FAQ...First 50 turns
 

I am new to this board, but I have been reading a lot of Posts, (currently on page three). I would like to say that there a lot of civil and intelligent people on this board and all the Posts have helped me a great deal. What I wanted to start was a FAQ for newbies (like myself) that would list different successfully strategies for the first fifty turns for this game. Thanks for any response.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

First thing you should build is a space Yard - a starbase that has the minimum required parts plus one Space construction Yard.

Now you have two ship construction facilities, though the one on your planet is faster.

Design a dedicated recon ship - smallest size, no weapons or armor, three supply crates; this is a cheapo ship to run and explore the map.

Design a colony ship; be sure to add an extra cargo crate to it so you can haul more colonists.

Design a missile boat: pack a CSM launcher onto an otherwise unremarkable small ship. Used correctly, this ship can demolish opponents in the early game (run away and pepper the enemy with missiles).

I tend to play in large galaxies, so I have time to expand before I'm in contact, so I build colony ships like mad, along with a few recce ships and missile boats.

Research Construction, then Mines. Build a mine/sat layer ship: a cargo vessel with one mine layer and one sat layer. Now you can mine your planets and warp points! 8) Large warheads (warhead tech 3) is a cheaper path to better mines than doing the mine research to get bigger mines.

Crank your CSM tech to 2 or 3 to make your missile boats good. For some reason, CSM 1 missiles don't seem to kill planetary weapons platforms, but CSM 2+ ones do.

Then work on the military science, chem, physics, and psych trees to get:

- Point Defence

- Armor

- Resource conVersion

- Applied Poli Sci (for pacification centers)

- Shields

- Phased Polaron Beams

Also crank up your ship tech for bigger hulls.

Alongside this, do applied research, then applied intelligence; alternate between these are long-term projects.

Expand like a rabbit; build mines to protect your worlds and systems.

Others will have different strategies, I'm sure. 8)

[This message has been edited by James Sterrett (edited 19 December 2000).]

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Here are some military research tips for starting empire:
1. Go as fast as you can to the DUC level 5 (DUC - Depleted Uranium Cannon). That thing is cheap to research and gives you some fair firepower while you research better things.
2. Research Chemistry and then Armor to level 3. This is much cheaper to research then the shields, and only Shield IV and Shield V have better protection per tonnage.

This will give you very comfortable start and leave you enough time to research for some other things (most of them covered by James).
Hope this is of some help. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Here is another quick tip:
- When you decide on research NEVER divide points evenly. When you don't use it, all the research points are used on 1st tech in queue. If number of research points exceeds the required amount for that tech, then all the extra points are used on following tech. This is a point where dividing research fails (extra points are lost there). Also make sure that you have enough techs in queue to use all your research points.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Something not mentioned yet (AFAIK) is that if your race has a special technology (organic, crystal, etc.) then I would strongly suggest you invest in researching that early and often.

Your race paid a lot of points for that tech. and these techs (all of them) can be pretty powerful (esp. in the early game).

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The Grumbling Grognard

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Propulsion can make an excellent early research area. I like to take it up to level 4 and get the move advantage over my opponents. Combine faster ships with long-range weaponry, and you've got a killer combo!

Also, remember that those 1 facility "dot worlds" in your starting system can be used for space yards. I tend to go ahead and settle one or two and use them to build up a military while my homeworld creates colony ships. I do it that way because the new colony won't have the population capacity to successfully "seed" new colonies and it is a needless delay to route them from another yard into the homeworld. Also, colonies will be more useful early on than large fleets.

Those small worlds'll also be breeding more population, which you can always skim off to build up those juicier worlds as you find them. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

I agree with most things, but in addition I spend early research points on Stellar Harnessing. It gives you extra range by getting Solar Collectors and later extra move points by getting Solar Sails.

However, I personally DO divide research points evenly. My reason: I do a lot of upgrading of my ships and don't want to upgrade just 1 or 2 components. This way, I can upgrade 3,4, or 5 components at a time. I also want to be researching many areas at once. I do not experience the "lost research points" discussed earlier in the thread - I think that has to do with the fact that I "repeat" the research areas.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

I generally pump research points into the applied research field, until I get the second level of research facilities. Tech is such an important advantage in the middlegame that it's worth the initial loss of advantage. The first tech you choose to rsearch receives whatever bonus you picked initially, and choosing AR first makes a big difference in your research curve. The question is, can you hold out against the rest of the creepies till then? Well, CSM escorts can be cranked out pretty quickly, and you should also colonize like mad-- whoever has the biggest facility base in the middlegame will have the overwhleming advantage, since that player will be able to out-produce and research the others. If you have the initial jump in research, you can skew more of the facilities to production, which in turn allows you bigger fleets.

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If it floats and it don't say quack, sink it.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sessile:
I generally pump research points into the applied research field, until I get the second level of research facilities. Tech is such an important advantage in the middlegame that it's worth the initial loss of advantage. The first tech you choose to rsearch receives whatever bonus you picked initially, and choosing AR first makes a big difference in your research curve. The question is, can you hold out against the rest of the creepies till then? Well, CSM escorts can be cranked out pretty quickly, and you should also colonize like mad-- whoever has the biggest facility base in the middlegame will have the overwhleming advantage, since that player will be able to out-produce and research the others. If you have the initial jump in research, you can skew more of the facilities to production, which in turn allows you bigger fleets.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I like the idea of getting Research II early, will try next time.

Here's an example of a research sequence for discussion. This was in a Large Map (175 system) Low Tech start, one planet, Psychic Technology.

Ship (Frigate), Proj Wep, Physics, Psychic Studies, Industry, Proj Wep, Ship (Destroyer), Psychic Study, Proj Wep, computers, psychic weapons, Ship (Light Cruiser), Construction, Mines, Mill Sci, Psychic Tech, Psychic Wep, Astophysics, Stellar Harn, Shields, Point Defense, Sensor, combat support [2405.4]

Also picked up stuff from ruins that helped including one of the other colonization techs.

Had lots of fun with Psychic weapons later on in this game. With Alliance Subverter you can steal the enemy fleets as you attack them. Your fleet gets bigger, they get smaller and you use their ships against them. Nice. And you can send the interesting ones back to get analyzed to steal the tech as well.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

I have never yet built an exploration ship. I build exclusively colony ships and I explore with them. I don't build anythign else until I get destroyer hulls. The AI loves to attack my worlds, which I enjoy because the first thing I build on each is a Small Weapon Platform with capital ship missiles. That ends up costing the AI a ton of early production. I tend to get a massive early lead on even other humans with this technique. I vary this, depending on how many colonizable worlds are in my starting system, by sometimes building a base shipyard or two early on. If I've got several good worlds I can get three shipyards (one on my homeworld, and two in space) cranking out colony ships. I like to put my homeworld on emergency build and that gets me a colony ship per turn for the first year. It's an insurmountable lead against the AI and slow humans. It's risky against humans who are aggressive early on. Especially if they know I'm going to do it.

In research, I go for Point Defense Weapons, armor (unless I'm playing with Crystal or Organic Tech), and boarding parties. If I have a special technology, I'll pick it up early on, often in the first couple turns.

[This message has been edited by Nyx (edited 29 December 2000).]

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Well for me exploration ships are a must to find the best colonizable worlds. The colony ships are slow and have a much shorter range so they can't find good planets as easily expecially if you are worried that they will run out of supplies after the first 2 or 3 moves. I also build many colonizer ships but by the time they are built they can go directly to a colonizable world because I already know where they are. I usually build the colonizer ships at my homeworld and build exploration ships after the first couple of ships on those first few non-breathable worlds that you need to colonize at the begining of the game. In the early game there are not many turns that I am not building colonization ships on my homeworlds but I usually end up with many exploration ships anyway. Especially if I meet another race early.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

I also rely heavily on exploration ships in the early game. If there is a plum world in my starting system, then I'll build a colony ship for it, but otherwise, my first building project is usually an explorer. Then I'll start cranking out colony ships to fill the homesystem and to be ready to take advantage of any breathable or special-tech worlds my explorers find.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Well for me exploration ships are a must to find the best colonizable worlds. The colony ships are slow and have a much shorter range so they can't find good planets as easily expecially if you are worried that they will run out of supplies after the first 2 or 3 moves. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's not even remotely true. Colony ships move only one square per turn slower than a warship: 5 instead of 6. That's barely noticeable. And since they don't need to turn around and refuel (they're on a 1-way trip) they can go just under twice as far as a warship on an exploration mission (That extra engine holds 500 more supplies). Escorts/frigates can go through two warp points before they need to turn around (three if you give them extra supply pods instead of weapons or your refueling station is very close to a warp point). Colony ships get three or four before they are reduced to moving one space per turn. Except in an ancient galaxy, I'd always rather explore with colonies over escorts.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

My exploration ships always have supply storage thats why they are exploration ships. There is no room for that in Colonizers unless you drop the cargo unit which isn't a good idea. My frigates have 2 supply storages and my destroyers have 2 to 6. The first technology I research is cargo so by the time I build my first ship I have supply storage II at least. That gives them a much bigger range, almost as far as a colonizer can go one way 4500 supplies for 2 storage level II vs 2500 on a colonizer. I can go many systems away with my destroyers usually by the 2nd year at least (in my current game I got destroyers with supply storage III designed in 1.2 years low resources 3 planets to start) they have 9000 supplies with supply storage III. Yes the colonizers only have to go one way but they can be a waste of resources if they are going at 1 movement so I make sure they have a destination before they start on that one way trip.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

I do ship construction first and get frigates for exploration. With extra supplies they have 5500. They are also on a one way trip as one of 3 things happen to them. They run into another race and get destroyed. Which is also a very good reason not to use colony ships. Secondly they stop at a good planet and wait for a colony ship to show up making sure the planet stays empty. The planet then builds a supply and the scout continues on. Lastly the ship goes as far as it can go until it runs out of fuel. The colony ships themselves don't mean alot but the population does. It matters little to increase your colonization and to kill the production on your home planet by sucking off too much population. Colonies that you can't defend aren't much use either just gets you into early wars.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

The race I play is: Scientist Culture, +20% research, +20% mining, +20% construction, -10% maintenence costs.

No atmosphere, Rock/Ice

Myself, I immediately build 4 base space yards.

I research: Ship construction, stream weapons, armor, and propulsion. Set to repeat, no division of RP.

Each space yard builds a scout frigate, then goes into repeat colonyship construction. My main colony builds the four space yards, then builds 2-3 transports, then repeat colonyship production.

My colonyships only have 5 engines, no cargo for additional population. Adding the cargo would increase the number of turns nessecary to build a colonyship from one of my base space yards, so I left it out.

After this point, things adapt to my situation. I play like a high-tech warmonger.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Well, I only recently got the game, so I am not hard and fast on my early game strategies. Obviously, colonizer production is a major part of it. One strategy is to just flat out make colonizers with my homeworld and then set up shipyards and start building scouts with my new colonies. Sometimes I like to start off by building a few base spaceyards first, then put the homeworld into full colonizer production, while the bases make scouts, transports, and more colonizers. But because those bases are so expensive and slow, sometimes I just set the homeworld to produce a couple scouts, then put it into rush production for colonizers.
Either way, I always have to use scouts. For the very early game, if there are just no decent planets in my home system, I will use a colonizer or two to find decent planets. But they do not do long range scouting, that belongs to my dedicated scouts. Usually, I use an escort or frigate hull with the basics, 4 engines, and everything else filled up with supplies and a single DUC if its a frigate (its amazing how useful a level 2 or 3 DUC is against a neutral race, even in the middle of the game). Though they are not as fast as they could be, the fewer engines gives them 33% more range before they run out of supplies. My colony ships are pretty standard, though. The basics, 5 engines, and a cargo container. Of course, once I develop light cruisers, I immediately make a new colony ship design for longer range and higher cargo capacity.
I know it probably would not work well on smaller maps, but I play with 254 system maps and don't even bother making a military for quite a long time. When I see an alien race, then I start up limited military production, but I usually don't bother with a military at all until I have a significant number of colonies and systems.
The one thing I always do is to make nearly all of my early colonies research colonies. But, this has its problems because without resource colonies early enough, I tend to start running out of resources pretty quick.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

The very first thing I build will always be a bare-bone ship yard base. It's take 2 turns to complete.

Then I will build 1 colonizer on HW, and it takes 2 turns. And on the space yard, 1 scout ARMED with missles. That will take 4 turns. Sure, It'll have shorter range, but I can use it to get rid of some AI start-up colonies. (not as useful if played in a large map with fewer AIs)

Also, before the completion of the scout, I would concentrate research in missles and ship hulls. Since the scout can be "upgraded" during the production, so I will try to put at least 2 L2 missles on a frigate, maybe L3 depends on the game setting.

Then 2 turns later, the colony ship built on HW will go colonize any colonizable planets in the home system. (if none, I would use it as a scout) And the HW will then build a transport. The scout will take another 2 turns to be built on the space yard. The idea for the transport is to move some population off the HW ASAP, so more can be grown. Ideally, if another breathable planet is found in the home system, I will move 1000M pop to the new planet, that will give the new planet a 20% production bonus.

Anyway, 2 turns later, both the armed scout and transport will be built. The scout will ofc go do some "scouting". And the transport will go do some "transporting".

Then if there are more than one colonizable planets found in the home system, I would build more colony ships, but usually I would use the HW to build another scout (2 turns) to head for the other warp point. And the space yard will repeat building colony ships.

Depends on the number of warp points present in the home and nearby systems, a third scout might be built. Otherwise, I will repeat build colony ships also on the HW.

When running out of planets to colonize or bumping into hostile aliens, I would start building a couple larger armed ships. But, since the scouts themselves are armed, they might be enough early on.

Because of the shorter range for the armed scouts, they can only explore 2-3 systems before turning back. So when colonizing other systems, the 1st structure to be built will always be a resupply depot. I don't consider having a shorter range as a serious disadvantage, because you normally don't want to colonize planets too far away from you anyway. Those armed scouts will also ensure you have more empty systems to colonize later by taking out AI's start-ups.

Just my way of playing it...

Evan

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Just a little something extra I have found to be useful. Use the same general ideas from Evan, build a couple of scouts and then go w/colony ships. But the twist I add is, I start as a Gas Giant race. This gives you access to the bigger planets (usually 1 to 3 per system) so even those planets w/o your atmosphere will give 5 facility slots for Huge. Also, most AI races I encounter tend to be rock or ice types. 1st thing you do upon encountering them is to 1) ask for a trade treaty & 2) if the treaty is accepted on the next turn ask for a gift of their rock/ice colonization tech. I have never been turned down once the trade treaty has been given. I have however, had em cancel the treaty 1 turn after giving it - very weird. Do this and you soon open up all planet types to colonization MUCH earlier than you would if you tried to research the 2 other colony techs. Gives you a solid lead early in the game.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

I've delved into some more game modes and have decided on an alternate early strategy as a game-winner. Applied research is cool, but cooler still is to bomb another civ back to the stone age, who uses a different planet type (picking Gas for your race almost ensures this) and thus being able to colonize twice as many planets for free, after they surrender. Repeat for the third type of planet, and you're almost a lock to win the game, since the AI just doesn't have a game plan, really. Frigates with 1 CSM and supply maxed allow you to do this within the first twenty turns, if a civ is within 2 systems. I'm turning into a hella bloodthirsty player, it just works better.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sessile:
I've delved into some more game modes and have decided on an alternate early strategy as a game-winner. Applied research is cool, but cooler still is to bomb another civ back to the stone age, who uses a different planet type (picking Gas for your race almost ensures this) and thus being able to colonize twice as many planets for free, after they surrender. Repeat for the third type of planet, and you're almost a lock to win the game, since the AI just doesn't have a game plan, really. Frigates with 1 CSM and supply maxed allow you to do this within the first twenty turns, if a civ is within 2 systems. I'm turning into a hella bloodthirsty player, it just works better.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah... been there, done that.
A better approach IMO is to wait a few turns longer until you have researched Troops. You get the population and everything intact. After you have captured all their worlds except HW, try to attack their HW, but do not bomb the planet. Just try to blockade. As soon as you have done that, ask them to surrender. And they will. Now you have just doubled the size of your empire!

When they surrendered, they will give you all of their techs, including colonization of a different type of planets (if they are different).

Oh, try not to destroy too many of their ships (armed or unarmed), if you think you need them after they surrender. But if their ships tried to attack you, then disable them, but not destroy them.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

As an addition to this if they are indifferent to you or better if you blockade their homeworld and have a high enough score (less than is needed for surrender) you can get them to give you the planet as tribute. This doesn't work for many planets because they get angry with you for asking them to do this but you can get one or two this way. This can help you and hurt them and allow you to have a better chance to get them to surrender.

Note don't do this too often if ever if you want a more challenging game because very soon you will be very far in the lead with this strategy.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

1. Rock planet type (more to colonize). Gas planets fewer but larger and take more skill. Ice bad... Ice cold.... fewer Ice planets. Beginners don't choose None Atmosphere type, choose any other atmosphere type.

2. Set up race to build a colonizer on Homeworld in 2 turns. This may mean stripping out half the engines and the cargo hold (good for a local colony ship). You have to boost your races construction rate by ? (5 %to 10%?) oops.

3. Experienced players build 3 space stations with shipyards first, but I think 2 is easier to manage. When you do run short on resources you can mothball these stations for a while.

4. Colonize your system fast. The extra research, resource, and shipyards early on are an advantage. Green star planets are your atmoshpere type . Red star have different atmosphere and are domed, so the build space is limited.

5. I generally do not waste resources on escorts. I build small transports instead. Arm them with a missle and add 3 SAT launchers, 3 cargo, 1 supply, 5 engines etc... they are good for exploring, transport and SAT laying.

6. Ships are fragile early on. A few SATs for Worm Hole defense can kill or cause them to limp home. It's better than letting them concentrate forces.

7. Weapon platforms. Better some than none, don't be a easy target. Try mixing missles with direct fire weapons, and use the largest weapon mount you can.

8. Early research. Opinions differ but most would suggest: More than one project in que, rotate projects and do not spread points evenly.
Larger ships (friget on first turn, destroyer, light cruiser).
Depleted Uranium Cannon (DUC) to level 3.
Point Defense (PD) at least level 3, I prefer 4
I might start PD inbetween destroyer and LC. As you have to study Military Science before PD opens up.

9. Diplomacy: Avoid early wars, treaties are good bonuses. Hit back if attacked. Some AI races have different attitudes, so be cautious about colonizing their systems.

10. Bonuses:
Trade for ships and analyze them, its great for gaining expensive colonizing tech. Just might get some population in the bargin.
Trade for population that breaths a different atmosphere. Put them on their planet type, remove your pop from it, and that red star will turn green http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif giving many more build spaces.

-------------------------------------------------
Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Early Ships:
I design the following:
Colony ship for:
A: Short range / High Population for those nearby planets
3 Engines
2 Cargo
B: Short Range / Low Pop for when I need a Higher rate of build
3 engines
Nothing Else
C: Long Range / Faster Build
5 Engines
Nothing Else
D: Long Range / Higher Pop
5 Engines
1 Cargo Bay
For the most part I will add the cargo bay if it does not slow down the build time.
Designing so man different ships gives me a chance to compare cost and build times.
To Name so many differant sytles I use the Type, Speed, and number of Cargo Bays:
"Col Rock 3 CC" Rock Colony with 3 engines and 2 cargo bays. Makes it easy.

Transports
5 Engines
7 Sat Bays
These are given the “Capture Planet” Strategy so they can be used as Troop Ships.
They are used to:
Move population
Lay Satellites
Fill with population and Follow / lead colony ships to the target planet. Along the way they might check peripheral warp points if convenient.
Two turns before the planet is colonized it will fleet up with the colony ship to “re supply” as much as possible. Depending on the other strategic concerns it will
Explore the local warp points
Wait for the new colony to build a Supply Depot
Head back “home” to pick up more population / troops / sats or pick up population and join another out bound colony ship.
*I don’t put guns on mine because I feel it is unlikely it could win with one weapon so why waist space / cost. If I get caught in the open **I will try to run or duck into a storm / nebula.
I don’t use a Supply Bay because if it is that far out it is with a colony ship and can re supply when the new colony builds a Depot, (this is risky).

[ June 14, 2002, 20:44: Message edited by: The High Gryphin ]

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

First off, if you're boasting about how you tricked the AI into giving up that is really pathetic. Sure they arn't great but exploiting them isn't anything to brag about. Its your game though so enjoy that if you like it.

Back on topic. I really love organics, second is religious, both of these have really great bonus' of which the organics are very immeaditate and long term to an extent while the religious can kick fat *** later on as well as some sweet facilites early on. I put a premium on finding out what other players usually do with their .emp and tailor mine carefully.

Once your out in the game though it is really important to expand like crazy. however, dont' get so caught up in your drive to expand that you take on a fish bigger than you can concieveably land. ONLY fight wars that have a straight forward goal that can be accomplished in under one year or less. Anything longer (as i learned in MSG2 whiel going from 1 to 4) just wastes money and stifles your own growth.

Finally, and this is a hard question. What do you do with 200 top of the line ships and a ton of loyal allies? If everyone wants peace how do you go about using your ships?

If you ever fall behind in technology (which you should be working hard to stay abreast of) make a partnership with someone you have something in common with and get them to give you their tech, or research boarding parties and jump ahead that way, o and a 16% increase in your research pts can't hurt, neither can something similar in other areas. Research higher level facilites ifyou ever get stuck and can't expand, just increase your facilites. Hope i haven't bored anyone excessivly.

OT- this board has become much more active in the past few months no? at least since feb-mar times

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

as i learned in MSG2 whiel going from 1 to 4

Two questions...
1) Who are you on PBW?
2) When were you in 1st in MSG2?

I think your biggest problem is that the 1st place player makes excessive use of Monoliths. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif That, and the 1st and 2nd place players expand too quickly for their own good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

while i don't think i was ever 1 maybe 2 but im chocolatefro, and i am Zedron. I had a ton of ships, still do, and whiel the rest is confidential. Hope to meet you in the game again soon. Despite bad handling, and the regretable incident wiht me as game admin in diversify, your empire is doing well and now the whole galaxy is ganging up on me. We'll have to see what goes down now. Liga (doubt you ever met him) has a ton of org ships and is mopping up my poorly defended (and recently acquired from Ai surrenders) frontier and im getting ready to kill from all sides (he's italian and i hope he isn't reading this) but yeah...

Re: FAQ...First 50 turns
 

Well... be nice to the Vorlons, and they might send a picket fleet into the heart of your enemies.