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SE IV The End Of An Era.
With this "Last" patch for SEIV I fear it marks the end of an era and the beginning of a new one.
We have nothing else to look forward to from Malfador in way of support for Space Empires IV and the long journey toward the release of Space Empires V has begun. I have been playing Space Empires IV since its demo release back in August 2000 and it is argueably the most played game on my PC and in the history of my PC gaming life. I love this game for many reasons, most are well known and equal to many of yours. The game has taken on a life of its own, a self feeding monster that is a highly addictive, life sucking, time stealing black hole of biblical proportions. A warning label should come with this game, and indeed with Space Empires V that warns buyers of its addicitive life alterning properties. I can't help but feel a little sad in knowning that we have crossed the top of the mountain and are now on our way down the back slop. It has been a great journey and one that I am forever thankful for haven taken. I own Aaron and Shrapnel a big thank you for SEIV and the support for this communitee. Without Aaron we would not have this great game. (And the beta testers too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ). Without Shrapnels support we would not have these forums, and the community that now calls this place its home page. There is still time for those of you who have not yet purchased SEIV Gold. The time is right for you now, buy this game and enjoy all that it has to offer. Don't let this jem slip through your fingers. You have no idea what you are missing. The rest of us know what we will be missing as the game slowly runs it course and its little brother comes alive. This game is a dream come to life, and I sincerely doubt that it will ever be equaled, except by SE V or later. [ February 27, 2004, 17:21: Message edited by: Atrocities ] |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I can second that. I remember finding a CD-ROM many years ago that had a demo for a game called Space Empires II. Since then, the only other games I've really ever played has been SEIII, SEIV, and Star Fury.
I remember similar sentiments when SEIII was nearing the end of it's run. Then, with SEIV came PBW and all was forgiven. Thanks Aaron. Love the game more than you know. |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I second (third...) the SE4 being a neat game part.
I do rather dislike the sentiment "the end of a game etc." Games don't really end or die. Pong still exists. People still play pre-Gold, SE3, Nethack, Atari 2600 games, and so on. I know that's not what you meant, but I dislike the language and sentiment of "game X is dead (or has ended) because there it's not the latest thing, patches probably won't be released for it, or there aren't as many players for it as there used to be." At least the remaining players will be interested in the merits rather than in the "latest thing" hype, and will tend not to be thoughts about when "the end" of the game will be. Also, looking at Star Fury, I'm not so sure I'll be thrilled with SE5. PvK [ February 27, 2004, 16:49: Message edited by: PvK ] |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
PVK the game is far from dead. In fact I do not believe that was at all what I was emplying. However, if that is how you read it, then I do apologize for it.
What I thought I was saying was that every game has a peek point that when it has been crossed the game slowly begins to loose momentum. Fewer and fewer people play it with few mods, ship sets, and other being released for it. The game has crossed that peek now with this final patch. Malfador is not going to release another patch for the game and will now focus upon developing SE V. That to me is a sign that the game has peeked. As long as people play SE IV, the game will live on. Hell people still play Tribes, in fact the disk for that game cost more than they did new, and you have to ask yourself why? The answer is simple, like seiv, the game peeked then went down the hill into the shadow of its sequal Tribes 2. The game was, is, one of the greates games ever made IMHO, (Tribes 1 that is) and its sequal Tribes 2 is equally ledgendary. Space Empires III and IV are both great games with SEIV's peek being far higher than III's. Space Empire V's peek will be even higher. I think of it as a road over the moutain to a much larger moutain. The moutains will always be there, but once you have crossed them, all you have to look forward to are more moutains or another trip over the same moutains. |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
My only real concern (and I think it's what you're alluding to here also) is that the addition of a radically different/advanced graphics engine to the tactical combat of SEV will "break" it. But I'm one of those people who would like to get MOO2 style graphics for tac combat, and stop there. I am just afraid that a totally different, 3d, etc... tac combat engine will be practically unmoddable, full of video bugs, slow the game down, etc...
On the other hand, IF it could be pulled off without all that, then, frankly, that would be amazing. I guess I just prefer solid functionality/gameplay first, then flash second. No reason SEV can't have both...I hope. thanks, Alarik Quote:
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I changed the name of the thread from Beginning of the end to End of an era.
I think it better fits but says the same thing. |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
How exactly do you do that? I've wanted to change the titles of threads I have started in the past, but could not figure out how.
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I wouldn't be worried if I were you. Space Empires has a very solid foundation. (Like Chess) And even though the game will have some 3D elements, it's not going to kill the gameplay.
Using Chess as an example, playing a 2D computer Version is fun, Playing a 3D computer Version is equally as fun, but can be more pleasing and have a more natural feel. I think the same will be true of SE:V Remember, Aaron got lots of feedback and suggestions for the Last SE:IV patch, and a ton of new suggestions for SE:V. We all know that he aims to please, so you can expect many of your suggestions to make their way into SE:V. SE:IV was and Is still a great game. What makes the game great is you, the fan base. The Passion you all bring to the game is what keeps it alive. I believe that SE:V will simply give you more fuel to feed your passion and keep Space Empires alive and well for many many years to come. I for one am glad to be a part of this community. This is a great place to be, good people, good game, good fun to be had by all. Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif |
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
David, well said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif You inspire me you know. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I don't have your history with this game, Atrocities, but I share your thoughts on this game. It's a fluke that I had even heard of it, but I'm glad I decided to buy it after I checked out the demo. But I don't things are going to be as bleak as you're making them out to be. We got maybe up to 2 years before SEV comes out, and that's 2 years of more mods and race sets to look forward to. Sure, the beta testers may know what the new game will include, but for us average joes, we'll be playing along with whatever comes out until then. It's the fans, after all, who make the game what it is now.
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
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PvK |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif The game will live on until the end of time itself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif And I am damn proud to have been a small part of it.
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
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People live for whats just over the horizon and I for one feel that the road that leads there is the same road that leads to the next horizon and the next new thing. No no, SE IV has a bright and enjoyable future yet. The game is still young and still very popular. The sad thing is, and I do mean this, is that people have not yet discovered it. That is the true gloomy thing if you think about it. Here we are, enjoying this game while others out there are still playing Stars without any knowledge that SEIV is out there. Or worse, they are playing MOO3 thinking that there is no alternative to it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Now that is indeed sad. [ February 27, 2004, 18:39: Message edited by: Atrocities ] |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
Let's just hope that SE5 does not drive away half of the Online SE4 community like SE4 drove away half of the Online SE3 community... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
Some of the SE3 veterans did not care for SE4 due to changes in the way construction worked, or combat, etc. And then I think there was all sorts of disputes between SE4 fans and SE3 fans and so on...but I wasn't really involved too much during those days so I can't speak much about it.
I think SE5 is going to go much better since there will be a lot more fan input in the game compared to the SE3-SE4 transitition. |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
My only gripe in the change from SE3 to SE4 was research. I still prefer SE3-style research. Though SE4-style kind of grew on me.
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
Old games dont die, they just fade away.
Heres to the community that made the game worth coming back to for four years, and that will keep me coming back until SE5. Cheers. |
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Thier Loss. |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I think Aaron and malfador realize that one of,if not the biggest draw to SEIV is it's modability.Therefore i really don't think they'd do too much to detract from that.even if they go heavy 3D I believe the game can still be very modable.Look at games like Civ3,a great deal of it's mods have to be done with 3D rendered units and such,yet it has a very large fan base contributing mods all the time.I believe just as with the conVersion from SEIII to SEIV they'll keep true to many of the elements while improving on others.They won't please everybody,but the vast majority will still love it and continue to play with the enthusiasm that has been a staple of the game and these forums.
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I have not played Civ III in sometime. Has it improved at all? What mods would you recommend?
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I dont think that a lot of SE3 players has abandoned the series after SE4 release. The most players had complaints about some good SE3 game mechanics which changed in SE4, but nonetheless played it like hell. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
In SE4 I missed always the excellent construction system of SE3. I also dont like that fighters in SE4 are hardcoded to be able travelling in-system. (this should be rather an option for special long range fighters, while the standard fighter should be carrier or planet based) But these are just minor gripes. I dont think that the differences from SE3 to SE4 are fundamental. But I am not so sure that there is no fundamental difference between SE4 and SE5. I cannot believe that it is easy for a normal user to construct 3D shipsets. Also I am VERY sceptical about the real time tactical combat engine. This is a big change to the classical SE approach to this matter. Many traditional turn based gamers will leave the fanbase because of this. (maybe me included) And because of a lot of newcomers which are attracted by realtime games the whole structure of the SE-fanbase will change. For us all I hope that MM has learned something about the MOO3 desaster. KlausD |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
It will still be turn based.
Have you seen the "Combat mission" game series. |
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I just couldn't ;et it slide... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif |
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Just as games change and adapt with the times so must us fans http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
ruatha,
I know the combat mission series. (although I did not like it very much, its too 3D for my taste) Buts its alot better than a true real time combat engine, so I would not hesitate to buy the game. thanks for the info. klausD |
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
Compared to Civ 2 Gold or Civ 2 ToT, the original release of Civ 3 was a joke. Hacked out multiplayer, modding was really hard to do (still rather hard to do, no convenient text files to edit http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif ), combat is greatly screwed up in Civ 3 compared to how it was in Civ 2, lack of a scenario folder until one of the expansions, absurdity of how the resource system is set up (didn't find any iron or gunpowder? Too bad, you are screwed), those stupid cultural victories ruining otherwise good games, lack of the ability to use 4 maps in one game for different planets or different layers of a planet (or other ideas), lack of an events system, lack of most of the cool abilities added in Civ 2 ToT, and so on. Certainly, it has a few nice features, but they are far outweighed by the lack of the ones they cut out and the fact that you must spend a huge sum of money to buy the game and both expansions, even though there is really nothing new added in the expansions that was not in the Civ 2 expansions. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
Well,looking at it that way.You're right,but unfortunatly that happens all too often when a game becomes popular.They lose sight of what made the game good to begin with and care less about the fan base that got them to where they are.
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who has time for real time games ????
would kill the long games .... |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
How so? Combat would still be executed by the computer for MP games... it is not as if the entire game would be real time, or as if the combat would require the players to execute it manually.
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
Hand grenade thrown in 'cuz I've been drinking:
name a real time game that hasn't sucked? Quote:
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
That would not be very productive. I forget their titles, but there have been TBS games that used real time combat in the past that worked out well. BOTF had real time combat, and it worked decently. Too bad the game had no custom ship design.
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Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
The Combat Mission series uses real-time to execute the turns; otherwise it plays like any other turn based game.
Real-time combat in SE5 would change -nothing- for PBW games since the computer runs the combat anyway. |
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PvK |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
[ March 01, 2004, 04:22: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
A thought occured to me while reading this topic...
Something that I really think should be concidered for SEV is a converter option, or at least a compatability for SEIV mods so that all of these wonderful works of art we call mods could be added to SEV! Obviously, there would be some vast differences, but... Well, don't really have a but... Just thought it might be worth mentioning http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I don't often weigh in on such matters, but:
SE:V needs to move to real-time resolution for combat. It is simply the best way to even out battles. Right now in SE:IV, so much is dependent on who has firing initiative etc, that battles are almost always lopsided - even between equally matched opponents. As Phoenix-D mentioned, this is no problem for PBW type games, as all the battle is handled automatically already. "Tactical Combat" if desired for single player could be more interactive, with the user able to define targets and strategies for their ships during combat (ofc, with a handy pause option to reduce possible clickiness) if they wanted. What is more important is that the engine for combat is done well, so that ships will obey their strategies and such, while avoiding the ills of unintended collisions and run at such a "processing" level not to make the game requirements too high. |
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There are pros and cons to turn-based and real-time designs. I can think of good designs for either that I'd prefer to SE4, but SE4 1.91 is quite good. I'll wait and see what Malfador comes up with for SE5 rather than speculating.
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to Imp Fyron:
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We have a totally different approach to strategy games. (mine is the more traditional because of my age, I guess) buts its always good to know what others think about the matter. to PvK Quote:
bye KlausD |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
The "Combat Mission-like" design suggestion would be that you have turn-based orders, between periods of real-time action resolution where there is no control. That way there is no advantage to clicking skills, and you get advantages of synchronization of movements, and can do away with artefacts like we see in SE4, where there are big stupid side-effects like ships being able to move in, fire, and move out of range, preventing return fire; or ram a faster ship because it "wasn't their turn" etc.
However there are also clever turn-based mechanics to avoid such problems (which Malfador hasn't found yet by Version SE4 Gold 1.91), and it's of course possible to still have dumb problems with a real-time system (see collisions and point defense in Star Fury, for examples). Combat Mission is an excellent example of that stye of play. I like it, but there are weaknesses even in such a well-done rendition. One is it relies on an extremely good tactical AI, which Combat Mission has but SE and SF don't. Another is the time and thought it can take to pre-plan maneuvers, and the lack of control during action. An issue with 3D views is the usual lack of good perspectives on the whole field of action at once. I dunno. The design issues are very numerous. Whatever Malfador does for SE5 1.0, it won't please every SE4 fan, since some of us want 3D or real-time, and others would prefer 2D or turn-based, or some combination. PvK |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I actually read a review by some dumbarse who thought Masters Of Orion 3 was a far superior game to Space Empires IV.
No kidding. I posted a response to his review that pointed out the fact that nearly everyone who bought MOO3 hated the game and bought either, and in some cases both, SE IV and GalCiv. I went back to read his response and the thread had been deleted. Go figure, guess some people just need to PLAY THE GAME before they review it. I fail to understand why the 4 x community sticks to the notion that SE IV is a bad game when in fact it is the reigning king of 4 X and has been since 2000. I guess these MOO fanatics just can not grasp the concept that SEIV is not only an older game, but it was better than MOO3. Sure GalCiv is a great game, but it is not as fun over the long term as SEIV. How many of you still play GalCiv? I like a lot of what they did for the interface and graphis of GalCiv, and I do hope that Aaron has taken note of this as well and plans to incorp simular things into SE V. I especially like the scenes when you colonize a planet and find things from primitive life to advanced life and have the option of enslaving them, or giving them rights and feedoms and how doing so effects your races ability to influance other races. No, SEIV is king of the 4 X moutain, and GalCiv is the Queen. Nuff said I hope. |
Re: SE IV The End Of An Era.
I downloaded, installed and played the demo of GalCiv and I was not at all impressed. It played like someone made a turn based arcade game. (think pac man one turn at a time) I would not call GalCiv the Queen to SE:IV's kingdom, it's an In-Law at best.
But hey, I've seen oogles of Ads promoting GalCiv, and even though it's not as good as SE:IV I bet about 1000 times the number of people have heard of it. But I digress, I already *****ed a bit about this in another thread. Nuf Said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif |
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