An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Well, since nobody else has done it I decided I needed to go into the AI_Anger files and describe how the various computer players now differ in what makes them angry.

All the analysis below is relative to Default_AI_Anger.txt. I think there are some variables that aren't shown there, as I have caused a race to go to war with me just by flying a scout through their space before I had a treaty with them (even though that race had "Per No Treaty Ship" set to 0). Also, having a system claimed by both you and them seems to cause anger, but that isn't shown either.

The things that show up in the files that make a default AI race angry (in order of how angry it makes them) are: being Mega Evil, demanding their surrender, declaring war, beating them in combat, refusing/breaking treaties, asking for gifts/tributes, surrendering (?), doing intelligence projects against them, refusing trades/gifts/tributes/demands, demanding that they remove ships/colonies, demanding that they leave planets, asking them to end wars or break treaties with others, losing to them in combat (!), and having planets they want. A combat ending in stalemate does not make them angrier, even though winning and losing both do, so if you want peace, go for the stalemate. The things that make them happy are: granting independence to colonies (?), accepting demands, accepting treaties, and giving gifts/tributes.

The most important field is "Regular Decrease", which determines how much that race's anger decreases every turn. The default is -3 (three points happier every turn). If this is set to -2, the race takes forever to forgive and forget and I call them an "angry race"--all such races have a "Minimum Anger" higher than 0, so that they are incapable of being Brotherly. If it's set at -4, the race puts up with a lot and I call them a "forgiving race". Also, if simply communicating with them in ANY way makes them angry, I call them "xenophobic". (The Sergetti went to war with me solely because I repeatedly asked for a non-aggresion pact.)

So here are the ways in which the various AI races differ from the default, in alphabetical order:

CueCappa, Eee, Phong, Praetorian, Toltayan, UkraTal: Forgiving race. Anger from combat is slightly lower than usual.

Abbidon, Drushocka, Norak, Sallega, Terran: Identical to default.

Cryslonite, Fazrah, Jraenar, Krill, Piundon, XiChung, Xiati: Angry race. No-treaty ships in their space make them angry. Anger from combat is about 50% higher. Anger from refusing treaties is doubled.

Amonkrie, Sergetti: Angry xenophobic race. No-treaty ships in their space make them furious. Anger from combat is doubled.

Here's hoping others find this information useful.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

This is great stuff. You might even consider to put it in txt file for d/l.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

I'm testing Anger and Politics AI files for Star Trek races (still Demo). Anger seems pretty straightforward, but Politics needs a lot of tuning to get the personalities right. I'm wondering whether anyone has gained any insights into the various settings. If you have any ideas or would like to help work on Federation, Ferengi, Cardassian, Romulan, Klingon, Borg, 8472, or Vulcan send me an E and I'll show you what I've got so far.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

UmberGryphon - this is great stuff. I have not had the time yet to do a comparative analysis, but what you said about the Amon'Krie makes a situation I had Last night with them make sense. Please take Daynarr's advice and copy it to a .txt file and post it in the download section (otherwise it well get lost within a few days).

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

I have spent a lot of time working on the very samething. I am no master programer, so my work is my work. However, if I find a system that works well for all the Star Trek Races, I will let you know.

Additionally, I know of another two guys who are also working on the samething. The race is on. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

I accept demands all the time and don't follow through. Mainly they ask me to break a treaty with their "...most hated enemy." I accept their demand in writing but don't break the treaty. They seem to stay brotherly alot longer than if you deny their demand. Seems like blatantly lying to them should produce more anger than refusing.

Do general Messages produce happiness?

-m

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mafia:

Do general Messages produce happiness?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

No. "Receive General Message" has straight zeros across the board. You could reduce anger with small gifts, though--even the xenophobes like gifts.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Would be cool to make a race that found gifts insulting and got made when you offered it to them.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Umber, I have already saved your post as txt file for myself. If you agree, I can post it in download section for you, so others can get it.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Daynarr:
Umber, I have already saved your post as txt file for myself. If you agree, I can post it in download section for you, so others can get it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When you talk about the "download section", exactly where are you referring to? The scenario/mod archive? Doesn't seem like it'd belong there, as it's neither a scenario nor a mod.

If you tell me where it should be placed for posterity, I'll do it myself.

I'm just glad that people are finding my research useful....

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Yeah, scenario/mod archive. That is the only place Moderators allow people to upload files (although it may seem that your file doesn't belog there).

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

mafia:

Yes, what you are experiencing is a problem that needs to be addressed IMO. There is NO enforcement of agreements etc...not even diplomatic penalties for reneging. IMO, if you agree to something, you should be bound to it or else face SEVERE penalties from the other races as someone who cannot be trusted.

The same problem also occurs if you simply dont respond at all. There is no penalty assessed for that but a rather hefty one for a 'refusal'.

Note that this is something known to MM (or at least the playtesters) so I hope it will be addressed in the next patch. For now, I just make sure I: 1) always respond to all the enemy Messages with either a definate 'Yes' or 'No' answer and 2) I always honor all agreements made. If I SAY I'm breaking a Treaty, I do it...otherwise I tell them to go bugger off.

Its a MUCH better game when you enforce these rules as well. The AI actually seems to come to life a bit more and definately is far more hostile when its demands are continuously rebuffed. I HIGHLY recommend playing this way as so as not to exploit another weakness in the AI.

Talenn

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

You can change the anger setting for 'receive general message' to anything you want. I wish there was a setting for 'receive NO response'.

My Ferengi race gets insulted if you refuse a gift, but MAD if you accept it!

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Well, here's Version 1.1 of AI_Analysis.txt, which now covers the Politics and Settings files in addition to its specialty, the Anger files. Have a happy the-days-are-now-getting-longer-in-the-northern-hemisphere celebration of your choice. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

---

Well, since nobody else has done it I decided I needed to go into the various AI behavior files and describe how the various computer players now differ.

Most of the analysis below is of the AI_Anger files, and is relative to Default_AI_Anger.txt. I think there are some variables that aren't shown there, as I have caused a race to go to war with me just by flying a scout through their space before I had a treaty with them (even though that race had "Per No Treaty Ship" set to 0). Also, having a system claimed by both you and them seems to cause anger, but that isn't shown either.

The things that show up in the files that make a default AI race angry (in order of how angry it makes them) are: being Mega Evil, demanding their surrender, declaring war, beating them in combat, refusing/breaking treaties, asking for gifts/tributes, surrendering (?), doing intelligence projects against them, refusing trades/gifts/tributes/demands, demanding that they remove ships/colonies, demanding that they leave planets, asking them to end wars or break treaties with others, losing to them in combat (!), and having planets they want. A combat ending in stalemate does not make them angrier, even though winning and losing both do, so if you want peace, go for the stalemate. The things that make them happy are: granting independence to colonies (?), accepting demands, accepting treaties, and giving gifts/tributes.

In addition to the AI_Anger files, there are also some interesting settings in the AI_Settings and AI_Politics files. Outside of the two Xenophobic races, the AI_Politics files are more or less identical, so I'll discuss them mostly in general terms. Note: when I say "stronger" or "weaker", I am referring to the Score as it is available from a button on the Diplomacy screen.

When an AI is considering whether or not they will accept/propose/break a treaty, they consider: how happy they are with the other player, how big a treaty it is (they practically have to be Brotherly to accept a Partnership, but they'll accept a Trade Alliance at a much lower level), how many wars they're currently in, and whether the other player is significantly stronger or weaker than them (they are much more likely to accept treaties from those with 150% their score, and much less likely to accept treaties from those at half their score). On top of all that, they are slightly more likely to accept/propose treaties in the first 50 turns.

If you have 150% of a computer player's score, you can get them to say they'll obey most of your requests/demands--but as others have noted, telling them to get their ships out of a system (for example) doesn't usually work even if they say they're leaving. If you have six times their score, you can make them a Protectorate; if you have eight times their score, you can Subjugate them; if you have ten times their score and are not allied with them, you can get them to Surrender.

The two fields that vary the most between one AI_Setting file and another are "Percentage of Allied Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger" and "Percentage of Enemy Planets to consider as Attack Locations for Anger". Those are just really long to type, so from here on out I refer to a planet that is "considered as an Attack Location for Anger" as a `coveted' planet. Don't ask me exactly what it means for an AI to covet a planet; you now know as much as I do about it. Presumably the AIs get angrier with you the more of your planets they covet.

If a race is Forgiving, they get less angry 4 steps per turn, anger from combat is slightly lower than normal, they wait 12 turns from the Last war before even considering a friendly treaty, and they do not covet enemy planets.

If a race is Neutral, they get less angry 3 steps per turn, they wait 15 turns from the Last war before even considering a friendly treaty, and they covet 10% of enemy planets.

If a race is Angry, they get less angry 2 steps per turn, no-treaty ships make them angry, anger from combat is about 50% higher, anger from refusing treaties is doubled, they wait 20 turns from the Last war before even considering a friendly treaty, and they covet 20% of enemy planets unless otherwise stated.

However, if an Angry race is also Xenophobic, they only covet 10% of enemy planets (I guess it's lower 'cause they think the planets have been contaminated by those unholy aliens?), no-treaty ships make them furious, and anger from combat is doubled. Not only do Xenophobic races hate being communicated with in almost any way, but they need to be happier with you to accept treaties, they are one-third as likely to propose treaties as the other races, you need to have FIFTY TIMES their score before they will surrender, and they are 50% to 300% harder to intimidate with all other threats and demands.

Abbidon: Neutral race. Covets 25% of allied planets.

Amonkrie: Angry xenophobic race. Covets 20% of allied planets.

Cryslonite: Angry race. Covets 30% of allied planets.

CueCappa: Forgiving race. Covets 10% of allied planets.

Drushocka: Neutral race. Covets 30% of allied planets.

Eee: Forgiving race. Covets NO allied planets.

Fazrah: Angry race. Covets 30% of allied planets.

Jraenar: Angry race. Covets 30% of allied planets.

Krill: Angry race. Covets 40% of allied planets.

Norak: Neutral race. Covets 20% of allied planets.

Phong: Forgiving race. Covets NO allied planets.

Piundon: Angry race. Covets 30% of allied planets.

Praetorian: Forgiving race. Covets NO allied planets.

Sallega: Neutral race. Covets 20% of allied planets.

Sergetti: Angry xenophobic race. Covets 20% of allied planets.

Terran: Neutral race. Covets 25% of allied planets.

Toltayan: Forgiving race. Covets NO allied planets.

UkraTal: Forgiving race. Covets 10% of allied planets.

XiChung: Angry race. Covets 40% of allied and enemy planets.

Xiati: Angry race. Covets 50% of allied planets and 10% of enemy planets.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Talenn:
mafia:

Yes, what you are experiencing is a problem that needs to be addressed IMO. There is NO enforcement of agreements etc...not even diplomatic penalties for reneging. IMO, if you agree to something, you should be bound to it or else face SEVERE penalties from the other races as someone who cannot be trusted.

The same problem also occurs if you simply dont respond at all. There is no penalty assessed for that but a rather hefty one for a 'refusal'.

Note that this is something known to MM (or at least the playtesters) so I hope it will be addressed in the next patch. For now, I just make sure I: 1) always respond to all the enemy Messages with either a definate 'Yes' or 'No' answer and 2) I always honor all agreements made. If I SAY I'm breaking a Treaty, I do it...otherwise I tell them to go bugger off.

Its a MUCH better game when you enforce these rules as well. The AI actually seems to come to life a bit more and definately is far more hostile when its demands are continuously rebuffed. I HIGHLY recommend playing this way as so as not to exploit another weakness in the AI.

Talenn<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's funny, the Eee literally went to war against me for simply breaking a treaty... that's not a penalty? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif It took them a long time to cool down, too, because they kept sending ships into my minefields and getting a ship destroyed is an increase in anger even though it's not technically a "battle" as far as I can tell. Also, there does seem to be a negative reaction to no answer for a treaty request. It's just less than the penalty for an outright refusal.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Baron:

Oh if you break treaties etc there is DEFINATELY a penalty. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif What I was refering to was when Race 'x' comes and tells you to break a treaty with Race 'y'. You agree to do so, but then dont actually go through and break the treaty. A few turns late, Race 'X' simply asks again. And the REALLY twisted thing is you get the GOOD modifier for 'agree with demand'. That is a definately problem IMO. Not only is there no penalty for reneging on a deal, there is a BENEFIT.

Now perhaps I am reading the file incorrectly (its a bit cryptic at times), but from what it appears and from game experience, thats the way it works out. And I have yet to see an AI go more unfriendly from simply ignoring their requests. If you refuse a Treaty or request directly you can see their happiness decrease instantly next turn. If you simply dont respond to the message, there is usually little or no change...although once in a while the 'default decrease/turn' kicks in and their happiness with you INCREASE. Its very odd.

Talenn

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Since I play a bloodthirsty race usually I don't see this that often but in one game I made a non-aggression treaty with one race because I didn't want to fight a three front war in the early turns. I tried to get that AI to hate me after I took care of the immediate threats. I asked him to give me his homeworld a couple of times and asked him to stop fighting a race we were both at war with and after all of this it was only indifferent to me. I could have broken the treaty to make him angry but I hate to break treaties. I didn't finish that game because I made a few mods to the files and wanted to try them out but I will try that again someday to see what it would take to really anger them.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

A note on AI coveting your planets: they only covet a percentage of the planets they KNOW about. Which is why you have to be careful with treaties: upon forming a Partnership treaty, both sides exchange system maps. Then a coveting race will see how many planets you really have and immediately get angry at you. How angry they get is specified in the file, and within 2 turns of forming a Partnership you may find yourself at war with an empire that knows EXACTLY where all your planets, resupply, spaceports, shipyards, etc. are. So when your Military ally offers a Partnership, sometimes a polite 'no-thank-you' is best!

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Well, someone just asked about something this topic covers, so I'm "bumping" it to the top so that anyone who missed it the first time can read it.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Question here as all those numbers make my head hurt http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/tongue.gif

What settings would I need to change to make a bloodthirsty, warrior race quick to anger?



[This message has been edited by pathfinder (edited 15 January 2001).]

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

I would start in the AI_politics.txt file. Eliminate or make very unlikely that it would make treaties and increase the anger it feels when it sees ships from other empires. Make it send Messages about infringing on its space earlier and go to war faster.

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pathfinder:
What settings would I need to change to make a bloodthirsty, warrior race quick to anger?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you don't want to play with the numbers, I suggest you just rename the XiChung files for use with your new bloodthirsty race. If the XiChung aren't angry enough for you... I suppose I'd change "Regular Decrease" in the AI_Anger.txt file from -2 to -1 (although such an AI would almost certainly be murderously angry with every other empire they'd ever met, which wouldn't necessarily be good for their long-term survival).

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

Or how about setting natural decrease to 5 or more but the anger amount for everything making them angry incredibly high? That would cause them to be completely choleric. And pretty erratic too. NO nice neighbours. I'll have to try that!

Re: An analysis of the AI_Anger files in 1.19
 

hehe, guess what brachyura means: crab, so my race is the brachyura, the crabby race http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

So after in a short look, they are using fighters EARLY and shoot first, ask questions later. Also very unresponsive to requests/demands from me (no communications from them at all in response).

[This message has been edited by pathfinder (edited 16 January 2001).]