.com.unity Forums - Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

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- - Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch? (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=11549)

Q	March 8th, 2004 06:37 AM

Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

I installed the new patch and used my old savevegame I had to test the "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" ability: In a system with a facility that should reduce the chance by 90% I had an attack with three intel projects (cargo maintenance). All three projects succeded as it was before the new patch.
Did anybody test this abilty and what were the results??

Fyron

March 8th, 2004 06:58 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

I asked Aaron questions via email related to this Last week. Hopefully on Monday he will answer my latest email... I will post his response once he does. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

March 8th, 2004 07:06 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

I wonder if this ability just reduces the chance for intel to select that specific system when "Any" is selected as the target..

Fyron

March 8th, 2004 07:11 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Well... I got this response:

Quote:

Bad Event Chance decreases that chance that system will be picked for a
bad event. Basically, if the system is chosen, and the ability is present,
then a re-roll occurs. If the system is picked again a second time, it
actually gets hit with the event.

Bad Intel Chance decreases the chance of bad a bad intelligence event in
that system. If another player chooses and intelligence project which
randomly picks a system, then this will cause it to re-roll if the system
in question has this ability.

To which I replied:

Quote:

So if you build the Fate Shrine in every system, it is useless? For
Intelligence projects, anyways. It does not actually have a chance for the
event/intel project to fail, but just shifts the target elsewhere? This
seems to be fairly useless to me for Intel Projects. Events might be
transferable to a different empire, so that could be useful. But Intel
Projects will still target the same empire. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

And he replied:

Quote:

If there are no valid targets, then the project just fails.

I am a tad confused as to what it is supposed to do, awaiting another response. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Q	March 8th, 2004 04:27 PM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Thank you for this information Fyron. I explains what I have seen (because the intel projects were targeted to this system). However as you stated this mechanism of action reduces the usefulness of this ability greatly. I supposed that if you have a facility with this ability in the system it will simply cancel the effect of any intel project in this system in x% of the cases (x being the amount of the reduction). If the intel project is just redirected to an other system and if targeted projects are not inhibited, then I doubt that it will be very useful.

Krsqk

March 8th, 2004 10:35 PM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

It looks like a "saving throw." If it's selected, the facility causes a second roll. If your system fails the roll, the event occurs. If the system passes the roll, it sounds like the event fails and doesn't keep looking for a system. I await (your posting of) Aaron's clarification, however.

PvK	March 9th, 2004 01:11 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

If it just diverts it, then you just need a colony in a system to let them beat up. Name it "Bite Me" or something. It could just be a Tiny moon with nothing worth killing on it.

PvK

Mirona Thetin

March 13th, 2004 10:12 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Quote:

Originally posted by Q:
I installed the new patch and used my old savevegame I had to test the "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" ability: In a system with a facility that should reduce the chance by 90% I had an attack with three intel projects (cargo maintenance). All three projects succeded as it was before the new patch.
Did anybody test this abilty and what were the results??

I had in mind in a PBW game to take out the nasty
missile WPs with Cargo maintenance Intel project prior invasion. I had set up a testbed for this purpose to determine how many projects i need to take out a certain amount of WPs. The attacked planet had 8 WPs and 12 sats in cargo the message in both empires says that units are destroyed, but unfortunately looking into cargo the WPs and Sats are still there. Of course i tried it several times with single and multiple Intel attacks the same turn, no result at all.
Am i too stupid to do the testbed properly or is this a bug?

Alneyan

March 13th, 2004 10:18 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

I tried the same thing, and it didn't work either. I am not sure why though. Does it mean this project is broken, or it is too weak to destroy a weapon platform with a single project? As the "Effect Amount" is 1, I would believe the project cannot work properly as for now, but I may be wrong.

Mirona Thetin

March 13th, 2004 04:06 PM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Quote:

Originally posted by Alneyan:
I tried the same thing, and it didn't work either. I am not sure why though. Does it mean this project is broken, or it is too weak to destroy a weapon platform with a single project? As the "Effect Amount" is 1, I would believe the project cannot work properly as for now, but I may be wrong.

Well, cargo bomb has also Effect amount 1 and is working properly, 8 WPs and 12 sats are killed with one Intel project.

Fyron

March 13th, 2004 07:26 PM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

So to continue the previous posting of emails...

I said:

Quote:

I do not think I am understanding what you mean by "this will cause it to
re-roll if the system in question has this ability." Does this mean that the
event/intel project will be shifted to a different system, or that it will
have a 30% chance of just failing out right (if the facility has an ability
value of 30)?

Aaron:

Quote:

A random system is chosen as the target of the intel or event. If you have
a facility in the system which may prevent that event, then a percentage
roll is made. If its less than or equal to the percent of the ability,
then the target of the event is re-chosen. On the second pick, if the same
system is picked again, then the event does happen in that system.

I said:

Quote:

So I was right... it does do nothing too useful. Why would it just shift the
event or intel around, rather than having a chance of actually stopping it?
All it does is have a chance to move the intel/event to another one of your
systems. The description says:

"Decreases the chance of any sabotage activities in this system by 5% "

But instead of reducing the chance of the event/intel to occur, which would
seem to be much more useful to me, it just causes the event/intel to play
musical chairs for a bit. :-\ Sure, you can sort of protect key systems from
random events, but the events still hit you somewhere.

What happens if a specifically targeted intel project hits an object in a
system with a Fate Shrine? Is there an ability value chance of essentially
turning into a random target project, or does it have no effect?

Still awaiting response.

Q	March 14th, 2004 07:24 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Quote:

I can confirm your results and I believe you found a bug. Send it to MM. In my mod the effective amount for the "cargo maintenance project" is 5 and although I get the message that 3 projects were successful and units were destroyed nothing really happens. The cargo of the targeted planet has mines, fighters, sats and weapon platforms.
But this bug has nothing to do with the ability "decrease bad intel chance": Even if I remove the facility with this ability the results is the same. And if I use the "industrial sabotage" project instead to destroy facilities on a specific planet then the ability of -90% chance will give no protection and the facilities are actually destroyed.

Q	March 14th, 2004 07:44 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Quote:

Originally posted by Mirona Thetin:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Alneyan:
I tried the same thing, and it didn't work either. I am not sure why though. Does it mean this project is broken, or it is too weak to destroy a weapon platform with a single project? As the "Effect Amount" is 1, I would believe the project cannot work properly as for now, but I may be wrong.

Well, cargo bomb has also Effect amount 1 and is working properly, 8 WPs and 12 sats are killed with one Intel project. <hr /></blockquote>I did some more testing and I believe I found the cause: The effect amount in the cargo maintenance projects seems to be the damage in kT! Increase the amount to e.g. 1000 and you will see an effect.
The cargo bomb however works differently perhaps because the cargo in a ship or base has no damage resistence at all in contrast to the cargo on a planet.
But as I said this has nothing to to with the "decrease bad intel chance" problem.

Alneyan

March 14th, 2004 01:02 PM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

That was what I thought as well, but I was a bit confused about the Cargo Bomb project. (I had expected its "Amount" to be the amount of damage dealt as well) Or am I confusing it with another project, which deals some damage to the components of a given ship?

PsychoTechFreak

March 17th, 2004 06:56 PM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Still awaiting response.

Still?

clark

March 17th, 2004 07:10 PM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Nevermind...my goof

[ March 17, 2004, 17:12: Message edited by: clark ]

Fyron

March 17th, 2004 10:42 PM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

Quote:

Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Still awaiting response.

Still? <hr /></blockquote>Sadly, yes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Paul1980au

March 18th, 2004 12:03 AM

Re: Does "Change Bad Intelligence Chance - System" now really work with the new patch?

More bugs wonder if MM is just trying to ignore them as 1.91 was the Last patch. So they will just leave it as it is and focus on SE5

Or maybe he is fixing it in silent and will realise another 1.92 or something in a few weeks ? (unlikley)

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