OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

Subject: Guard unit under fire!
Author: Mad Mike
Date: 19 Apr 2004 04:12 PM
Originally Posted: 19 Apr 2004 03:51 PM
BOSTON -- National guard units seeking to confiscate a Cache of recently Banned assault rifles were ambushed on April 19th by elements of a paramilitary extremist faction. Military and law enforcement officials estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200 injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that the extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the radical right-wing tax protest movement.

Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed against internal revenue offices. The governor, who described the group's organizers as "criminals," issued an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has interfered with the government's efforts to secure law and order.

The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed widespread refusal by the local citizenry to turn over recently Banned assault weapons. Gage issued a ban on military-style assault weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting earlier this month between government and military leaders at which the governor authorized the forcible confiscation of illegal arms.

One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out that "none of these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and turned over their weapons voluntarily."

Government troops initially suceeded in confiscating a large supply of outlawed weapons and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in Lexington met with resistance from heavily armed extremists who had been tipped-off regarding the government's plan.

During a tense standoff in Lexington's town park, National Guard Colonel Francis Smith, commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender and return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was reportedly fired by one of the right wing extremists.

Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange. Ironically, the local citizenry blamed government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before order could be restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard units. Colonel Smith, finding his forces overmatched by the armed mob, ordered a retreat.

***

Oh, I forgot to mention the year - that was April 19, 1775.

Privately owned weapons. The best way to vote "no!"
---
There are two sides to any debate. Mine, which is that my opponent is an idiot.

And my opponent's, which is irrelevant because he's an idiot.
---
"Freehold," January 2004 from Baen Books
"The Weapon," Work in progress
"The Hero" (with John Ringo), June 2004 from Baen Books

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com
http://www.sharppointythings.com

next reply quote
Subject: Guard unit under fire!
Author: Cheryl Daetwyler
Date: 19 Apr 2004 03:58 PM
Mike wrote:
"BOSTON -- National guard units seeking to confiscate a Cache of recently Banned assault
rifles were ambushed on April 19th by elements of a paramilitary extremist faction.
Military and law enforcement officials estimate that 72 were killed and more than 200
injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw."

Sometimes we need a reminder of just how we started.

Cheryl

next reply quote
Subject: Guard unit under fire!
Author: Mad Mike
Date: 19 Apr 2004 04:14 PM
---
There are two sides to any debate. Mine, which is that my opponent is an idiot.

And my opponent's, which is irrelevant because he's an idiot.
---
"Freehold," January 2004 from Baen Books
"The Weapon," Work in progress
"The Hero" (with John Ringo), June 2004 from Baen Books

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com
http://www.sharppointythings.com

next reply quote
Subject: RE: Guard unit under fire!
Author: Tim Covington
Date: 19 Apr 2004 06:41 PM
This is great. Mind If I post it to my LiveJournal?

TimC

-----Original Message-----
From: baensbar Listmanager [mailto:baensbar.listmanager@bar.baen.com]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 2:54 PM
To: Recipients of 'baensbar' suppressed
Subject: Guard unit under fire!

From: "Mad Mike"

BOSTON -- National guard units seeking to confiscate a Cache of recently
Banned assault
rifles were ambushed on April 19th by elements of a paramilitary extremist
faction.
Military and law enforcement officials estimate that 72 were killed and more
than 200
injured before government forces were compelled to withdraw.

Speaking after the clash, Massachusetts Governor Thomas Gage declared that
the
extremist faction, which was made up of local citizens, has links to the
radical right-wing
tax protest movement.

Gage blamed the extremists for recent incidents of vandalism directed
against internal
revenue offices. The governor, who described the group's organizers as
"criminals," issued
an executive order authorizing the summary arrest of any individual who has
interfered with
the government's efforts to secure law and order.

The military raid on the extremist arsenal followed widespread refusal by
the local citizenry
to turn over recently Banned assault weapons. Gage issued a ban on
military-style assault
weapons and ammunition earlier in the week. This decision followed a meeting
earlier this
month between government and military leaders at which the governor
authorized the
forcible confiscation of illegal arms.

One government official, speaking on condition of anonymity, pointed out
that "none of
these people would have been killed had the extremists obeyed the law and
turned over
their weapons voluntarily."

Government troops initially suceeded in confiscating a large supply of
outlawed weapons
and ammunition. However, troops attempting to seize arms and ammunition in
Lexington
met with resistance from heavily armed extremists who had been tipped-off
regarding the
government's plan.

During a tense standoff in Lexington's town park, National Guard Colonel
Francis Smith,
commander of the government operation, ordered the armed group to surrender
and
return to their homes. The impasse was broken by a single shot, which was
reportedly
fired by one of the right wing extremists.

Eight civilians were killed in the ensuing exchange. Ironically, the local
citizenry blamed
government forces rather than the extremists for the civilian deaths. Before
order could be
restored, armed citizens from surrounding areas had descended upon the guard
units.
Colonel Smith, finding his forces overmatched by the armed mob, ordered a
retreat.

***

Oh, I forgot to mention the year - that was April 19, 1775.

Privately owned weapons. The best way to vote "no!"
---
There are two sides to any debate. Mine, which is that my opponent is an
idiot.

And my opponent's, which is irrelevant because he's an idiot.
---
"Freehold," January 2004 from Baen Books
"The Weapon," Work in progress
"The Hero" (with John Ringo), June 2004 from Baen Books

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com
http://www.sharppointythings.com


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Subject: RE: Guard unit under fire!
Author: Mad Mike
Date: 19 Apr 2004 08:23 PM
>This is great. Mind If I post
>it to my LiveJournal?
>
>TimC

It's not mine. I don't know if there is a (c) holder. So go ahead. It's on many of the gun Boards.
---
There are two sides to any debate. Mine, which is that my opponent is an idiot.

And my opponent's, which is irrelevant because he's an idiot.
---
"Freehold," January 2004 from Baen Books
"The Weapon," Work in progress
"The Hero" (with John Ringo), June 2004 from Baen Books

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com
http://www.sharppointythings.com

next reply quote
Subject: RE: Guard unit under fire!
Author: Tim Covington
Date: 19 Apr 2004 09:53 PM
Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: baensbar Listmanager [mailto:baensbar.listmanager@bar.baen.com]
Sent: Monday, April 19, 2004 7:26 PM
To: Recipients of 'baensbar' suppressed
Subject: RE: Guard unit under fire!

From: "Mad Mike"

>This is great. Mind If I post
>it to my LiveJournal?
>
>TimC

It's not mine. I don't know if there is a (c) holder. So go ahead. It's
on many of the gun Boards.
---
There are two sides to any debate. Mine, which is that my opponent is an
idiot.

And my opponent's, which is irrelevant because he's an idiot.
---
"Freehold," January 2004 from Baen Books
"The Weapon," Work in progress
"The Hero" (with John Ringo), June 2004 from Baen Books

http://www.michaelzwilliamson.com
http://www.sharppointythings.com


To reply: mailto:baensbar.368106@bar.baen.com
To start a new topic: mailto:baensbar@bar.baen.com
To login: http://207.203.146.227/WB/?boardID=Bar
To (un)Subscribe: mailto:baensbar.list-request@bar.baen.com

next reply quote
Subject: RE: Guard unit under fire!
Author: Richard Atkinson
Date: 20 Apr 2004 01:35 AM
Concord Hymn
Ralph Waldo Emerson

By the rude bridge that arched the flood.
Their flag to April's breeze unfurled,
Here once the embattled farmers stood
And fired the shot heard round the world.

The foe long since in silence slept;
Alike the conqueror silent sleeps;
And Time the ruined bridge has swept
Down the dark stream which seaward creeps.

On this green bank, by this soft stream,
We set to-day a votive stone;
That memory may their deed redeem,
When, like our sires, are sons are gone.

Spirit, that made those heros dare
To die and leave their children free,
Bid Time and Nature gently spare
The shaft we raise to them and thee.


Sorry to be a little late with this but I couldn't get onto the Board earlier for some reason.

Dick


I've heard that lonely bugle's cry, a time or two or three, I know I'll hear that bugle cry, when they blow it for me.

top reply quote edit delete
Subject: Guard unit under fire!
Author: NarfPoitChezBOOM !
Date: 20 Apr 2004 02:56 AM
>BOSTON -- National guard units
>seeking to confiscate a Cache
>of recently Banned assault
>rifles were ambushed on April
>19th by elements of a
>paramilitary extremist
>faction. Military and law
>enforcement officials estimate
>that 72 were killed and more
>than 200 injured before
>government forces were
>compelled to withdraw.

You know, I think i've heard this before. In books where the US government is turning communist.

I really hope it's just a rumor.

mouse. small, innocuous, cartoony. highly dangerous.

Watch this Topic Mark this topic read

[ April 20, 2004, 07:10: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

There were no such things as "assault weapons" (they had rifles and pistols, no automated fire arms whatsoever) and the "national guard" (militias, yes, but not even an army until after 1776 and the US declaration of independence) back in 1775...

[ April 20, 2004, 07:05: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

Whoop, didn't notice that date. Guess the emergency's off. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Excuse me, just laughing at myself. Alot.

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

actually, i think its poorly contrived propoganda. there were plenty of real life coup attempts prior to the civil war. why not focus on real history instead of this stuff?

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nah, ya think? I was just pointing out that this was not a current emergency situation to Narf, who was worried that it was...

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

Good one Narf.

Puke:
Have you been sleeping through History class http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif ?
Whats not real in the story ?

Fyron:
"The National guard" of the story would be English troops. After all they was the legal rulers at the time, the republic not beeing proclaimed yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

ROFL, I didn't realize he thought it was serious. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Guess you caught the thread before he changed the title.

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Naaaaa!
"The National Guard" would be the local militas, the "Blue Coats". They would supplement the Kings "Red Coats" and provide local defense against the French or Indians.

The republic was not yet proclaimed. BUT, it was a government in operation. Almost independant of England, but in operating Englands name. We had been left to fend for ourselfs and develop on our own.
When we were ripe for the pickings, England got gready, too gready. The crazy King denied us the rights, status, and representation of English citizens.

[ April 20, 2004, 22:15: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

oops, where is that delete key

[ April 20, 2004, 22:16: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

I don't think you are supposed to take it literally Fyron. It's like a modern Version of how the story would have been written if it happened today.

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

real? its highly euphamistic. its not a modernization of events, its a complete re-immagining of events for specific political goals. the analogies that are being made are completely irresponsible.

Brigham Young and Aaron Burr both wanted to carve out their own piece of empire, but no one points to them as shining examples of why the populous should be armed.

even pretending that events leading to the revolution are analogous to modern assault weapons issues and michigan millitia type organizations is absurd. I dont mind the debate, but I think people should qualify their arguements a bit better.

And its not that im for disarming the public, but i would prefer if that armed public was educated and responsible. unfortuneately, they are not.

sleeping through history, indeed...

[ April 22, 2004, 19:10: Message edited by: Puke ]

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif This is true...what was the first "Assault weapon?"?????? a ROCK! do we pick them all up and drop them off at the local PD ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

Well, "assault weapon" generally refers to a gun capable of putting more than a few rounds of lead into a target in a few seconds... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I believe he changed the title as a direct result of my post. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 22, 2004, 23:22: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

LOL, I pushed a button there Puke http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

This fun little story has been wandering the net for years, and if you google for it you will find dozens of copies of it, mostly on pro gun sites showing the evils of gun control.

But there are more to this story. If you don't see any relevance to the US domestic scene of today, try to exhange Thomas Gage with Paul Bremner and Lexington with Fallujah.
Eerie isn't it !

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

[quote]Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
[QB] Well, "assault weapon" generally refers to a gun capable of putting more than a few rounds of lead into a target in a few seconds... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Under that note a "Shot gun" would fit, a sling with a bag of B-B's! where will it stop? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

Doesn't it also refer to firing continuous rounds with a single held-down trigger? Semi-auto would be a round per squeeze without the need to re-cock after each shot, and burst-auto would be multiple rounds per squeeze (usually 3, IIRC), right? So, a shotgun, which fires one shell full of multiple pellets, is still not auto (semi or otherwise). It might be single or double action, though, but that's different...IIRC...sorry...just babbling again...


[quote]Originally posted by mottlee:

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron: [QB] Well, "assault weapon" generally refers to a gun capable of putting more than a few rounds of lead into a target in a few seconds... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Under that note a "Shot gun" would fit, a sling with a bag of B-B's! where will it stop? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

depends on where you are. some places, assault weapons are defined by the stock and grip. forgrips, pistolgrips, heat shields arround the barrel, thumbholes, stock of certain length, detachable magazine, POSITION of the detachable magazine, its all very convoluted and silly.

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

Like I said, lets grab a lot of rocks and turn these weapons in after all that is where it will stop. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: OT: Ok, there really is nothing to see here. Except me making a fool of myself.
 

Ya, everyone could go do spring cleaning in their garages and turn everything in as a deadly weapon. "Well, this old spare tire could be used as an incendiary device..."

PvK