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RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
That's right folks! The famous Return to Hell classic from PBW will soon be entering its second installment. This time it will bring new twists to the proverbial table to make things a little bit more interesting.
For those who are not familier with the first RTH game here is a little bit of history from it. A while ago I started a game on PBW that was called Return to Hell. In this game we had 12 players and each player started in his own cluster of system (12-15 or so in each cluster) with no warp points to access the other cluters. Technology wise we started with fulltech on meaning that every technology was available to each player from the very beginning. It was a 5 or 10 planet started as well, I don't remember which, so this meant those clusters filled quickly with planets and soon resources were more then abundant. By the time people started leaving their clusters they had multiple, yes multiple, Sphereworlds all over their clusters. It wasn't uncommon to see multiple fleets of 500+ baseships flying around. But by the time any major wars started breaking out, and before anyone invaded any sphereworlds the game reached a limit. PBW could no longer process the turns because the turn file was greater then 2MB! We could have continued the game by me manually processing the turns from home and then sending to everyone but this too proved to be hidious as I did not have the time to undertake the task at the current time. Therefore, we declared a 3 way (I think it was 3 way) tie between the top 3 empires in the game. It was truely a historical game and one that will never be forgotten, by me at least. But now it is time to break those records, and bring new twists to the game. Yes, it is time for RTH2! This time there will only be 6-10 players to help with the file size. I imagine we will have 10 players because a few of the players from RTH 1 said they would play in Version 2 once it was started. Over the next few days I will release some information regarding this game as far as game settings and so forth. I started this thread in order to see who all will be interested in playing in this game and too possible get some ideas that we could implement into this game. If you do have any ideas please let me know either here or by emailing me at seivgold AT yahoo DOT com. Once I decide on how many systems and I find out how many players (max 10) will be in this game I will be needing a map maker who will not be participating to make the map for me. Any comments and suggestions are most welcome. [ February 18, 2004, 13:24: Message edited by: Ragnarok ] |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Here is a little bit more information that I have for right now.
We will not be starting with full tech this time around. This will make the mid-game a little bit more interesting as players begin transforming their planets to contain monolith facilities instead of just miners. And then also they will have to begin scraping research facilities to build more miners and or monoliths. Current sign up list: 1- Ragnarok More information will be released as it becomes available. Edit: Another thing I should mention is that the Last game Lasted along time, several months at the very least. Therefore, if you do not think you will be able to play your turns within the coming months on a regular basis then I strongly suggest that you do not apply to join this game. But I will not let that hinder you joining as I cannot make that decision for you. [ January 28, 2004, 19:54: Message edited by: Ragnarok ] |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Count the Primitive one in too.
May I suggest not using FQM this time ? Converting 100s of Astroides to planets get quite tedious after a while http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif That will keep the filesize down a bit too. |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
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In other words - if you make it full tech, then sign me up. |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
make the map small, that'll cut down on filesize to.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Wouldnt the player be best researching into open and close warp points to get access to other players - although they would be weakened to start with in terms of those players pursuing weapons tech.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
You could use FQM no-AST.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
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Here are some other settings that can be negotiated and discussed. Starting resources: 100000 Starting planets: 10 (Open to discussion) Home planet value: Good Score display: Own or allied, whichever. Technology level: High Racial points: 5000 Quadrant type: Custom made map. Quadrant size: Custom made map. Event frequency: High (Open to discussion) Event severity: Catastrophic (Open to discussion) Technology cost: Not applicable. Victory conditions: Hopefully Last man standing, but allied will be acceptable if circumstances do not allow anything else. Maximum units: Till the game will allow no more. Maximum ships: Till the game will allow no more. Other game settings: Intel will be off. Surrender will be allowed but only to the player whom is whooping your arse at the particular time. If in the event of two players beating you with an ugly stick then something will need to be decided. I am open to suggestions in this regard. No locking yourself in; either by system shields or by warp point max. Regarding the map. I agree that we shouldn't use FQM this time. Having that many planets was rather tidious to keep track of and everything. I liked Geo's idea of; Quote:
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
How about a modified quadrant type with a fewer overall number of planets, but larger then normal proportion of huge planets. You could get some really staggaring size military forces without the corespondingly large number of planets to deal with.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
*Bump*
Revised list of players: 1 - Ragnarok 2 - Primitive 3 - Spoo(?) 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - Anyone else interested? The rest of the game settings will probably be decided when we get our final group of players together. Also still looking for a map maker. |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
well you know i am back...
as for the map i can make another one... as it really does not matter if people know the map... since we all build and lock away anyways.... and the map will be available for view... maybe that selection that we all can kind of see the map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
I figured you would be back Tesco, but I didn't want to assume it. You know how that saying goes... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
If you're willing to make the map that is fine with me. As long as everyone else is ok with it. I don't see any problems with having a player make it as long as everyone has a chance to look at it so there are no unfair advantages. But as you said, in this game there is no huge advantage to knowing the map before anyone else. I've been racking my brain trying to think of something to do with the map that will make things more interesting but I cannot think of anything. I will let you know if something comes up though. As has been discussed the clusters shouldn't have nearly as many planets as Last time. I think we should have around 10-12 systems in each cluster but only have a total of no more then 200 planets in each cluster. Revised list of players: 1 - Ragnarok 2 - Primitive 3 - Spoo(?) 4 - Tesco 5 - 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
If you don't mind having someone relatively new to PBW in the game, I'd like to join. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
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Revised list of players: 1 - Ragnarok 2 - Primitive 3 - Spoo(?) 4 - Tesco 5 - Renegade 13 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
I think I'm up to the challenge. And yep, Renegade 13 is my PBW name, the same as here. (I'm assuming that was what you were asking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) Although for some reason, sometimes it only shows up as Renegade http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Don't really know why.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
By all means, sign me up!
[edit:] How long will turns be? [ January 30, 2004, 18:32: Message edited by: Spoo ] |
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Revised list of players: 1 - Ragnarok 2 - Primitive 3 - Spoo 4 - Tesco 5 - Renegade 13 6 - 7 - 8 - 9 - 10 - |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
i think we should do it on a grade for the turns
1. turns 1 to 40 --- 48 hours max 36 is good but no less as these games are very time consuming 2. after that those that remain vote on increases... as some of the turns do become very time consuming if you have not had the nack of automating everything... |
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
This game looks interesting. Please, Sign the Electrum Up!
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Here's another question. Is Religious Tech a "no-no" or a "must have"? With 5000 racial pts and full tech, it's very tempting.
The proposed turn lengths sound good to me. |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
In the first RTH, most people took religious and I will take it again if its not Banned (and Tesco will promise not to ***** about it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). With the massive numbers of ships this kind of games will generate, keeping track of trained/untrained ships is a nightmare, the talisman makes this redundant. Anything that reduces micromanagement is good in these huge games. And then of course there is the Natureshrine. Getting those babies up early can really make a difference to resource generating.
Temporal is good too for the Shipyards (you get those for free on your starting planets) and the shield damaging weapons. Organic for its cheap ships. Crystalline for its Armor, Maintanance reduction facility and the Solar collector Don't see much use for Psycic though (unless religious is Banned). Anyway: Here is some personal records from RTH1 which I will try to break http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Resources: 35,4 Mill Planets: 739 (of which 33 was Ringworlds) Ships: 2584 (+ a bunch that was mothballed) Bases: 1806 (Almost all shipyards) |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Count me in. I agree the point primitive made. Talisman and nature shrine are the most unbalanging techs in the game, so if religious is allowed, I suggest either tech is Banned from using. I suggest that Talisman is forbidden.
Also I suggest that any human player is not allowed to demand Computer players to surrender. This way some players can get quite big advantage. Furthermore we need strick rules how much we are allowed to use System shields. Is one access point from sealed cluster away enough? Or are they Banned all together? Are we alloved to seal system by making 10 warp points in there? My suggestions as list are: 1. either religious trait or talisman itself is Banned 2. Human must not demand AI players to surrender 3. We could use Fyron's Devnull mod. It makes fighters, missiles and mines more usable. 4. Do we wait until the next patch is released? Hopefully it comes out soon. Also we can update the game during turn executions like we did Last time. Primitive, here are my stats. They are not as good as yours, but close http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Resources: 20,5 Mill Planets: 805 (of which 12 was Sphereworlds + >10 under construction) Ships: 2402 (+ a bunch that was mothballed also) Units: 31400 Bases: 2134 (Almost all shipyards). Population: 730,3B [ February 01, 2004, 11:31: Message edited by: Karibu ] |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
there is a difference about *****ing and complaining about losing 1000 base ships in a few turns Primative http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
How many game turns did the first RTH run? To get numbers like the ones below, it had to have been a long time!
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Primitive is right. We were just (me and him, the biggest races in the game) developing an execuse for a war, when the game collapsed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif I wanted so much those tasty lizard steaks I was now denied http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I am truly disappointed that I didin't witness/fight any major battles. I think the biggest ones I have participated have been 200 ships max on other side (both sides counted less than 400). I think it will change in the next game.
[corrected few typos] [ February 01, 2004, 19:26: Message edited by: Karibu ] |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
So why did you not just continue it with a PBW alternate site? It would not have the 2 MB limit that PBW does.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Is there another site to play in? I haven't been aware of this until now. Please, tell us more. This new game will propably face same fate like the first one with current server, I'm afraid.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
With only 10 people and sans the FQM insantity, it probably won't get as bad.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
The site needs to increase it limits !
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Ok, I have contemplated some of the dicussions that have taken place here and I'm nearing decisions.
Size limits: If this game gets too large for PBW I will be using Ruatha's PHP script to run the turns from either our server here at work or possible asking someone else to host it for me. But until that time it will be run on PBW. Religious: It sounds like the majority would like to see this Banned for this game. If that is the case it will indeed be Banned. Some more input will be required to make a decision. My personal vote is to ban it but as usual I will go with majority vote for this. As for the reasoning that Primitive put to the table about training and it being a pain to keep track of all of this. I'd say get rid of training centers as well and make it so you only gain exp. by winning battles and so forth. Ideas on this are welcome. Turtles: When it comes to using System Shields you must leave at least one system open for warping in. But the more I think about this if we did it like this, then it would be easy to just build a huge fleet(s) in that system and then no one would be able to get in and attempt an attack. Therefore I think I will ban the use of the system shield in this game. Patch: The game will probably not be started until after the next patch is released. Unless, of course, we can get things organized sooner then that. I believe that is it for now. If I forgot anything let me know. Revised list of players: 1 - Ragnarok 2 - Primitive 3 - Spoo 4 - Tesco 5 - Renegade 13 6 - Electrum 7 - Karibu 8 - 9 - 10 - |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
Banning the system shield is going to make for a chaotic game. You might not get the type of fleet actions you're looking for- just open warp point, send in fleet with star destroyer, boom.
Perhaps a small mod to make the system shields not stop warp points? |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
i say keep training and keep the talisman... just drop a hint that it would be really smart for players to take religous... Training is easy... send ships to training centre... have them hang around in training fleet if there is a moon then fleets, ships train at 6% So... you have 5 training fleets ... 1 dummy ship that stays in the fleet... So Train fleet 1 to 5... And then your real fleet... So on turn 1 all ships that arrive go into train fleet 1... 2 for turn 2 , 3 for turn 3, 4 for turn 4... On turn 5 fill train fleet 5 and then move the ships out of train fleet 1 ( except for the dummy ) and move them into the real fleet... On turn 6 you dump the new ships into train fleet 1 and move out the ones from train fleet 2.... Very easy and easy to follow...
or ban religous and advanced military science... I would like to keep the system shields... I see no wrong in killing your warp point out to a bad universe and then opening another one up somewhere else... ITs a big game and we all want to set up our systems.... All were going to do then is just create 10 warp points between each of our systems... So just keep the system shields... I like to build my defences to see how they will hold out... ( as I never got to use them in the Last game... I would like to see it this game ) |
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It looks like the majority will vote for religious so we will leave that in. Training stays as well, doing it Tesco's way is rather simple really. I'm sure most players will knot that you pretty much will need to take religous trait to have a chance to play in the late game. Well, you wouldn't need to, but it is taking a large risk not taking it. Hopefully this week I will find time to write up a story background for this game. That brings up another point, I would like to encourage roleplaying if possible. It will add a little bit more flavor to the game. |
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
I'm all for leaving Religious in, but isn't it going to be a little redundant? Everyone is going to take it, therefore there's no real advantage for anyone. Of course, you still have the religious facilities which are a great advantage themselves.
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Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
I suggest that religious should be Banned because EVERY sane person will take it. Without it there will be more diVersion in empire designs. However, I accept whatever you decide. Also I remind that asking AI to surrender should be Banned. I know that because Last game I got few empires rather easy that way (it wasn't even fun anymore).
[ February 02, 2004, 16:22: Message edited by: Karibu ] |
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I'm still a little torn between what to do with religous. I will wait for more feedback before a final decision is made. If it is Banned I think we should just mod out the talisman and keep the other facilities available to those who want to spend the points to get them. |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
if a human player is going to get hammered... they should surrender to the attacker....
if it is more than 2 empires attacking they can work out the details... and if their not happy attack each other .... I vote for surrender... Why drag it out ??? |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
It doesn't matter to me if Religious is in or not. If it is, then I'm taking it.
However, I do vote that the option for player to see all systems be turned off. Otherwise the planets screen will be too crowded to be of much use in sending colony ships quickly. A notable side effect of being able to see all systems would be that it would also let us see where ring/sphereworld were constructed and any planet name changes before we've even visited the system. But if you like that idea, then I suggest that you turn on "view all scores", so that we can all marvell at the size of each others' Doom Fleet. |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
My humble opinions.
Surrender; OK to the player who hammers you but only when you are truly done for (riot problems). Make any (hopefully there will be none) early abandoned empires free game, but make it illegal to ask them for surrender. Religious; I really don't care one way or the other. Just wanted to make a point of no *****ing (sorry Tesco http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) by those brave souls that didn't take it. If we use a no Talisman mod, I may spend the 1500 points just for the Nature Shrine anyway. I do like the no Training option (ban Advanced Mil. Science) but then we have to ban (or mod) Psychic too. Turtling is for cowards. The Horde will always keep a door (or two) open. Beer and Pretzels for everyone. (BTW: Beer is a class of Baseships, Pretzels are Dreads http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ) Don't like Spoo's idea of "view all scores" at all, but I would not have a problem with leaving the Position or even the Score viewable on PBW. Getting info about the other guys empires is half the fun. And absolutely no "all systems can be seen by all players". |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
You can't just make it "illegal" for them to surrender because surrender can't be refused and the AI WILL surrender.
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Religious; I would like more input still before final decision is made. I am sure some of us will take religious even if the talisman is taken out due to as Primitive brought out the Nature Shrine Quote:
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I'm not sure about the position and score option being on on PBW even. I may end up turning that option on though. Quote:
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</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The Psychic training facilities http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif They train all ships/fleets within the system and will still be available after Advanced Military Science is disabled. |
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I think we will end up playing with a small mod for this game. Modding out the talisman (should that be the decision) so that the rest of the Religious tree is available for anyone to use. Also modding out the training centers in the Psychic tree as well. |
Re: RTH has filled all slots; discuss the game here!
What's wrong with training? It's not that hard to keep track of with waypoints and such. Plus, If a player wants to be lazy they can just take Psychic.
If you take away Psychic's training facility, the trait becomes very poor. I think we should deviate from a stock game as little as possible. Barring that, we should just switch to a full mod where issues like the Talisman have already been addressed. |
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