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narf poit chez BOOM

March 28th, 2004 01:17 AM

OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

We have Windows ME and it crashes a lot. So, which one do you guys think is better and why?

[ March 29, 2004, 17:47: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Fyron

March 28th, 2004 01:36 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

95 is not even an option to consider. 98 is better than it in every way.

I would recommend win 2000. It has nearly everything that XP has, except for the downgraded dumbness, the tonka toys interface, product activation voodoo magic, and other XP-specific garbage. It is just as stable as XP. It is better than 98, and can play pretty much all old DOS games, especially after installing the latest win 2000 service pack.

If you want to go Linux, I would recommend Suse Linux. It is the easiest to use, though still not as easy to use as Windows.

Combat Wombat

March 28th, 2004 01:42 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

I would go with Win 2000, or 98 SE unless you want some more user friendlyness then go with XP Pro, but I wouldnt use XP Home, 98, 95, NT

Fyron

March 28th, 2004 01:45 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Actually, do not use ANY "home" operating system. Always get the "pro" Version. "home" means lame, feature-cut, POS garbage OS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Atrocities

March 28th, 2004 02:12 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Windows 2k Pro or XP Pro are the best option for MS OS.

Home editions are limited and suck arse horribly.

I know nothing about Linux other than it is a fricking nightmare to get running right and other than that I hear it is ok for those who use it.

Thermodyne

March 28th, 2004 02:15 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

First thing to do is determine why the system is crashing. A flaky system will crash on any OS. Post a list of the system specs for us. Any stop Messages you can remember would also help.

[ March 28, 2004, 00:15: Message edited by: Thermodyne ]

DavidG

March 28th, 2004 02:28 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Actually, do not use ANY "home" operating system. Always get the "pro" Version. "home" means lame, feature-cut, POS garbage OS. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

That is if you can afford it. Around here the pro Version is at least 2 times the price of the home Version. Personaly I would not pay $300 for a home OS which is what I think XP pro costs. (of course that is Canadian dollars)

DavidG

March 28th, 2004 02:33 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
First thing to do is determine why the system is crashing. A flaky system will crash on any OS. Post a list of the system specs for us. Any stop Messages you can remember would also help.

Having experiance two flaky crashing winME computers now working well with XP I would say your time would be better spent doing other things. I spent an ridiculous amount of time trying to figure out why things were crashing. (probably easy for tech type like Thermo, not so easy for me) I've seen winME often refered to as a 'flawed' product so it may be the problem.

Combat Wombat

March 28th, 2004 03:00 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

I have the same story here. This computer ran Windows ME and since I have installed XP Pro I have had no problems(except those I have directly caused due to my own stupidity). I have no idea how much XP Pro costs, I won my Version for free from a Microsoft event but an Upgrade Version of XP Pro couldn't be more than $100

Atrocities

March 28th, 2004 03:20 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Upgrades are horrible. Better to spend the money for the full program and do a fresh install.

Buy a new HD and install it on it. Then slave your old one.

Phoenix-D

March 28th, 2004 04:17 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Combat Wombat:
I have the same story here. This computer ran Windows ME and since I have installed XP Pro I have had no problems(except those I have directly caused due to my own stupidity). I have no idea how much XP Pro costs, I won my Version for free from a Microsoft event but an Upgrade Version of XP Pro couldn't be more than $100

The upgrade for Home is gennerally $99. Pro is typically twice as much, and I have yet to see a feature list that justifies that.

Electrum

March 28th, 2004 04:45 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

you can get XP home for $95 - $100. XP Pro is about $150. I've used both, unless you need multiprocessor support or remote access to your computer, you probably don't need pro.
You can pick up oem Versions of either at:
www.directdeals.com

Slynky

March 28th, 2004 06:14 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

I have a pretty fair working knowledge of all the Windows OSs. 'Cause of my job. Of course, at work, we all used Win2K. Now, we switched over to XP Pro. At home, we use XP Home (well, mostly because we don't need the extra benefits of XP Pro...go read the differences and you will see what I mean).

Though I loathe MS OSs, I have to admit XP Home has been the best yet. I don't load a lot of crap on my system...no IMs of any sort, no meters, no cute little programs to sit in the tray and screw around with stability...so this and XP may account for the lack of a crash in, well, I can't remember...perhaps a year or more.

If you have the opportunity, I'd offload everything you can (and need), wipe the HD clean, and install from the getgo. Then, get your antivirus loaded. Next, get your internet up and get all the virus updates and XP updates. If you are on dial-up, this will take a while but live with it. It's worth it. Once you are safe, rebuild the rest of your system.

You won't be sorry.

PvK	March 28th, 2004 06:20 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

WinMe is my least favorite Version of Windohs.

I like Win98SE when I can get away with it, for myself, because of the reduced BS. But I wouldn't recommend it to Users who don't already know enough to keep from messing it up.

Next I'd recommend Win2K Pro. More BS but sturdier.

Next, for people who like to be trendy and/or like saccharine user-friendly condescending interfaces, or who don't know a whole lot about computers, I would sorta say XP, but I really dislike XP myself. Way too much MS BS, and the prime target OS of all hackers and viruses. Stupid changes that break or mess up old games. Animated puppies to kill. Still being "upgraded" by MS all the time, full of the latest bad MS ideas, etc.

Linux is a good choice if you don't mind geeking around with funky stuff, and perhaps having problems if you want to use Windohs software.

PvK

President_Elect_Shang

March 28th, 2004 06:33 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

I use XP Home, been runing it since about July Last year or so. Never had one problem, not even the smallest of hic-ups. I don't feel that I am missing any features I need or can't get better Versions of from a third party company.

[ March 28, 2004, 04:34: Message edited by: President Elect Shang ]

Slynky

March 28th, 2004 06:34 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by PvK:
Next, for people who like to be trendy and/or like saccharine user-friendly condescending interfaces, or who don't know a whole lot about computers, I would sorta say XP, but I really dislike XP myself. Way too much MS BS, and the prime target OS of all hackers and viruses. Stupid changes that break or mess up old games. Animated puppies to kill. Still being "upgraded" by MS all the time, full of the latest bad MS ideas, etc.

"user-friendly condescending interfaces"...?

Well, now there is a good reason not to get an OS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif .

Stability is the main goal, IMO. And XP is stable. Or the most stable of their home OSs. Sure, I didn't like the look but I just changed it to the old style.

As to being the target of hackers and viruses...I just say, "Give me your best shot." For a comfortable secure system, try this: A NAT router, NAV (auto-updated, of course), Black Ice (from ISS...app control and all), and a little common sense...after all, the idiots who receive email from people they don't know and just HAVE to click on the URL provided are just inviting trouble...otherwise, NAV doesn't let anything get by with a virus (that is known) and I don't open anything from people I don't know.

Yeah, I know if a serious hacker decided to go after me (like those security sites that invite hackers to try and breach their system), I'd probably have a problem but the chances of that are about as likely as a professional diamond burgler targeting my house. And if something like that were to happen, it wouldn't really matter which OS you had.

PvK	March 28th, 2004 08:40 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:
"user-friendly condescending interfaces"...?

Well, now there is a good reason not to get an OS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif .
...

It sure is for me. All those annoying layers of n00b-friendly crippled interfaces with big colorful rounded icons with shadows, just getting in the way of doing basic things. Stupid wizards with animated characters for a file search that sometimes fails to find files. New innovations in how to make folders named "My X" that are actually misleading shortcuts, and software that assumes I want to use their "My X" disorganization. Whose X? Ya, ok, so you can learn the skill of *****slapping XP's annoying defaults until it works about like Win2K Pro. Or, you can just use Win2K Pro, get a working Search function, less BS, and no "you don't really own your copy of the OS" registration scheme.

PvK

DavidG

March 28th, 2004 01:10 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:
NAV (auto-updated, of course), Black Ice (from ISS...app control and all), and a little common sense...after all, the idiots who receive email from people they don't know and just HAVE to click on the URL provided are just inviting trouble...otherwise, NAV doesn't let anything get by with a virus (that is known)

Is this what you think? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Here's a scenario (one that actually happened). It's Thursday and a new virus has been detected. McAffee and Norton imediately add it to their definitions. Come Monday the virus gets sent to the office and McAfee happily detects it BUT wait Norton is letting it through? WTF! Turns out Norton only updates it's Live Update definitions on Wednesdays!! The stupidity of this amazed me and I let norton know about it. (I could go to the norton site and manual update it but Live Update did squat) The moral of the story is don't assume your are protected from all know virus because you have NAV on auto update.

Timstone

March 28th, 2004 01:47 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Hmm... that is indeed a very freaky story. I better watch out with NIS 2k4.
Oh and everybody with a little bit knowledge on how to find stuff on the net or with the right contacts is able to run a Version of XP without the registration stuff added. Those Versions can be updated whenevery the owner likes.

DavidG

March 28th, 2004 03:55 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:
Not sure what is going on with the Norton you have experience with but I just checked my virus def date and it shows 3/26...a Friday. And I NEVER run LiveUpdate manually. So what is this about only doing it on Wednesdays?

Couldn't find the reference to wednesday but is is definately a weekly update. From the symantec website:

Quote:

LiveUpdate
Most home and small offices Users practicing safe computing find that LiveUpdate provides an excellent balance of protection and ease of use. LiveUpdate definitions are updated weekly , except for major outbreaks, when definitions are updated more often.

Intelligent Updater
Network administrators with many computers, those who have a fast connection, and those who use newsGroups are at extra risk of viruses and other threats. They may want to use the Intelligent Updater. For them, the extra protection is worth manually downloading and installing definitions. Intelligent Updater is updated daily during the work week.

Personaly i was kind of pissed that I got sent a known virus while I had norton and other computer in the office with McAfee were detecting it.

P.S. Here is the link i got the info from: link

[ March 28, 2004, 13:59: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Electrum

March 28th, 2004 04:11 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

I tried NAV. Icouldn't get it off my system fast enough.
But, back to the main topic....
If one is planning on working w/ large files, ai video editing, go XP. the 9X series FAT can only handle 4 gig files.

Slynky

March 28th, 2004 04:20 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Thanks, DavidG. I can't find any reference in Norton about frequency. Perhaps my 3/26 update was due to "major outbreak" and was posted sooner than Wednesday.

Suicide Junkie

March 28th, 2004 05:26 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

The regular auto updates happen wednesdays.
For big viruses, there will be one earlier.

And if you go to the site, you can get daily updates. More for large sites where the admin can grab it once and then update everybody from the server.

Dragonswrd

March 28th, 2004 05:30 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Being a computer technician who has worked with all OS's except NT, I would have to say XP Pro is the way to go. I have been using it since it came out, and except for my screw ups I have not had to re-install. I see ME machines all the time and ME is the worst OS ever. XP does have some stupid looking buttons and such, but you can get rid of those rather easily. Pro runs around $300, but you can find a "copy" of it on Kazaa or other places like it. I used it for quite awhile before getting a free legal copy.

Fyron

March 28th, 2004 07:30 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

If one is planning on working w/ large files, ai video editing, go XP. the 9X series FAT can only handle 4 gig files.

Electrum

March 28th, 2004 08:22 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dragonswrd:
Being a computer technician who has worked with all OS's except NT, I would have to say XP Pro is the way to go. I have been using it since it came out, and except for my screw ups I have not had to re-install. I see ME machines all the time and ME is the worst OS ever. XP does have some stupid looking buttons and such, but you can get rid of those rather easily. Pro runs around $300, but you can find a "copy" of it on Kazaa or other places like it. I used it for quite awhile before getting a free legal copy.

Win XP Pro OEM:
Newegg.com $136.00
(Probably need to by MB or HDD)
Directdeals.com $139.00
(won't need to by anything)
Since it's OEM, don't expect any help from Microsoft (No, I'm not trying to be funny!)

PvK	March 28th, 2004 09:26 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
<blockquote>quote:<hr /> If one is planning on working w/ large files, ai video editing, go XP. the 9X series FAT can only handle 4 gig files.

Or Windows 2000, which can handle the same sized files that XP can, as it is where NTFS started. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif <hr /></blockquote>Actually with Win NT.

PvK

Slynky

March 28th, 2004 11:56 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
The regular auto updates happen wednesdays.
For big viruses, there will be one earlier.

And if you go to the site, you can get daily updates. More for large sites where the admin can grab it once and then update everybody from the server.

Funny...I was editing photos and NAV just popped up with its message saying virus definitions were updated. So now, that's twice in 3 days, this past Friday and now (Sunday).

Slynky

March 29th, 2004 02:28 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by DavidG:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Slynky:
NAV (auto-updated, of course), Black Ice (from ISS...app control and all), and a little common sense...after all, the idiots who receive email from people they don't know and just HAVE to click on the URL provided are just inviting trouble...otherwise, NAV doesn't let anything get by with a virus (that is known)

Is this what you think? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Here's a scenario (one that actually happened). It's Thursday and a new virus has been detected. McAffee and Norton imediately add it to their definitions. Come Monday the virus gets sent to the office and McAfee happily detects it BUT wait Norton is letting it through? WTF! Turns out Norton only updates it's Live Update definitions on Wednesdays!! <hr /></blockquote>Not sure what is going on with the Norton you have experience with but I just checked my virus def date and it shows 3/26...a Friday. And I NEVER run LiveUpdate manually. So what is this about only doing it on Wednesdays?

narf poit chez BOOM

March 29th, 2004 07:46 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Probably should have mentioned that this is a poll.

How much does windows 2k cost?

Thermodyne

March 29th, 2004 08:29 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

2K pro is $99 in lots of 1
XP home--$107 in lots of 1
XP pro--$120 in lots of 1

Slynky

March 29th, 2004 10:04 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
Probably should have mentioned that this is a poll.

How much does windows 2k cost?

I took the poll... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ...so I feel licensed to comment.

I loaded Win2K at home (from the office). I can tell you now, there are more problems running a wide variety of games on it than other OS's. At least, I experienced them. Yes, I suppose there is tweaking to be done, but IF your PC is used for a wide variety of games, I would recommend something else. Go to Media Play or Best Buy and take a look at which OS's are supported on a miscellaneous selection of games.

Win2K was made as an "office" system. As such, game makers weren't overly concerned about making sure games were compatible with it. IF they ran, fine, if not, they didn't expend a whole lot of effort trying to figure out why.

You can believe what you like from people who have posted here. But, look at the voting and ask yourself why you would choose anything other than XP.

But, THIS I can promise you...

"I don't think Win2K is the right OS for you. I feel strongly enough about it that I will send you a check for $25 to help you buy XP."

I don't know you, but I suspect you play lots of games...I'd hate to see you get the OS that wasn't the best investment for you IF that is what you use your computer for mostly.

Just let me know. I'll need an address and a RL name...Narf just won't make it on a check... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).

parabolize

March 30th, 2004 12:31 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

xp and 2k pro will not run old games like starcraft very good. New games on the other hand will work great.
If you got linux (suse good) wine will run older games and wineX will run newer.
suse home ~45USD
suse pro ~95USD (dont get if your not a programer)
wine free
wineX costs something monthly

xp, 2k and suse are all really easy to install and configure but 2k and suse got better GUI.

Fyron

March 30th, 2004 01:57 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Erm... sure they will. I have never seen Starcraft fail to run on an XP box or an (updated) 2000 box... you may have just had bad luck. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif 2000 seems better able to run older games than XP, as it still has the actual DOS kernal around. Of course, you can always create a small partition and install win 98 on it to run all those old games you still want to run... you can install multiple Windows OSes if 2000 or later is installed first.

Suse Linux is free! Just download it from their website. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

[ March 30, 2004, 00:01: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

narf poit chez BOOM

March 30th, 2004 02:29 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
Probably should have mentioned that this is a poll.

How much does windows 2k cost?

I took the poll... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ...so I feel licensed to comment.
<hr /></blockquote>Just wanted to make sure everybody knew, since I didn't stick poll in the name at first. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thermodyne

March 30th, 2004 03:14 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

I would go with XP. Personally, I like 2K better, but that is from a support point of view. XP is more user friendly and has much better built in driver support. Both will run old games in compatibility mode, but XP is a little better at it. Compatibility mode is old news now, Virtual PC has eclipsed it. Virtual PC allows you to have a Virtual OS running from within XP or 2K. You can then load your 9x games into a virtual 9x install. Also, XP is still seeing actual enhancements from MS, SP2 is an example. MS actually put some balls on the firewall. 2K is more or less complete, and not getting the new features that are coming for XP. From an enterprise point of view, XP is a pain in the butt. But this is not really an issue for a home user that has access to administrative rights.

PS: I voted XP, even though I love 2K.

Thermodyne

March 30th, 2004 03:18 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Forgot to add that SP2bata has a built in popup blocker for IE6. The guys that are not behind firewalls should enjoy this.

Slynky

March 30th, 2004 04:17 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

What is this 9x compatibility thing, Thermodyne? I have a game I really like that, I believe, won't run on anything higher than 98. Cyberstorm. And Sierra (I think that's who made it) let it "die" instead of keeping it upgraded. I sure would like to run it again.

Electrum

March 30th, 2004 04:30 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Thermodyne:
Forgot to add that SP2bata has a built in popup blocker for IE6. The guys that are not behind firewalls should enjoy this.

I was just using the Google Toolbar, at least will I was stil using IE

Electrum

March 30th, 2004 04:33 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by Slynky:
What is this 9x compatibility thing, Thermodyne? I have a game I really like that, I believe, won't run on anything higher than 98. Cyberstorm. And Sierra (I think that's who made it) let it "die" instead of keeping it upgraded. I sure would like to run it again.

You need to go into the file properties and you can choose a compatability mode. Sometimes it works, and somtimes.....
If it's a DOS game, it still may not. I have old stuff like that too. I just resurrected an old PC for such things

narf poit chez BOOM

March 30th, 2004 06:57 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Some people mentioned things you should turn off for XP? what are those and where?

(Yeah, we're kinda leaning towards XP.)

Kamog

March 30th, 2004 07:56 AM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Well, I have used or am using Windows 95, 98, ME, and XP. I must say XP crashes a lot less often than 95 or 98. When I was running Windows 95 and 98, my computer crashed a couple of times a day. With XP it crashes maybe a couple of times a week. But with XP some old programs don't work at all or run very slowly. Actually, I find ME is also quite stable and I haven't had much problems with it, oh, except for the networking features don't work well.

Electrum

March 30th, 2004 01:32 PM

Re: OT: Considering changing OS (Poll)

Quote:

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
Some people mentioned things you should turn off for XP? what are those and where?

(Yeah, we're kinda leaning towards XP.)

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