AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

In Adamant Mod, I have HW facilities that produce all resources and are not supposed to be built anywhere. But, the AI builds them everywhere. I looked at Proportion's cultural centers, but could see nothing different about them (in regards to resources) from my HW facilities except that they require 0 tech levels. I think Proportions AIs build non-cultural center facilities... 0 tech level requirements would not work for Adamant, as I need to have 3 different kinds of facilities for the races. So... please go look at Adamant and post how you would solve the problem of the AI building HW facilities on planets instead of normal mineral miners and such.

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Try adding AI Tags to the Radioactives Extraction Facility, Organics Farm Facility and Mineral Miner Facility. Then target the AI Tags in the AI Construction Facilities files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

I was hoping to avoid AI tags... it gets really complicated with abilities that have no value...

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Maybe you could add the abilities of Solar Resource Generation - Minerals, Solar Resource Generation - Organics, Solar Resource Generation - Radioactives, Generate Points Minerals, Generate Points Organics and Generate Points Radioactives to the Radioactives Extraction Facility, Organics Farm Facility and Mineral Miner Facility. Then you can target abilities that have value in the AI Construction Facilities files. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

That is part of the question Urendi. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Hey Imperator, could you please check your mailbox ? I sended you a very important message about SE4 modding through the Boards yesterday.
thanks.

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

*delurks

AFAIK, Proportions AI uses bogus abilities. A quick look at the facility contruction files should clear things up.

*engages Lurking Device

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

How does the Proportions mod do it? It doesn't use AI tags.

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Oh... thanks for clearing that up Rollo. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Proportions mod uses bogus ability tags to get the AI to not build cultural centers on colonies. During setup, the AI uses unmoddable rules which look for the best mineral generation, etc. During play (after setup), the AI builds according to the Default_AI_Construction_Facilities.txt files. In Proportions, these ask for abilities which do nothing on facilities, but which have been added to facilities to allow them to serve as codes for different types of facilities, which is explained in the Default_AI_Construction_Facilities.txt files that come with Proportions mod.

PvK

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Well, I've been playing Proportions and the AI is building Cultural centers in new colonies.
It appears to happen only with 2 AIs, the Dopplengangers and the Kaelons. My guess is that these 2 are not optimized for Proportions.

Any idea how can this be fixed?

And how can I make the AI colonize at a higher rate?
Some AIs, like the Drucks and the religious race (what's their name), never expand beyong their homeworld, that despite having a couple colony ships orbiting their Homeworlds doing nothing.

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

You need to go into their Facility Construction files and changed the normal resource facility ability calls to whichever dummy abilities are given to the relevant resource facilities.

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

ya'll seem knowledgable here's a 2 question bit of fun

1. 15 searches and no specifics on modding the ai facilities file specifically ehat the heck are these states and how are they determined

2 what is the facilities line needed to get a ai to make monolith facilities a standard facilitie in se4 gold 190 (my first burning questionhehe)

why well i intend to define a race to play as closely to my style as possible in automatic thus allowing me to use ministers who have been effectivly "trained" to do what i want them to

eventually i'l need to figure out how to efffect the darn pop minister too

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Originally posted by Yef:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">They need to use ("bogus abilities") only in their Construction file that is with-in that AI Folder.
Refer to the Proportions: Abbidon and the Krill AI Construction files, for a guide.

- -
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Several well fueled AI Scout designs and a quick (Supply Generation) Facility built for a new systems first Colony - is key towards the consistent early AI expansion...

If that new System only has one colonizable moon or one gas planet, etc. It is a MUST for that new AI Colony to have a Resupply Depot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

= = =

You may adjust the Colonizer Calls thru that AI's Vehicles Construction File; However, you need to be mindful of the (present and future) maintenance costs:

Entry # Type := Colonizer
Entry # Planet Per Item := A (little) less %
Entry # Must Have At Least := A (few) more
- - -
Or you may add more calls, latter in the AI modes of the Vehicles Construction File - to ensure a Colonizer may replace the one that lands .

Redundent Calls:
Entry # Type := Colonizer
Entry # Planet Per Item := 0
Entry # Must Have At Least := 1 (or 2)

= = =

Also to caution:
Not usually an early game issue. Any surplus ship over a Planet and with empty cargo space - may fill up or crowd that ship with unwanted units http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Automatic Colonization Population := 1
Will help this. However, this setting of =:1 does have its draw backs.

Modding your design for a (Much) larger Colonizer Cargo hold - will also aid the AI and this may be best in the overall.

[ June 11, 2004, 16:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">With v1.91 - I am not sure how well the AI will respect the Tags or the ("bogus abilities") when the worlds and facilities are placed. If tags are boss - then I would expect little change in the all tech game starts; as you can see, there can be much HW change with that start option http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The AI will decide for itself what facility starts, depending on: In-hand Starting techs, total facility Resource Generation, Research facility Generation, then Intel, etc.
Then you must organize your Facilities within the file, to get the desired outcome.

= = = =

For AI Construction after its game has started

The key is: not to ask the AI to construct by an ability from within the AI Construction file - that has the ability on any other Facility that would have a greater yeild, then the Facility you want built. Otherwise, you must use the Tags and with tags, the position within the file still may be of issue.

If abilities are equal, for example: (stop close warp) and if so, then position within the file - is everything.

This will take much time and patience http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

JLS

[ June 11, 2004, 16:27: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Originally posted by psimancer:
a 2 question bit of fun

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">A long post with explanation with possible applications of AI State strategic modes can be done and has been done; however, it may be best - if you have any specific questions we would be happy to address them.

= = = = =

My 2 Cents for your 2 bits http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

In regards to Facilities: There are a few AI state approaches; However, it may be best to leave this to the default - as it will best cover all contingencies.

You can certainly have fun with AI States in the Research files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

- - -
Vehicle Construction:

If the AI’s Design File is set up with ascending Ship displacements (or not, as in stock se4) And specifically called from the Vehicle Construction under (ONE) Name = ATTACK Then the way the Xiati AI files in the latest TDM is the absolute best review for you, Mephisto’s file ensures a Great AI economy and is able to churn the Combat ships out in any mode.
Consider this, with stock se4 - if left to the sole device for the AI to defend itself, when in an AI Defensive State - then it would wait a long time in the late game when the AI must build the latest design displacement and that could be huge and time consuming for any Player, although the v1.91 se4 AI (planet construction yard bonus) will expedite this construction, proportional to its AI bonus that was set at the onset of your game and TDM has its AI use this to its fullest advantage…


With respect to the AI design and AI State Construction in Proportions. PvKs doctrine and teachings to me - was a micro managed approach for the AI, that would use designs of varying displacements. PvK’s philosophy is such: that the AI can make a great many of the smaller displaced ships and {soon}, with combined large and followed then by even a larger displacement - to oust any Player from that AI contested System {{ASAP}} - when that AI is forced into a Short Term that very well may carry that AI into the long term AI State Defensive strategic Mode.

Both above V-Construction approaches, as with many others - are needed and it will depend on the MODS structure and its doctrines and/or whether a designs stays to stock se4 perimeters and then makes the best of all situations as TDM does accomplish - when playing with stock se4.

- - -


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">When a high level of Stellar Manipulation is achieved by the AI and if that AI decides, that the monolith facilities Resources will yield the best for what was required in its specific Resource Generation call - that AI will build a Monolith facility.

However, it may be best to reach a higher level of research in (extraction) FIRST within your AI's research file - as this will save the AI time and expense to build a much needed Resource facility, would you not agree? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 13, 2004, 02:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Regarding the AI ship building in Proportions, what JLS said is generally right, though some races have some different specific variations.

I'd also add that the theory is that it's difficult to know whent he AI will run out of resources, and so by building up small and inexpensive ships as first priority, and working up the size scale, taking other necessary ships on a priority basis, it should scale its fleet to its budget, and as JLS said, achieve what it can, as soon as possible.

In practice, it may not do so well, due to specific situations. So it takes a lot of work, and ultimately, some AI bonuses, to get the AI to be competetive. The amount of time and energy required exceeded my enthusiasm level. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

JLS had a LOT more time, energy, and enthusiasm than I did, for tweaking the AI to do interesting and competetive things. I was more interested in human vs. human play, and didn't want changes to components and facilities to impact the human options. Hence the great AI challenge in AIC mod.

PvK

P.S. Also note that the shipbuilding strategy mentioned only really applies to a mod with economics and ship balance like Proportions or AIC (where resources are important to ration, and small ships are fairly efficient and offer economic and practical advantages over, and synergy with, bigger ships), and not to the unmodded game (where colonies give enormous profits very quickly, and where big warships are almost always best AND more efficient, by a long shot).

[ June 13, 2004, 17:36: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Perhaps JLS could contribute to SE5 AI programming or ideas.

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">When a high level of Stellar Manipulation is achieved by the AI and if that AI decides, that the monolith facilities Resources will yield the best for what was required in its specific Resource Generation call - that AI will build a Monolith facility.

However, it may be best to reach a higher level of research in (extraction) FIRST within your AI's research file - as this will save the AI time and expense to build a much needed Resource facility, would you not agree? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">thanks i found the data finally and the info on monolith decision making helps

yes making regular is better in many instsnces however my purpose is not to optimize the ai for game play but to allow it to duplicate my play style as closely as possible thus allow ing me to utilize a minister that is going to perform the way i would freeing me to perform other decisions and speed my turn processing
what i am doing is creating a race minister that will do what i would do
efffectively i am trainig the ministers i can access to act as i desire allowing me to operate more like a ruler instead of a manager

[edit]
the items i have found were added to the consolidated list thread

modding questions answers and ideas
[/edit]

[ June 14, 2004, 10:50: Message edited by: psimancer ]

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

Originally posted by psimancer:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Perhaps I misunderstood your question, psimancer.

The AI will build the Monolith facility if you qo with SM research before any Extractions in that AI's Research file.

= = = = = = = = = = = = =
Reference

AI Research File:

AI State := Exploration, Infrastructure, Prepare for Attack, Attack, Secure Holdings After Attack, Incursion, Prepare for Defense, Defend (Short Term), Defend (Long Term)
Tech Area Name := Stellar Manipulation
Tech Area Level := 3
Tech Area Min Percent := 50


AI Facility File Standard se4 Line Calls:

Facility 3 Ability := Resource Generation - Minerals
Facility 3 Amount := 3
Facility 4 Ability := Resource Generation - Radioactives
Facility 4 Amount := 1
Facility 5 Ability := Resource Generation - Organics
Facility 5 Amount := 1

NOTE: If however your AI researchs just one “Resource Extraction" before or After SM=3 the AI will find that specific Facility to yield more then the Monolith http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 14, 2004, 17:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed, a novel idea - Especially for Multiplayer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And if you should drop out, your AI could cover for you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ June 14, 2004, 16:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What makes you think JLS hasnt Contributed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Gurus: Facility Construction
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">exactly thus in one instance i reduce some of my micromanagement and in the other well he's trained just not very good at decision making

like the radar operator on a battleship he can see a enemy but he's not trained (or usually capable)to handle the decisions necessary for fleet wide victory