Major Modification
 

Ok I've been reading a series of books by David Weber recently, revolving around a charcter named Honor Harrigton (started with "On Basilisk Station"). I don't know if its by chance or not but a lot of the things in SEIV reminds me of this series, which is neat. Now I was looking at maybe making modifications so that it more resembles the books. Now realistically the best way for it to be played in game would be with two players (one playing the Manticore Alliance, the other the People's Republic of Haven).

Now I'd like to not only make changes to the rules, but also add in pictures for the two new "races". Unfortunetly I don't have much in the way of artistic talent and would appreciate some help in that area (some of the books have some pictures of the vessels, which could be used for a basic reference).

If you think this maybe interesting, or would like to help, just reply or drop me a line at colesw@home.com.

Re: Major Modification
 

Actually, I've been thinking of doing the same thing; some of the elements (drones) aren't in place yet though, and you'd have to make warp points rather common.. which leaves no way to model the Manicore Juntion.

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 17 November 2000).]

Re: Major Modification
 

Yeah thats been my biggest problem...thinking of how to do the junction.
Although if you limited it to a scenario, you could use your own map, having clusters the Manticore being in the middle kinda... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

So for now I'm just kinda worry about the units, its nice to see a 8.5M ton SD in the game http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

I too enjoy this series. I think the senario map ides would work, remember that they travel along grav waves and that these do not necessarily connect every system to every other (I know that they can travel into hyper without the grave wave but that has not been very important to the series as a whole). It might be neat to try a world in Honor's future. Treecat crewed starships anyone?

Re: Major Modification
 

CMSS Nimitz
If anyone can guess the the acroymn you get a smile http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Yeah having treecats as a race would be a interesting idea, perhaps smaller, but more number intensive ships?

This is why I love message Boards, some of the ideas that come from them are awesome! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

Well I had an idea of how to make the "Junction" more of a important factor in a modification for the game...if the warp points that connect other systems together had a value so that it took more time to go through it?

So say for example if you wanted to send your fleet straight from Haven to Manticore, without using the junction, it would take your fleet maybe 10 turns to get there. Now I looked through the data files and it doesn't look like this would be possible with whats there...so maybe a suggestion, and hopefully it wouldn't be hard to implement something like that http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

[quote]Originally posted by SirDarwin:
[b]Well I had an idea of how to make the "Junction" more of a important factor in a modification for the game...if the warp points that connect other systems together had a value so that it took more time to go through it?

I love you guys. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif
Rather than a major recoding project, I'm just waiting for a map editor.

You'd create every system to have a warp point to the 3-4 closest stars. Junction system warp points will have the 3-4 closest stars warp points as well as warp points to far star systems. That way it'll be much faster to zip through junction warp points to far systems rather than mucking about in a dozen smaller junctions.

My problem is with technology. The tech trees and components will need major reworking. I'd rather cut research out of the game completely and "give" either side their upgrades on certain dates. (The Peeps got most of their tech from the Solarian League, anyway.)

Re: Major Modification
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Knight:
My problem is with technology. The tech trees and components will need major reworking. I'd rather cut research out of the game completely and "give" either side their upgrades on certain dates. (The Peeps got most of their tech from the Solarian League, anyway.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I've been thinking about how to do the research, and for the moment (until the scenario editor comes out) some of it has too be researched, but I've hacked and slashed the file pretty good, removing a lot of it so far http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Once I get all the ships hulls in, I'm going to start adding the weapons.

Re: Major Modification
 

The only problem I see is the wedge and sidewalls. They could be considered shields, but there is no way to get up the kilt or down the throat shots since facing doesn't matter in SEIV.

Re: Major Modification
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SirDarwin:
Ok I've been reading a series of books by David Weber recently, revolving around a charcter named Honor Harrigton (started with "On Basilisk Station"). I don't know if its by chance or not but a lot of the things in SEIV reminds me of this series, which is neat. Now I was looking at maybe making modifications so that it more resembles the books. Now realistically the best way for it to be played in game would be with two players (one playing the Manticore Alliance, the other the People's Republic of Haven).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, David Weber was involved in the design/redesign of the Starfire board game, which the SE-series mentions one game that it is based on. Weber led the redesign of 3rd Edition Starfire (and Imperial Starfire).
This was completed around 1993/94.

The Honor Harrington novels started to proliferate around the time that Starfire, 3rd Ed. was finished. Weber most likely incorporated parts of the game into his novels.

Weber did write 3 novels/books set directly in the Starfire universe and timeline; each one had a scenario/ship/tech pack published for the game. The novels are: Crusade, In Death Ground, and Insurrection.

These would probably fit right in with SE4.

Just some trivia, for those who care ...


Dutch

Re: Major Modification
 

"Now I'd like to not only make changes to the rules, but also add in pictures for the two new "races". "

I think the tech would be pretty easy to do. Cut out just about every field besides Missile and High energy, and just tweak those two to resemble HH Cap missiles and graser/lasers. The hard part would be finding someone to do a shipset. It would be pretty generic though as there aren't many pictures of HH universe ships at all.

Knight's idea as to how to model the junction is excellent, and you can even do that now if you're patient. You'd just save the map and include it to be played with your MOD.

Re: Major Modification
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Warlord Adamus:
I think the tech would be pretty easy to do. Cut out just about every field besides Missile and High energy, and just tweak those two to resemble HH Cap missiles and graser/lasers. The hard part would be finding someone to do a shipset. It would be pretty generic though as there aren't many pictures of HH universe ships at all.[quote]

Well there would be a few more tech fields, depending if you wanted to have people start out low-tech, or full blown SDs http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I started at it Last night at work, unfortunetly I didn't back up the file I had there, I made one change...messed up the file (game wouldn't start), I changed it back...and still nothing ... doh http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Yeah the ship set would be kidna generic for both sides (you'd have to think that they got their designs from the Sollies to begin with http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[quote]Knight's idea as to how to model the junction is excellent, and you can even do that now if you're patient. You'd just save the map and include it to be played with your MOD.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, I'm a patient guy, and work nights sometimes, so I have lots of time to do something like that http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dutch:
Actually, David Weber was involved in the design/redesign of the Starfire board game, which the SE-series mentions one game that it is based on. Weber led the redesign of 3rd Edition Starfire (and Imperial Starfire).
This was completed around 1993/94.

The Honor Harrington novels started to proliferate around the time that Starfire, 3rd Ed. was finished. Weber most likely incorporated parts of the game into his novels.

Weber did write 3 novels/books set directly in the Starfire universe and timeline; each one had a scenario/ship/tech pack published for the game. The novels are: Crusade, In Death Ground, and Insurrection.

These would probably fit right in with SE4.

Just some trivia, for those who care ...


Dutch

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Trivia is always cool http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks for it, some more books by Weber I'll probally pick up at some time http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Noble713:
The only problem I see is the wedge and sidewalls. They could be considered shields, but there is no way to get up the kilt or down the throat shots since facing doesn't matter in SEIV.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, unfortunetly this is one of the major things I don't think can be changed with some simple text editing http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif So it may not be a complete representation of Honor's universe, but it'll be as close as I can get it with what I have to work with http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

Webers books are published by Baen books. Check out their website att http://www.baen.com for Webers books and lots of other good authors. Bean Books specialise in SF and Fantasy and more then half of all my books are published by Baen Books.

As for this little modproject, I think it will be interesting, but I can't help thinking it would be easier to make a mod of Webers and Whites (they wrote them together) starfire books that Dutch mentioned.

Re: Major Modification
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jubala:
As for this little modproject, I think it will be interesting, but I can't help thinking it would be easier to make a mod of Webers and Whites (they wrote them together) starfire books that Dutch mentioned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh sure it might be easier, but I've never read those, and enjoyed the 10 books that I have read! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

The only other problem- and the reason I'm waiting to try this- is the bomb-pumped missile warheads and missile pods. Drones would be PERFECT for those, but they aren't in the game.. best we could do would be modified fighters:make the cockpit the weapon, that fills up the entire fighter, and change the graphics.. then use the "destroyed when fired" attribute from the planet killers.

Oh, and the Solarian Leage's attitdude might be hard to model as well :-) (for those who don't know, if someone bombards a planet without first asking for surrender, they destroy the offending navy. It's the only thing the Leauge DOESN'T bicker about; it's automatic and written into their constitusion)

Phoenix-D

Re: Major Modification
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jubala:
As for this little modproject, I think it will be interesting, but I can't help thinking it would be easier to make a mod of Webers and Whites (they wrote them together) starfire books that Dutch mentioned.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Already on it. I've got almost all of the components working. I haven't added satellite energy weapons yet, and I don't think datalink, anti-laser armor, and laser torpedo warheads are possible, but just about everything else is there. I've tested the weapons in combat and the battles are short and brutal, just like in the books.

I've also made 3 or 4 ships for the Terran Federation's shipset, but they need some work.

Re: Major Modification
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
The only other problem- and the reason I'm waiting to try this- is the bomb-pumped missile warheads and missile pods. Drones would be PERFECT for those, but they aren't in the game.. best we could do would be modified fighters:make the cockpit the weapon, that fills up the entire fighter, and change the graphics.. then use the "destroyed when fired" attribute from the planet killers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats actually not a bad idea for now, until we get the drones, and it won't be too hard to implement...I think...I'll try it out now and see how it works in combat http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Oh, and the Solarian Leage's attitdude might be hard to model as well :-) (for those who don't know, if someone bombards a planet without first asking for surrender, they destroy the offending navy. It's the only thing the Leauge DOESN'T bicker about; it's automatic and written into their constitusion)

Phoenix-D<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, unfortunetly I think that'd be more a engine thing, and not something that can be done with text files http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Although I wonder if in a scenario it might be possible, on a random chance (if you kill the navy and all the people on the planet, whos around to tell about it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif that a "new" navy could show up in the game, being at war with which ever navy has been blowing up planets...its a idea, when we find out what we can do with the scenario editor http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

Wow, I thought I was the only one that had thoughts of editing SE to reflect both HH and Starfire!

I didn't get very far, but it would interesting if someone actually did it! Weber's books are some of my favorite fiction, esp. HH!

Re: Major Modification
 

Well I started work on my Missile Pods and unfortunetly it seems even with out any engines they still get a movement of 1...which I guess could be the ship towing them http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

Hrm forgot to hit the submit button their Last time....
Ok well missile pods are nasty http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I can defenitly see how the opening salvo would be very, very nasty.

Also the drone bitmap seems to fit them well.

Re: Major Modification
 

SirDarwin, I really recomend reading Webers starfire books. They are just as good as the Honor books. And all his other books too for that matter.

Cool projects guys, can't wait to see the end reults. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

Jubala, I'll defenitly take a look at them when I finish Ashes of Victory and Hitchhikers guide to the galaxy http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm hoping this will be a cool little mod when it done. Just a little update, currently I have the generic ship sizes into the game, just don't have stuff like the Mars class and Medusa class. Also I've butchered the tech, componets and facilites. I'm sure there are some other things I'll take out add, but for now its kinda getting there http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Currently the largest problem I'm having (now that the missile pod problem is gone, thanks to Phoenix-D http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif is the ability to "lower" the ability to custom design the ships, I mean BuShips wouldn't like you messing around with their designs http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

If I could ask a favour from some of you; I want to start designing the ships, so I was wondering if people could re-read/glance through one of the books, looking for anywhere where it talks about the armaments of a ship. Currently I'm re-reading "The Short Victorous War", so if others could just leave which book they woulldn't mind doing...thanks a lot anyone who helps out!

Re: Major Modification
 

http://www.movie-trailers.com/weber/...onorpedia.html

Re: Major Modification
 

Also:

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tpope/misc/ha...ious-list.html

Re: Major Modification
 

Thanks a lot you two! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

Ok I need a suggestion from you guys. After visting the two webpages listed previously I've started adding the ships. Now since I don't want people to be able to modify the ships (you can of course modify this later) do you think it would be better to list all Destroyers as "Destroyer", or to give them class names? (with a list given out as well).

Right now you get like 5 Destroyer in your list http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Major Modification
 

I think you'll have to make sizes for each major class.. remember, for example, that the Mars class is bigger than most pre-war battlecrusiers.

Phoenix-D

Re: Major Modification
 

Yeah they do have different sizes http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

here is how it looks right now

Destroyer 65
Destroyer 75
Destroyer 79
...

Or should I do it this way

Hawkwing 65
Minstrel 75
Linet 79

Re: Major Modification
 

Hmm...so you're going to model each ship design and save them so they are selectable by the player ? How are you going to model tech advances, by having incompatible components until each tech on the saved ship is researched ? So for instance when DS tech is researched you get every RMN destroyer you can ever get, but only the ones you have tech for will be usable ? This is interesting, maybe i'll give it a try too.

Re: Major Modification
 

I figure thats the best way of doing it...since basically a destroyer hull is the same as the next one, with little tweaks.
Now the Minatour, Mars BC, HH SD, will have their own tech levels, as these are special designs for a ship.

Re: Major Modification
 

-bump- http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
so which way you guys like better?


Destroyer 65
Destroyer 75
Destroyer 79
...

Or should I do it this way

Hawkwing 65
Minstrel 75
Linet 79

Re: Major Modification
 

Well its been a long long time since I've posted here, but I have a *slight* amount of free time now, and figured I'd start working on this again.

Unfortunetly all the work I had previously is gone, including all my ship entries.

Soon I'm hoping to have www.honorverse.com open to the public, which will include a wide range of topics, as well as host my mod. Unfortunetly I don't have the free time I'd like to finish the mod, so would anyone else be interested in helping me out?

Areas where we'll need help.
AI - if its not Human only
Tech - basically most of the old tech will be removed and replaced
Componets/Hulls/Facilities - once again most will be removed and replaced
Art - defenitly need someone for this, also if anyone would be interesting in web work let me know.

Re: Major Modification
 

You must have left bfore I arrived on the forum but... welcome back=-)

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M&gt;M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Work out your code at http://www.sandman43.fsnet.co.uk/se4main.htm

Re: Major Modification
 

Thanks for the welcome http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif