Mod/Extension Posted
 

I posted Version 1.00 of my compiled mods/extension in the "Scenario/Archive" message board. I provided two methods of using the mods: (1) full replace over all files and use all the modification or (2) a "text insert file" with very detailed instructions so you can pick and choose what mods you want and insert them into your own Version of SEIV. Here is a list of the changes:

(1) new subdued menu sounds

(2) new sound for point defense weapons (kind of sounded like someone spitting before)

(3) Added new theoretical science called "Defensive Theory"

(4) Added new applied science called "Planetary Defense" with five levels - each providing an increased level of planetary defense facilities:
- Planetary Shield (200 through 1000 shield points for planet)
- Defense Bunker Complex (+20% through +100% ground defense against troops and bombardment)
- Communications Network (+20% through +100% bonus to fleets defending the area)

(5) Modified AI research files to accommodate new Theoretical and Applied Science projects described above

(6) Modified AI facilities construction que to build the facilities described above

(7) Modified the Main "Settings" file:
- Increased retrofit setting to allow cost difference up to 75% (was 50%)
- Increased damage to kill population to 20 (was 10)
- Decreased starting maintenance cost to 20% (was 25%)

(8) Modified the "Happiness" file to make the neutral race have a few more "positive events" (I thought their population was entirely too hard to keep happy)
- Increase happiness if win battles
- Increase happiness slightly if have ships in area
- Increase happiness slightly if construct new ships/facilities
- Neutral effect if new colonies created

(9) Created a new component enhancement for seekers called "High Yield" which basically doubles the damage but at double the price and a slightly reduced range

(10) Heavily modified the AI vehicle construction and fleet files so that the AI should do the following:
- Build up % of attack ships in fleets
- Use mines and mine sweepers more often
- Build up % of fighters and troops
- Use troop transports more often
- Use boarding ships more often
- Entrench more on the defense with the new defensive facilities described above

(11) Created an AI design for "Defense Ship" (this was never created in the game by the way - possible bug) which includes a new AI strategy for defense of the fleet against seekers. This design is basically an AA platform with repair components (another AI flaw I noticed). The AI construction files already included a call to build the defense ship, but the design was never there.

(12) Modified the AI design for "Troop Ship" to include armor.

(13) Created an additional level for "Cargo" applied science and created additional facilities for each of the resource storage areas (max was level 3 at 40k, now level 4 is the max at 50k). Also added planetary storage facility level 4 - store 4k.

(14) Added an additional ability to Medical Bay Components so that they provide a small amount of research points at each level (on the theory that the vessel containing the component is serving as a research ship type concept - since they are providing medical assistance to different species around the galaxy)

(15) Added an additional ability to 5 types of sensors so that they provide a small amount of intelligence points at each level (on the theory that they are actually providing real-time intel) including: Tachyon, Hyper, Psychic, Temporal and Gravitic)

Many thanks to Aaron and the rest of his team for this game. I have not spent this many hours on a 4x space game since the MOO days and even then there were only a handful of patches and very little interaction with the programmers! Anyway - have fun and please provide feedback!

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Wow!

Alot of this looks great. I dont know if I'll incorporate all of it into my own custom set but I'll certainly pick and choose some of to add. Alot of good stuff in here.

Some of it, I've already done myself as well. I felt that Seekers should have the 'heavy mounts' as well and made the 'Capital Ship Mount' that can fit on Cruiser+ hulls.

One other suggestion I will make is to either 1) allow the smaller hulls (ES,FG,DS) to hold more engines or 2) to have later hulls up the tech tree be able to do so (same size as the ES,FG,DS, just less restrictive on engines). The problem with the latter is that it trips up the AI into building smaller ships again as they are higher tech.

I've gone with option one and increased the engine allowance on alot of these small hulls. Its given them far more longevity in the game. They are good for scouting and quick reaction/raiding forces. In battle, they can race ahead and pound with missiles or else be able to shoot and scoot with relative impunity. Its really caused me to rethink the idea that bigger is always better in the later stages of the game.

I find that I usually keep a few DD's around even late in the game for the purposes I mentioned above whereas previous, the small ships all went the way of the dinosaur as soon as the bigger ones were built.

Another tweak I have added (which I know wont be popular with some) is to increase the 'hull cost' of the larger ships. In my mind, Capital Ships should be expensive to build and maintain, thus allowing the more cost-effective cruisers to comprise the bulk of the fleet.

Suggestion to MM: Would it be possible to have the first ship of a given class cost a bit more (ie the prototype). This might encourage players to pick a design and standardize a bit rather than constantly updating the ships turn after turn as soon as a new gadget is researched. I think the Starfire series gave a discount for every ship after the first of the class. For purposes of SE4, I think a small premium paid on the first ship of every class would be more practical. It wouldnt have to be huge (20-25%?) but at least it would be incentive to standardize a bit.

Thanx for making all your mods available. Even the parts I dont use will help me to see ideas for adding other tweaks in the future.

Talenn

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Interesting. Looks like you put alot of work into this. Have you playtested this to check if the AI actually does build (and use) minesweepers?

Your bunkers are nice. I was planning something similar but more on the line of safe hidingplaces for troops so they couldn't be bombarded away before an invasion but I couldn't figure out how to do it so...

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Tampa_Gamer:

Ok, I just downloaded the file and am pouring through the contents. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I've noticed a few things that I want to ask ya.

Have you actually seen the 'Stock' Races in the game research and build some of this stuff? It appears that you modified the DEFAULT research file, but I think each of the included races has their own file for this. I think the default file is only used it a racial specific one is not found in the directory.

I suppose that it would be possible to go through each races' AI files and make the necessary adjustments though. For me, I grow more hesitant to continue to diverge for the defaults as it greatly increases the workload when patches are released.

Great work though. Your stuff is very well done and I'll be adding quite a bit of it to my existing set after all. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Actually no, I have not modified the individual races yet. Since this is Version 1.00 I really wanted to make sure the AI changes had a thorough testing before I started tweaking them. I have some extensive plans for the specialty races to make them more like the races in MOO (I believe somebody had a discussion item about this). Some of my fondest memories of MOO were had b/c the races had so much personalty (i.e. you are exploring and expanding, perhaps trading with the humans, when all of a sudden you have first contact with the Darloks!! You knew that you had to boost your intel stats fast otherwise they would get all your tech in a few years and put you at war with the humans by blaming you for their spy actions.

But to answer your specific question, yes I did play test this with a number of neutral races involved and they seemed to use the beefed-up files much more.

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Is this compatible with patch 1.11? Will it over write what this fix corrects? Other wise excellent mod.

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Yes, this mod was created using the "fixed" files contained in the Version 1.11 patch. In the readme.txt file contained in the zip, there is a full explanation (step-by-step) of the additions/changes made.

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Yep, it says this right in the begining of your readme.txt. Great mod. I like the bunker idea's the best.

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
(2) new sound for point defense weapons (kind of sounded like someone spitting before)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Killer loogies! Killer loogies! A-ptooie!

Sorry . . . it's been a stressful weekend. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif


<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
(4) Added new applied science called "Planetary Defense" with five levels - each providing an increased level of planetary defense facilities:
- Planetary Shield (200 through 1000 shield points for planet)
- Defense Bunker Complex (+20% through +100% ground defense against troops and bombardment)
- Communications Network (+20% through +100% bonus to fleets defending the area)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Am I misremembering or aren't there planetary shields already available high up in the Shields tech area?

The bunkers are a great idea!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
(8) Modified the "Happiness" file to make the neutral race have a few more "positive events" (I thought their population was entirely too hard to keep happy)
- Increase happiness if win battles
- Increase happiness slightly if have ships in area
- Increase happiness slightly if construct new ships/facilities
- Neutral effect if new colonies created<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

True. And even if you are devotely neutral, knowing the military just won instead of lost really should be a Good Thing!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tampa_Gamer:
(14) Added an additional ability to Medical Bay Components so that they provide a small amount of research points at each level (on the theory that the vessel containing the component is serving as a research ship type concept - since they are providing medical assistance to different species around the galaxy)

(15) Added an additional ability to 5 types of sensors so that they provide a small amount of intelligence points at each level (on the theory that they are actually providing real-time intel) including: Tachyon, Hyper, Psychic, Temporal and Gravitic)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ooo, awesome ideas there! Very logical in concept and definitely expands the options! Very cool! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

&lt;One other suggestion I will make is to either 1) allow the smaller hulls (ES,FG,DS) to hold more engines or 2) to have later hulls up the tech tree be able to do so (same size as the ES,FG,DS, just less restrictive on engines). The problem with the latter is that it trips up the AI into building smaller ships again as they are higher tech.

I've gone with option one and increased the engine allowance on alot of these small hulls. Its given them far more longevity in the game. They are good for scouting and quick reaction/raiding forces. In battle, they can race ahead and pound with missiles or else be able to shoot and scoot with relative impunity. Its really caused me to rethink the idea that bigger is always better in the later stages of the game. &gt;

I like this and it makes sense. Mind telling me where and how to change it? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif The AI apparently doesn't like cruisers. I likes the CLs. I guess I agree with it when cruisers only get 4 MPs...why is that? I had five engines. Anyway...

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Tampa_Gamer:

Ok, I've fired up a few games using non-default races to test out some of the new gadgets. It does work fine. Its good to see the AI using some of the new toys. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

A few other questions/comments...

1) The defense ship concept is good, but it ties up the AI resources in ships that are otherwise useless if not fighting Missile/Fighter races. I tend to have the latter, but others I've watched play dont bother and thus a decent portion of the AI's fleets are essentially useless. I'm not sure what the solution is here as the AI has no 'response' routines, only a stock build queue.

2) The AI needs to research and deploy 'planetary weapons' to compensate for the new defenses and the change in damage to kill one pop. As it is now, it often bombards ineffectively with its stock ships. A human player builds the planet busters and is none the worse (although I like the effect), but the AI loses capability.

3) I'm not sure the Shield Generators produce enough to be worthwhile. They are taking up valuable space on your planets and dont really protect you all that much. I'd probably increase the base level of the shielding and have it increase at a flatter rate...just my suggestion. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

4) I'm thinking about experimenting down this path and wanted to check and see if you had already done so and with what results: Adding additional design types to the defaults and then using these types to encourage the AI to build differing ship types. For example: Add 'Bombardment Ship' to the list, then add a 'design type' to the AI designs for the 'Bombardment Ship' and finally, insert it into the AI's build percentages. The same could also be done to encourage the AI to build 'Missile Support' Ships or to have some Torpedo ships and some Beam ships etc. This is similar in scope to your addition of 'defense ships' to the AI's routines.

5) You mentioned the possibility of making it so that it is impossible to land on a planet with Shields up. Personally, I like it the way it is now as it might encourage defensive troops. Also, it fits with some Sci-Fi concepts of dumping troops to knock out the Shield Generators etc.

Ok, I'll post more as I find out more about the workings of the AI. Please continue to do the same. I am VERY interested to see your revamped race personalities.

Thanx for your time and work,

Talenn

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Ebonyknight:

Sure, its fairly easy. Go into the 'Data' directory and open the 'VehicleSize.txt' file. Find the ships you want to change and change the 'Requirement Max Engines' line to 7 or 8 or whatever you want.

I'm actually expermenting a bit with adding a Tech Area for 'Hull Streamlining' which will make the faster ES/FG/DD/CL hulls available. That way it wont trip up the AI (it simply wont research them) and it holds no danger of upseting the early game balance between missiles and speed. I'll let you know how it works out if you are interested.

Talenn

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Talenn:

Thanks for the feedback. Actually the defense ship concept is supposed to include a repair component or more when the AI gets big enough ships. This way they are not useless if there are no missile/fighters. Did you see any repair components? I may need to tweak this some more, but I wanted the AI fleets to contain "repairers" as most human opponents do.

On the AI attacking planets you are correct, I found the AI rocket pod fighters do fine, but if they use beam weapons against the planet, no dice. Again, this may need additional tweaking.

If a number of people are interested in creating MOO races, we should divide them up so that we are not duplicating our efforts (I have started on the Darloks). Then we can combine our files in the end to create a race extension.

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Tampa_Gamer:

Ok, well, I'd like to divy up the races so we dont duplicate effort, but at the moment, I'm not quite up to snuff on how to tweak the AI personalities yet. I'm still very much in the 'experimental' stage.

I'm actually looking forward to your Darloks so I could use that as a benchmark to learn. Are you going to include custom 'Speech', 'Anger', and 'Politics' etc files? It seems like ALOT of work, but I think that will really be the only way to get distinctive feeling races. Also, I'd assume you'd have to revamp the 'Colony Type' and whatnot files to encourage it to build more Intel Facilities. Also, are you going to use custom pictures as well? I know that is one particular aspect I'm helpless in. I cant draw 3d ships worth a darn. It would be neat to get the old MOO pictures for the Race Portraits etc though.

I'll pay more attention to whether or the not the AI is using the repair module. It was late Last night when I was messing with it and I honestly didnt check in the games I played.

Hope to see your Darlok mod soon. I'll continue to experiment as well and compare notes.

Talenn

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Talenn,

What settings have you found that work for you smaller ship/faster speed idea? I was going to bump up the number of engines one each so that DD was 7 and ES was 9.

But you mentioned something about the missle speed. Does this make them faster than missles? Where can you edit missle speed to compensate for this? How does it all play out with the faster ships?

Let me know about your mods (both of you actually).

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Missile (Seeker) speed is adjusted in the "Component.txt" file in the ...\Data directory and yes, unfortunately I think that would create an imbalance with early Seeker speeds, they recently tweaked the speed in the 1.11 patch to further balance this concept. I do like the ideal of additional uses in late games for smaller ships though. . .

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

EbonyKnight:

I have added the 'Streamlined Hulls' Tech Area to my set and my initial tests show that it is working.

Basically, I have it set so that at level 5 Ship Construction, a new area opens that when researched gives you access to the 4 new, faster Hull Types. I also gave them an increased (5%) defensive bonus to make them seem more attractive later in the game as well. I may increases this defensive bonus as well in an effort to make the small ships viable into the later stages of the game.

My new Hull Types are capable of 8 Engines for the ES/FG/DD and 7 for the CL. I was hesitant about allowing these speeds in the early game when the weapons are so slow and short ranged. I wouldnt want to tweak the Missile Speeds any further at this point either. I think they are fine as they are overall.

I'll let you know how it works out in the games I'm playing. If you make the changes and notice something you like or dont like, please let me know as well.

Talenn

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

I must question whether all of these things work the way you think they do. Not all abilities transfer from components to facilities or vice versa, and MM has not clearly documented which ones do or do not.

The "Change Ground Defense" ability description in abilities.txt says it changes GROUND combat. Given how tough it is for troops to conquer a planet, maybe this is not a good idea right now. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif But, yeah, the ability has been there for a while and MM has not got around to making a facility to use it. Same for Planetary Shields. There's nothing but the "artifact" technology. I have added both types of facilites to my custom techs.

The "Combat to Hit Dec" ability doesn't work with Weapons Platforms, just like multiplex tracking. In both cases the planet's attributes super-cede the units abilities. I doubt that either of these works with facilities either. Have you verified that this works somehow?

There is also no reason to think that adding research point generation to a component would work. I tried it a long time ago and it did NOT work. It is certainly possible that the game has been changed but there was never any announcement of this. Have you tested this and proved that giving a Medical Bay this ability actually produces any research points? Or that adding intelligence point generation to the various sensors really produces any intelligence points?

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 27 November 2000).]

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

All:

Baron is indeed correct about the 'Point Generation' on Components. I hadnt added that part of the Tampa_Gamer's Mod to my set but decided to try it out as an experiment. The points are not added.

Baron:

Well, in the absence of any information, its trial and error. In this case, he was not able to accomplish what he wanted, but at least an effort was made. As a tester, you have access to far more info than the end user. At this point, I'm just as happy to see someone experimenting in this fashion so we can all benefit.

If you have any further info that we can use (and obviously only if doesnt violate any NDA's http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif ), please throw it out there whenever/wherever you can. It might save some of us alot of time in trial and error mistakes if we know that someone else has already tried it.

Thank for the catch on Tampa_Gamer's mod and please add your input to any other mod discussions. Experience is very helpful with these types of mods methinx http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Talenn

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Talenn:
I have added the 'Streamlined Hulls' Tech Area to my set and my initial tests show that it is working.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds great. I'd like to see the filechanges you made.

A question. I assume it's impossible to retrofit an old frigate to a design based on the new streamlined hull, right?

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Baron:

Thanks for the info! This is exactly why I posted the Mod as Version 1.0 - to get this kind of feedback. Could you possibly post a short list of abilities that do no cross-over between facilities/components based on your tinkering and what other beta testers have posted in your forum? The way the documentation reads now, this is never explained, so it could save a lot of time for everyone. I did some preliminary testing on the "Combat Hit Dec" ability and the Resource Point Generation, but obviously I was not thorough enough. I apologize to anyone who wasted the time installing those specific mods, but this is all new to me and we are all learning the "undocumented features" at the same time!

Anyway, can any of you explain exactly what the .emp files do and how you can make them (or read them for that matter). I saw some posted on the Hyperion website and am curious how they effect the game.

P.S. - I would like to see how others are modifying their files, please post your mods and take a few minutes to explain how you did it (similar to the readme.txt in my mod). This not only helps others understand what you did (so they can offer pinpoint feedback like Baron) but it also serves as an educational tool for the rest of us.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 28 November 2000).]

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Was doin a little search on the board and ran across this thread. It was before my introduction to the game so I have never seen it.

My question is to Tampa mainly (& any other modders that replied in this topic) but what is the relationship b/t this old mod and the Mod Pack 1.01? I understand some of the ideas proved non workable but some of em sound rather interesting (like 4, 9 & 13).

Another question to any who read this.

Who designed the PD mount mods for the Weapon Platforms and Base mounts increasing the range of PDs based on platform size?

------------------
Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

[This message has been edited by WhiteHojo (edited 07 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by WhiteHojo (edited 07 February 2001).]

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Whitehojo-

I am suprised you found this. This was in the "early" days when nobody knew which abilities could be used by components/facilities. Anyway, I still use some of these in my "personal" mod, but NONE of these mods are included in the AI Mod pack b/c we all agreed that we should not modify research/components/facilities since it would be a pain for people to have to incorporate the modified data sets into their existing personal mods. We also felt that with all the changes in the patches and new discoveries about AI behavior and file interaction, that our time would be best served providing a number of difficult races and improving AI.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 07 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 07 February 2001).]

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

thanks for the info - doin a search on this board is kind like goin to a rumage sale - you never know what you'll find.

------------------
Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhiteHojo:
Another question to any who read this.

Who designed the PD mount mods for the Weapon Platforms and Base mounts increasing the range of PDs based on platform size?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I did that one.

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Daynar - thanks for the reply - use em & love em... I assume that they are still posted somewhere in the mod section?

------------------
Character is best defined as that which you do when you believe nobody is watching.

Re: Mod/Extension Posted
 

Thanks WhiteHojo, I appreciate it. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Yes, the mod should still be in the mod section