Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

I like to play a somewhat defensive game. I tend to give my race 2000 points and the other races 5000, with lots of AI bonuses. This means they are fielding fleets of ships while I am still building up.

So, I'm constantly looking for ways to defend my warp points.

Mines rock. I can quickly get most contested warp points up to 100 mines each, even early on. But as time goes on, they start to wear that down and I want to have something else there to defend the warp point.

So, I've been trying to use Satellites. Last night, a BB came through, wiped out the Last of my mines and I fired my 100 satellites (med sat weapon mount, with 2 heavy DUAC in each satellite!! so 200 heavy DUAC!) and all they did was plink his shields a little because they were all stacked on one side of the warp point and then the BB ran away. Ugh. For all the effort it took to get 100 satellites at a warp point, that was a pretty miserable showing.

I did notice he had ecm and my satellites did not have the bonus to hit computer (forgot name). But man, having to replace 100 satellites is a lot of work.....

I tried using missles on satellites, but you HAVE to fire all 100 missles at only one target. What a waste! By the time you can fire again, they enemy always moves away.

Am I missing something? Does anyone have a killer satellite design? tactic? idea?

I was thinking, what if I put a starbase with the satellites? Would the AI attempt to fight the starbase or run away from that as well?

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

First of all, you need to add at least combat sensors to satellites if you want to hit anything and ECM to decrease the chances your satellites are going to be hit. Maybe a bit of armor/shields might help make them Last longer as well.

It also seems your opponent used hit and run tactics - quite effective against a static defense like satellites.

However, I'm sure if you had some sensors on board - they would have taken out the ship fairly easily.

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

One single sat with the sensers its enough for the whole wolf-pack, right?

I modified my Version of the Proportions mod to hold 1000 mines/sats per sector, so I only use mines. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

In heavely contested areas I send a shipyard ship to build an starbase fighter-carrier, because since the AI doesn't use the fighters strategically I consider cheating to just place a fighter group hovering over the warp point.

Just make sure your base can launch all fighters on the first turn, just in case it gets blown out with the first enemy broadside. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I also build an starbase full of guns with the "Massive Base Mount", which packs quite a punch. (don't forget the multiple tracking component)

Satellites I use only as a Last fill in, because they pay no maintenance, while in Proportions an starbase full of Massive Mounts can bankrupt an small empire. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Finally, there is always the evil human trick of closing the warp point, but I think that would be an exploit when playing against the AI.

I have a question though, would a sat packing only armor protect the whole sat group? What about packing only shields?

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This is a blatant cheating http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif All proportions AI were coded with the assumptions of 100 mines per sector and physically can not build minesweepers for your settings.

new patch improves missiles destribution and 100 missile satellites can now kill a lot of ships now !!

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

There is another problem with satellites: even if you put Combat Sensors (and you have to), they will become less and less able to hit the enemy ships as technology is more and more available. In fact, a ship with ECM III, Stealth Armor III and Scattering Armor III has a -90% chance to be hit, and -130% if you take into account ship and fleet training up to 20%.

On the other hand, Satellites cannot be trained unless you are lucky enough to have a planet sitting on the wormhole or unless you have system wide fleet training facilities. So it means they only have Combat Sensors III to increase their chances to hit, so in the end they have a mere 35% chance to hit at point blank. Once the enemy ship is at range 4 or farther, this chance is only of 1%, unless you happen to have the Talisman. The enemy ship will still have a good chance of hitting you though, as if your ships only have ECM III, the enemy ship will have a 99% chance to hit you at range 4. (Satellites do not have any in-built bonus to defence, unlike drones or fighters)

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

Just mod a component to give a combat bonus for satellites. Or in the vehicle size file give them a 80% defense bonus or something.

[ March 01, 2004, 15:14: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">???? Does this work in strategic mode battles or am I better off with Missle satellites letting them handle combat automatically?

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, but then deplying mines would be pointless since it would be easily counteracted by minesweepers.

The point of 1000 mines its that you don't know how many the AI have deployed when you are on the attack. (Assuming the AI will deploy more than 100 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif )

Its way too easy to build 3 medium transport with 15 level-5 minesweeper components a piece.

I'll check if the AI its building more than 100 per sector.
It will be a lot of fun when your safely constructed fleet prepared to sweep 100 mines warps into a minfield with 180 mines. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I don't like predictability, that's why I eliminated the 100 limit, but you have a point about the AI files, so I'll play with the in-house rule of deploying only 100 mines per sector, but I think I'll leave the AI with the 1000 limit, unless you convince me otherwise. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

The question now though, its how will the AI behave when facing other AIs. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ March 01, 2004, 15:42: Message edited by: SB ]

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How exactly does it works now?
What's missile distribution?

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

Check out this old thread:

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=23;t=005111

The Talisman really helps SATs.
Engine damage weapons were very effective until a patch removed the shield piercing ability.

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually, satellites can't be trained at all. Nor can fighters or drones.

Missile sats are often worthwhile, especially in Proportions. Combine them with fighter defences to help overwhelm enemy PD.

I build lots of sats: As has been pointed out before- they cost no maintenance and (once launched) no cargo space, so if your storage is maxed out and you have resources going to waste and you have a spare build queue then there's no reason whatsoever not to build them. Even if they don't hit anything, at the very least they will soak up a few rounds of enemy fire.

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

I should have added I spoke of fleet training and not ship training. However, while you can have a fleet of fighters, you cannot have a fleet of satellites contrary to what I thought. (Nor of drones for this matter) So only fighters can go to a fleet and not the other units. *Puts back dunce's cap on his head and sits in the corner*

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

SB - if you like proportions then come join our proportions PBW game. we curently have 4 emprorless empires.
see this thread:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...;f=23;t=011021

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, but I don't have even the slightest idea of how PBW works.
Also, I have modified my Version of Proportions, is this relevant for PBW?

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

Personally I think the problem is in relying on just a stack of sats to defend a WP...bad idea IMO. They don't move and really aren't very viable (by themselves) except in early games. You saw how easy one BB knocked 'em off....

In combination with a base or two, now that's another story entirely. I generally pick my strategic WP's carefully (chokepoints, etc.) and defend those with bases, units, ships, etc. - more than just one type of vehicle.

I agree with using 'em and they can be built anywhere, no maintenance, etc. but just don't rely on 'em for primary / only defence. They're just units after all.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, but I don't have even the slightest idea of how PBW works.
Also, I have modified my Version of Proportions, is this relevant for PBW? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ohhh, PBW!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

You've gotta try it!!!

You just register and join any game.
Then if you want to the new turns will be mailed to you, or you can download them from the site.
You play when you have time (Different time lengths for different games; 12-96 hours) and then either upload at the site or mail in your turn.

It's so easy! and much more fun than playing the AI, you can actually do some serious diplomacy if you want to, or just kill em all.

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You'd want to install the right Version of Proportions for the PBW game, to a different subdirectory. (That particular game uses Proportions 2.5.2.2). There is a mod-picker program which is very helpful for using multiple mods.

PvK

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

I use weapon killers on sats for my WP defense. Give them as much to-hit bonus as possible. I've found that, since defenders fire first, I'm able to at least knock out some weapons in the first volley. Doesn't remove the threat, but does make clean-up easier. Launch some fighters or drones and finish them off. Not the best option, but it works.

I agree that sats are not the best to defend a WP, but this metheod makes them more effective than trying to knock out a ships shields first.

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">How exactly does it works now?
What's missile distribution? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I don't know for sure, can only draw some conclusions from watching battle replays http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
However, before, 100 missile satelites pick 2-3 ships and send 30+ missiles to each target. Usually it is an overkill and a massive waste. With latest patch, I saw 10 ships been targeted and killed in the first salvo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

What is the problem with tactical http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

You can always deselect all missiles but few and fire on the first target, then select few more and fire on the second ship, etc.

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Iron Giant goes to speak, then thinks, then runs home to try clicking on the missles individually.........

Re: Satellies: Major suckage? Need help.
 

[/quote]I don't know for sure, can only draw some conclusions from watching battle replays http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
However, before, 100 missile satelites pick 2-3 ships and send 30+ missiles to each target. Usually it is an overkill and a massive waste. With latest patch, I saw 10 ships been targeted and killed in the first salvo http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [/quote]

So, to sum up (call me slow.....), If I go into tactical battle with my satellites, I have to fire all the satellites at one target, but If I let the combat play itself out, the satellites are allowed to pick their own targets? If thats the case, 100 medium Satellites with 2 fast missles just started looking killer again.... as long as I don't hit tactical..