OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

i have no how the us army gets officers, but it seems to me that the only sensible way to go about is to get them 'from the ranks'. throwing someone with little real expereince into a command position strikes me as foolish.

yes, i have been reading military sci-fi. the sos snippet is up on baen.com . and if you don't know what i mean, go here: http://bar.baen.com/WB/default.asp?a...d=31614&fid=37

[ February 12, 2004, 07:15: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

What about experience points for troops - perhaps planet facilities and a tech tree to support in the next patch training for troops. Perhaps each time they invade a planet - the home planet they came from gets experience points when they train troops in the future. You could get less EXP from invading poorly defended planets and more if youre troops manage to take a well defended planet ? or it could be put in as morale of home planet affects up to 10% troop performance in invading. Facilities to raise the morale of defending troops is an idea and also on board components that allow troops to train up to a certain EXP level. Not sure how to implement but discussion is there.

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

oh. right. shoulda put OT in the title. sorry. and that's a good idea.

[ February 12, 2004, 07:16: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

Heinlein was big on this topic. His comments on it in Starship Troopers are absolutely scathing. In the system he described in that book, all officers had to be selected from the ranks, and the idea of training and commissioning a civilian to be an officer was mocked to scorn.

Heinlein must have served under a Lt. Niedermeyer type at some point... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ February 12, 2004, 10:58: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

From the ranks works great in wars for replacements.... But I think that the power of the rank is within the Corporals to Seargents. ANd all the classifications within those ranks. Not to mention specialation.

Since were talking army.

The lifers work with the command and make sure things run smooth.

Now for officers they also go through the ranks just that they start at a higher rank after they pass their training.

Then the issue of NCO vs CO comes into play.

And the question is rased. A soldier is good working with a team of 4 or 5 other soldiers. How does this make this person able to run a company?
It is very democratic in its structure.

Or are you talking about.... So and so's dad is this guy so lets make him a major.

In wars these people get weeded out due to the nature of the beast. In peaceful times it takes a little longer. But it happens.

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

Yeah...

The de facto role of officers is generally to manage, plan, and direct.

The de facto role of enlisted is generall to execute.

And, it is often said that the warrant officers are what keep military organizations running smoothly, acting as the requisite link between those two rank structures. Without them, the whole thing might fall apart.

Personally, having met a lot of USMC and USN officers who both came up through the ranks and those who didn't I can't come up with any overarching statement as to their quality or lack thereof.

The only thing I think I could honestly say is that, IMHO, those who with aptitudes better suited to officer skillsets (managerial, motivational, ambition) tend to gravitate towards officer commissions.

I've met many extremely competent enlisted and officers of all ranks. but in both rank structures, I think it is true that, largely, the better ones get promoted and the crappier ones don't. Havign said that, I've met some very incompetent USMC Colonels and Staff Sergeants, and some very ineffective or dysfunctional Navy Admirals. In these cases, it largely comes down to personality (or lack thereof) rather than skill.

Just my two cents. I'm shutting up now.

Alarik

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Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You should read the Brotherhood of War series. It starts in WWII and follows the career of several military men and there families through the decades. Never boring, and always intertaining, a great read.

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

You also have to remember that the actual people who do the fighting are the minority in the military.

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

The army thrives with both types of officers. The experience of being an enlisted person is very valuable to an officer, but while this person is serving in the military, the "fresh" officer was getting a college education, which gives him/her skills that the "from the ranks" officer may not have. I think there is place for both types.

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

I'm just a conscript anselm now, but I got into the reserve officer program, so this fall I begin my training.
(It's a short Version for medical personel and I'll still be anselm when I'm finished but in a few years I'll start advancing in the ranks - liutenant - captain - major. )

It'll be fun! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif (But it will mean less SE4..... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif )

(And the wife isn't all that thrilled that I'll be away that much from home, leaving her alone with the kids.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif )

[ February 12, 2004, 18:47: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

I'm not gonna try to answer the question of how you get good officers in the real life miltary. Every possible scheme can be shown to produce the same sort of stinkers. No system is perfect, and humans who want to 'get ahead' will always find ways to cheat the system and get a rank they don't merit simply because they feel they 'deserve' it.

But as for the game, I think that troop experience should be handled exactly the way I have recommended that ship experience be handled for SE V. You have a global 'pool' of experience and it is averaged into your troops/ships. There can be an option to designate certain units as 'elite' and pay extra maintenance to keep them at a certain amount higher than your average experience level, but beyond that no modifications or single unit (ship) tracking. Experience comes from military academies and actual combat. Experience is lost when you decommission units (ships or troops) or lose them in combat. Simple, effective, understandable by the AI. And it makes your 'level of military readiness' a strategic resource much like it is in 'real life'.

It's slightly unrealistic in that various units will not be absolutely identical in experience in 'real life' but in practice they tend to be pretty close. This is because ships do not carry the exact same crew members for 10 years or more at a time (Star Trek not withstanding) and military units do not have the exact same members for 10 years or more at a time. People shift assignments constantly in the military, on purpose. They deliberately try to spread experience around to prevent the sort of disparities that some people would like to track in a 4X game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif So I'd very much like to see a simple pool of experience representing your number of trained/experienced personal and their level of experience rather than trying to track individual units.

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

that, actually, is a good idea.

i suppose if we're not going to make headway with an OT discusion, on-topic is always good.

[ February 12, 2004, 22:03: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Interesting enough, Heinlein was a Naval Officer. I'm not sure of his rank or when he served, but I do know that much about him. I haven't read Starship Troopers in about 25 years, and my copy is probably still at my mom's house somewhere. I'll have to get another copy and reread it sometime.

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

That could have been "Star General", the sci-fi Version of the "Panzer General" series.

Re: OT - here\'s an interesting military thought
 

I played a great game in the early 90's that I forgot the name to but I may still have buried in my archives at home.
It was a drop ship game that placed the player in control of developing armies to drop down on planets to conquer. I remember it having a system of officers that lead the armies into battle that earned experience, medals and modifiers for completing drops and conquering planets. I was a great strategy game that was simple but yet complex (like seiv). If I can locate the game it has many great ideas that could be added to SEV.