being out of town on business.

The choice of html format was Malfador's but...

I will look into setting up a pdf manual for download. Just depends on how big it is.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard:
Sorry guys I just got back from being out of town on business.

The choice of html format was Malfador's but...

I will look into setting up a pdf manual for download. Just depends on how big it is.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the fast response Richard...your Quality Guys !! This is, at least for me, a major issue.

I just received a somewhat simular EMail response from Arron Hall stating that if "enough folks were interested he would provide a Word Copy ".

You might want to co-ordinate this with him to save effort....but it really is a necessary thing IMHO, and I would urge others to pipe up, here and to Malfador if they felt the same.

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Piping up. It is disapointing whenever I don't get a printed manual, but it's not so bad if I can just hit alt-tab and read what I need. Thing is, HTML was just a bad choice....

And why can I get a 263 page, sprial bound manual with Baldur's Gate II, and pay the same $39.95? 4 CDs, teriffic manual, same price. Tops out at only about 200 hours of gameplay, though......SE4 is infinite....


------------------
KMJ

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Errm, I politely disagree.

I have no trouble at all with the HTML format, I can Alt-Tab back and forth just fine, and I *hate* PDF. For my money, HTML is a far superior cross-platform format for documentation http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

As an owner of a HP2200, I'd love to print out a colour .pdf manual for SE4.

For the record, my mailman is late on the day I expect to get SE4. Guess I'll have to print out a stamp for $6.18 and find something massing 70 pounds to sit by my mailbox. Maybe some bricks.

Oops. *whack* Veteran's Day. All the people with their mail flags up and garbage out threw me. It took a look at the date on the newspaper to remind me. Of course, the huge "Veterans Celebration" headline helpd, too.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited 11 November 2000).]

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

PDF specifies layout. HTML merely provides guidelines; it's up to a browser to determine how to implement the specifics. For instance, the page that I'm looking at right now as I type this message, using Lynx, is radically different than what I'd view using Netscape, which may be different from how it appears under IE or anybody else's browser. There's a lot left up to the browser to determine.

A PDF file, however, should be viewable identically under any true PDF viewer such as Acrobat, with everything specified just so. As such, PDF gives the content author much greater guarantees about what any reader actually sees.

That said, it might be worth chucking the HTML through a converter. I might try that once I get my copy (just ordered. UPS Ground... hopefully it doesn't arrive TOO soon, since I've got a paper deadline coming up, heh...)

------------------
-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I can't believe people actually read the manuals past what they need to know to get started. :} I find them usually to be more trouble than they are worth. I would much rather learn by doing. You make more mistakes, but you can have more fun doing it.

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Get the manual up in PDF. Some people like to spend time playing-to-learn. Others prefer reading-to-learn. Any reason why both can't be accommodated?

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Well people...one good thing about electronic manuals is that the dog can't eat it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Also if you have any kids...they can't lose it or spill a drink on it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I don't have the game yet but I do plan on getting it.

------------------
-Warspite-

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I have all the "tools" to do it (Full Acrobat, etc.) and the web space as well as a commercial web provider. I also should be getting my copy at home today (at work right now - don't tell my boss I'm checking these forums). If it doesn't violate anyones "copyrights" or any other crap, I'll put a .pdf up and post a link on this thread.

[This message has been edited by rdouglass (edited 13 November 2000).]

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Just moving this to the top. BTW is this a "no-no"? (putting the manual in PDF and posting it).

I have not heard from anyone - how 'bout a reply from Shrapnel with an official stance. I really do like the game and do not want to be like those other guys (in other forums) that are already talking about Warez and crap like that. I bought and paid for my copy 'cause I think it's an awesome game and MM and SG deserves to be paid for their hard work. However, I don't feel that putting the manual in PDF (with NO CHANGES) would violate anyones copyright. It would be one thing if they were selling manuals, but they're not - they're selling games and you cant do diddly without the game.

Thanks,

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Well, i can only talk for myself - but, i love it, to sit in a cafe and read the handbook of a really good game.

So, what a pitty, that there isn´t one.

On the other side, to print a manual pushes prices up, especially for a "smaller" companie.

I think, SE4 is a very good game (only played the demo, yet. Still waiting for the full Version to arrive.), even without a printed manual. HTML will do it.

Well, that´s my opinion.

Greetings to all from Germany

Jochen

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Guys,

Okay here goes...

The problem is posting a PDF or the html manual just encourages pirates. I spend a large segment of my time hunting down and trying to take down sites that pirate our games. In fact, more than larger publishers, pirating is something that kills us small fish publishers.

That being said if you wish to make a pdf for your personal use by all means do so. But posting it is a violation of copywirght law.

We wish it didn't have to be that way, but to do otherwise will just encourage pirates and take money out of Malfador's and our pockets. If it were up to us we would allow this, but because some folks seem to think stealing sofwtare is legitimate we cannot do that currently.

We could not originally include the large manual, simply because we had a set price and adding the manual would have meant the price going up (which isn't fair to the pre-order folks) or cutting our profits and Malfador's in half.

One other option we are considering is printing the full manual and offering it for 7.95 from our website. This cost would ONLY cover our printing costs and would not represent profit to us, but it might be an option for some of you. If we here enough support for that we might just do it.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Richard

Thanks for the update. I probabaly would not buy a printed copy of the manual. HTML works fine for me.

Elmo

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

A stated earlier, is it possible to include an in-game link to the full manual? This would aleviate my minimal gripes. A hyperlink that pulls up my browser to the manual (or a specific sectoin of the manual) would be perfect...

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I know Aaron had talked about having something to that effect built into the game.

I think it is a good idea and you guys would probably get it if enough of you suggested it to Aaron.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I do completely understand about copyrights and I do respect it and will not distribute PDF's to people (I will make one for myself though).

However I fail to see the logical connection behind posting a PDF and pirating the game. If you're suggesting that we all bought the game to read the manual, well that's even too dumb to suggest. Maybe you ought to consider making the PDF a download and sell it for $1 since you dont have to ship or print it. If a printed manual is the only solution, then you guys are sounding like the "Big Guys" more and more - that's something we'd here from Microsoft to support another one of their profit centers - Microsoft Press!

If someone is posting WAREZ of SE4, then they'll probably include the manual anyway since its' on the CD. Some people are going to pirate reguardless - in fact some are probably doing it already. That really sucks for us that believe in MM's and SG's products and are putting up the $$'s so you can continue to develop (IMO) the best 4x game out there.

Again, thanks for cleaning up the copyright question. Maybe you can take 5 more minutes and clear up the pirating issue? That is "How does posting a PDF of the manual promote pirating??" Personally, I would think the demo would do more. Just look at some of the other SE4 forums and look at the threads about getting around the 100 turn limit!!!

Well, enough said. Thanks for listening...

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I'm surprised Shrapnel will not encourage distribution of the full manual so that people can better evaluate whether or not they want to buy the game. I thought they were enforcing ownership by scanning the CD, but I suppose people can make an image copy and pirate that way. I was really surprised when I installed from the CD that I did not have to enter a license number to validate the game. In Stars players who share license numbers can never be in the same game because the game will trash their empires if two players submit turns with the same license number.

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

A printed manual as an extra option sounds interesting, but considering the cost of production and shipping it is going to be quite expensive (since it would be an international shipment for me). Probably another $19 for shipping, since it will be just as heavy as the original game.

Not an option for me.

I _do_ want to get a decent printout of the manual, though. That's what laser printers are for, as far as I am concerned.

So is it possible to hit a button and get the complete manual printout in one print job?

If not, then please find a way to get such a manual to us paying customers. I would not mind getting it by email attachment or whatever.

I do not look forward to printing out hundreds of pages separately... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Guys,

I understand how you might be frustrated by this but is a fact that games that have PDF's manuals are pirated MUCH more than games that don't have them as folks have to buy the game to get the manual.

And normally would promote this sort of community involvement but we are forced to do these sorts of things STRICTLY becase of pirating.

Now I have no problem with used generated FAQ's or strategy guides or tech tree's being posted, but out copyrighted manual being posted would just make it an easier target for the warez crowd.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Wait a minute Richard. I'm losing some respect for you guys. Why couldn't you just say that its copyrighted material and leave it at that. You really don't need to be quoting false (IMO) "facts" about pirated S/W. I've been in this computer business for almost 20 years and there are no REAL facts about pirated software - only estimates - no one really knows. If they did really know, there'd be a lot less of it (pirating). Now if your talking about how getting a PRINTED manual with the game discourages piracy, I totally agree. However, we're talking about an electronic manual.

Again, please just tell us the real fact - instead of percieved facts - that it's copyrighted material. Most adults will be able to live with that. If you REALLY want to support the paying customers and are REALLY concerned with the piracy aspect of providing a PDF, then take 15 minutes, build a PDF, and put it on the next release of the CD. If not, quit feeding the bull and p*ssing off your paying customers.

Besides, its not a whole lot more difficult to post an HTML file than a PDF.

[This message has been edited by rdouglass (edited 15 November 2000).]

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

To be perfectly honest we did no want to publish an html manual at all but once we determined how large it would be converted we had no choice.

The pdf is different in that it is an easily transportable and printable format where html is not. In either case we are opposed to posting of this manual (html ot pdf) anywhere.

However if you personally want to make a pdf from the html for your use, more power to you and I would encourage that, just don't post it to another site.

In either case the decision isn't up to me but due to the current state of affairs I support this decision. We are taking steps to ensure that such things don't happen again (ie a manual not being thoroughly checked until far too late in the QA process).

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I'm not sure I agree with you on the ease of PDF vs HTML - to me they're both a "no brainer". Reguardless, I want to thank you for the clear, concise, and (seemingly) honest answer to my ravings.

Thanks!!!

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Id buy the full manual, hey its only 8 bucks! I like having the full manual. (At my house I have to shared the computer, so Id rather be playing than reading a manual, I could read while someone else is doing stuff on the computer.)

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I've uploaded a SEIV Tech Tree listing as a Word doco, to http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/ubbuploads/James+Sterrett/SE4TechTree.doc. It lists all of the techs, makes their inter-relationships & costs more clear, and ought to be easily printable. It also includes some basic info on the various weapons systems.

[This message has been edited by James Sterrett (edited 15 November 2000).]

[This message has been edited by James Sterrett (edited 15 November 2000).]

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Richard, would it be acceptable to Shrapnel to mail out a PDF manual to those paying customers who request it?

From what I have read on the forum someone has already made a PDF which he could give you, and you have the email address of your customers anyway. So where is the problem with that approach?

Just a suggestion... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

This message has also been posted in the "Manual Disappointment" topic.

Hi Guys:

Just so you understand our position. Yes, piracy is one of the issues here and it is an important one. You have to understand the amount of money invested in just the parts to the game. The Last thing any publisher can afford (especially a small publisher) is wholesale piracy as it deletes the investment monies, making it less likely that the game would be supported in future Versions. Remember that investors look at the return on their dollars. If less than they could make in, say, mutual funds, hey then why take the risk. It is all about limiting risk. And the more you set yourself up for ease of piracy, the more it will be pirated. This isn't a great answer for the gamer, I know, as I am one myself, but it is the reality.

But to me is an even more important point. That being the other markets. This is a game that, at some future point, deserves the retail chain, especially in foreign countries where shipping costs can really limit your internet market. If we were to release the manual in other formats, the chance of the larger retailers picking it up would go way down. The more you "deplete" the product like this the less interested the stores are in the product. And for the same reasons - they have to get a certain return on their investment in the product and if they see it being depleted through piracy, they won't take it.

The honest gamer gets hurt by this, I know, and I am sorry for that. We could print a manual and offer it at cost to those who really want it, but we have our doubts as to how many would really pay for this (thus the reason why we didn't include it to begin with - the extra cost involved in printing an almost 400 page manual - plus the issue of the depleted graphics you get in printing 72dpi images).

This is the way we came up with to give the gamer the quality graphics, and the information they need. In so choosing this method, we are minimizing the cost to you, the consumer, maximizing the ROI of the investors and maximizing the amount of money Malfador can make, thus allowing many more Versions to come in the future.



------------------
Tim Brooks
Shrapnel Games

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Dime Greenback:"So is it possible to hit a button and get the complete manual printout in one print job?"

I did this with IE 5, there is an option when you select File &gt; Print, you can check a box labeled "Print all linked documents", this worked fine for me.

Though I would be much much happier with a .pdf document, preferbably with page numbers and a table of contents and an index.

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Say, am I missing something obvious? I find no file listing for any manual on my CD. Is my CD missing something? All it has is the setup, autorun, icon, readme, and demos folder. Where's the manual?

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

For all that it is called the CD manual, it's actually installed to your hard drive. Confused yet? 8)

In the SEIV Start Menu section there ought to be a link to it; it's an HTML file.

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Sire,
i really love this game. I paid 60$ to get it to Germany. I will pay for a well printed manual again a lot of bucks. Why not by Primagames ? No Pirate would like to buy a printed Strategy Guide and Game Manual, only YOUR CUSTOMERS. (Read the Mails carefully, we love the Company, the Game, YOUR WORK. But HELP us with a Solution.)
Thanks, Georg Korch.


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Richard:
Guys,

Okay here goes...

The problem is posting a PDF or the html manual just encourages pirates. I spend a large segment of my time hunting down and trying to take down sites that pirate our games. In fact, more than larger publishers, pirating is something that kills us small fish publishers.

That being said if you wish to make a pdf for your personal use by all means do so. But posting it is a violation of copywirght law.

We wish it didn't have to be that way, but to do otherwise will just encourage pirates and take money out of Malfador's and our pockets. If it were up to us we would allow this, but because some folks seem to think stealing sofwtare is legitimate we cannot do that currently.

We could not originally include the large manual, simply because we had a set price and adding the manual would have meant the price going up (which isn't fair to the pre-order folks) or cutting our profits and Malfador's in half.

One other option we are considering is printing the full manual and offering it for 7.95 from our website. This cost would ONLY cover our printing costs and would not represent profit to us, but it might be an option for some of you. If we here enough support for that we might just do it.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



------------------

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

I understand Tim's point but I think it is wrong. You are obliged to have a deceint instruction manual. Why do I have to play the game several times just to figure out how make star bases? Claiming pirating is the reason why you can't put out a decent rules manual is a lame excuse. I have no problem paying extra for a manual. The game is great but it needs a manual like those found on BotF, Civilization, MOO2,ect...

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I understand Tim's point but I think it is wrong. You are obliged to have a deceint instruction manual. Why do I have to play the game several times just to figure out how make star bases? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah, I think that a good tutorial can do far more for a game than a thick manual. And SE4 has an above average tutorial.

Adding in some advanced tutorials, like building ringworlds, and designing ships with large selections of equipment, and detecting cloaked ships might be handy, but I think tutorials are far more useful than a thick manual.

[This message has been edited by Nyx (edited 29 December 2000).]

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Sure a tutorial helps but you still need a manual. A tutorials are very limited in what they can show. And if you want to look something up its a pain. I for one like to read over the rules before goingto bed. That my point.

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Please, can anybody help me ?
How can i print the HTML Manual with one command ? (IE 5).

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Start at the top page and select "Print . . . " from the File menu. There's a place at the bottom of the window that'll pop up for turning on "Print all linked documents" and, if I'm not mistaken, using that option should print out everything for you. I've not tried it myself but I'm pretty sure it works. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Game Manual in HTML Format ??????
 

Thank you, works fine !