Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Michael Moore's documentary Fahrenheit 9/11 is the event of the day at the Cannes Festival. This is an inquiry into the Bush government's foreign policy, especialy when dealing with the pre-2001 relations between the white house and Bin Laden Clan. No need to say that the bush administration made all they could to prevent this movie to be distributed in the States before the elections.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/thr..._id=1000510632

Another very contreversial US documentary is presented in Cannes today : "Uncovered: The Whole Truth about the Iraq War"

http://www.disinfo.com/site/displayarticle2285.html

From Cannes, for "shrapnel news international",

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

I read "Dude, where's my country" and the realtionship between the bush family and the Saudi Arabians (Bin Ladens in particular) certainly does throw an interesting spin on the whole 11/9 business and the US' recent activities in the middle east.

I'll be very interested to see that film.

Trooper, what is the festival like for a local like you? Do you get to see all the films and schmooze with the stars? If you see Angelina Jolie, tell her I said "hi".

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

The festival has no interest if you're not a VIP or a luxuary shop owner... All interesting places can't be accessed if you don't have a press accreditation.
The festival palace is secured by dozains of policemen when the actors get in, and you can't hardly see anything if you don't wait for hours to have a good place.

But Cannes is a realy a nice place to live... the rest of year. A bit like the californian coast, I think. It's also very hard to buy a flat (don't even think of buying a house !).

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Check the references, check the facts.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, really. He should have shown it at that big conservative film festival... Uh... the ummm... Great Texan Film Festival Chili Cookoff Gun and Doll Show. But he lacks the huevos.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">rotflmao

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

I don't think guys such as M. Moore fears polemic...

But there has been a real attempt of censorship from the US governement concerning this documentary. What does the gov. fear, if all this document is pure bull**** ? And does the US constitution still ensures freedom of speech for everyone ? That's questions I would ask to myself if I was an US citizen...

[ May 18, 2004, 13:12: Message edited by: trooper ]

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

That M. Moore movie is not pure bull****, just something every idiot with below average IQ could think of.
But it could have some impact on the avarage American, as retardation seems to be the standard there, believing everything GW Bush and CNN proclaim.
A LOT of people believed the story of mass destruction weapens as in nukes with uranium purchased from "Africa". What a joke.
Not that I hold anything against USA citizens, just that the mass is quite stupid.

The war in Iraq is escalating, like in Afghanistan, now it's time to focus on something totally different, withdrawing the attention from the Iraq war.
Maybe it's time to "liberate" North-Korea???

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Doubtful. In fact the news today is we are pulling 3k+ troops out of S. Korea and sending them to Iraq. For what it's worth I think Iraq has/will do a lot towards showing us our limitations. At the begining of this we heard a lot of reckless talk about taking the war to Iran and Syria after Iraq. We don't hear that talk anymore much thankfully.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

i do not like Mr. Moore either.

But I do like the fact that he makes you think and ask questions.

That alone makes his stuff worth while.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

If you need that "shame on you mister Bush, shame on you!" moron to start thinking you have a serious problem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Bery true, hadn't noticed that until you pointed it out.
Of course it might have as much to do with the fact that another Iraq (or at least, another Iraq in the next few years) would be political suicide for Bush or Blair. What with all the scandals and revelations of skullduggery and deception they are only just holding on to their jobs now. Blair certainly, Bush probably less so.

Can;t wait for the upcoming local elections over here, labour are going to get obliterated.

I used to be a real labour supporter, but Blair's support of Bush has turned me right against them. We have no viable left-wing party now on the national level, just right (tory party: corrupt, inept and inelectable.), almost-as-far-right (Blair's labour: to think labour used to be a proper socialist party http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif ) and a central party (Liberals: Never been in power, so who knows?).

In local elections we will also have the usual array of independents, extremists and wierdoes, but also the "UK Independence party", which is basically a nasty, reactionary right wing little setup which cares for nothing more than flatly defying anything the other side of the channel and beating up on immigrants and refugees. They will do very well in the local elections, and in doing so split the tory vote right down the middle. Labour will probably lose most of its votes to the liberals, with a few more protest voters drifting rightwards.

I think we'll have the greatest number of liberal MPs this time around than ever in history, and with a little luck we might even end up with a liberal govmnt one of these days. Most of their policies seem ok (they have consistantly opposed the war) but then they never expected to get into power so they can say what the hell they like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif . Personally I'd vote for anyone within spitting distance of the left who wasn't just in politics for ulterior motives.

Still, the liberals deserve a chance imho. I'll vote for them and (hopefully) see what they look like in power. If they turn out to be as corrupt as the rest of them I've decided I'm going to give up on democracy altogether and become a crazy-eyed anarchist.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Simply put any one with enough money and a film camera can make any documentary about anything, even if its sole purpose is to mislead and misinform.

That fat du.. never mind, just keep in mind that this guy makes his living on manufacturing controversy and if he had his way, we would all be goose stepping to his drum beat.

Most people do not take him or his work seriously because it is so slanted and so obviously intended to cause controversy.

I guess we need people like him in our world to remind us that sometimes free speech can be a weapon of mass destruction all by its self.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What censorship from the US government? All that's been blathered is a claim from Moore about Disney "suddenly" deciding to not distribute the film followed by a retraction from him about a day later.

Freduk: Don't bother trying to sound friendly if all you're going to do is presume that most of the people who don't agree with you are stupid, or brainwashed, etc. Give it a rest.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Freduk was just having some fun hence the http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I was not offened.... I may have offended person next to me when i laughed.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

If Disney won't push it, then it must be full of crap. Good call for Disney.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

One thing the movie brings up that no one has rationailized is why did Bush allow Bin Ladin's relatives to leave the U.S. right after 9/11.

[ May 18, 2004, 17:04: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There is no proof of that, and even if there was, there is no PROOF that Bush himself said "Ok, they can go home."

Again this guy feeds on conspiricy by tossing gas on it. If he is such a great film maker then why in the hell doesn't he do a documentary on how Clinton signed the marshal law order two hours before the explosion in Oklahoma? How in the hell did Clinton have foreknowledge of this event? Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? Simple the way it played out was NOT the way it was suppose to.

But will M. Moore do a documentary on this? Oh hell no. Shame on you Mr. Moore, shame on you!

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Other than the fact that said relatives have -disowned- him, and the idea was to get them away from murderous idiots? Kind of like the guy who killed a Sik here in Arizona a few days later. Because he wore a turban.

Hmm, how about the next time someone commits murder we sentance their family to death too. That'll go over well.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Phoenix - you are going to have to do better than that - there were relatives of the hijackers that were being arrested simply because they were relatives. The Bin Ladins, on the other hand, who might have had knowledge of Osama's whereabouts were allowed to leave the country without even any questioning - sure sounds fishy to me.


Atrocities - It's common knowledge. Also - Clinton is no longer President don't know why you keep bringing him up. If anything I would compare Bush to Nixon but I won't go there.

[ May 18, 2004, 19:38: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's not common knowledge. I never heard that before.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

actually it is common knowledge. There has been news reports on this over the Last few years.

Well I thought it was common knowledge. Maybe it is not.

The family left on Sept 12th and 13th. From cities in the USA and flew to Boston. 1 week later they left the country. The Saudie Govn't asked for help on this. The FBI and the American Govn't agreed.
Just because your related does not mean your involved.

So a half truth. Used by Moore to further his train of thought in the movie.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

P.S. his family 'disowned' Bin Ladin publically many years before.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

freduk, I put to you that the majority of people in your nation are just as stupid as the majority of people in the US. The majority of ALL human beings are idiots. It does not matter what nation they live in. Propaganda is used effectively by leaders of all nations, not just those of the US.

Expecting truths from Micheal Moore is more insane than expecting truths from Bush...

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Fyron.... Freduk was having some fun. Leave it at that.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That wasn't the remark I was referring to.

It was: "But it could have some impact on the avarage American, as retardation seems to be the standard there, believing everything GW Bush and CNN proclaim." No http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif or similar.

I guess I should have also noted that freduk needs to get his agitprop correct: the people who don't believe Bush is the ultimate evil are supposed to be blind followers of FoxNews and not CNN. Or is it Drudge? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Missed that one... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You might compare Bush to Nixon, but I would never do such a thing. Clinton was no JFK, and Bush is not Nixon. Besides, if Nixon had not resigned from office who knows how the pull out from Vietnam would have gone. Chance are, and this is backed up by many scollors, that the pull out would have been far better than what we ended up with.

Iraq is not Vietnam so like I said, you can compare Bush to Nixon, I won't.

And for the record, the situation we are now in is far more Clintons fault than it will ever be Bush, or Bush Sr's.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Nixon had already pulled most of the US troops out of Vietnam before he resigned...

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but the north may not have invaded if Nixon had not resigned. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Many historical scollors have stated this repeatedly. I first heard about it when I was in HS and later in that uber borning mini-series NIXON.

We will never know what could have been, only what has been. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

An anti-Bush movie at Cannes. What a risk-taker that Moore fellow is. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

I tend to avoid these OT Posts, but I say this to anyone who will listen, and this group unfortunately counts ...

[soapbox mode]

Michael Moore is an idiot. I formulated this opinion when his first movie came out, and I stand by my conclusion. "Roger and Me" was a documentary about the closing of an automotive plant in his home town. People found it powerful and thought provoking. I found it had a stupid premise -- he couldn't reach the CEO, Rodger, no matter how hard he tried.

So what. You're a nobody. The CEO closed the plant, and that was a hardship. But what makes your need to speak with him fascinating?

[semi non sequitor]
Bono did the same thing on the Zoo Tour. Tried to call Bush senior during the middle of the set. Never got through. So what. Who are you that the Predident of the US has to stop work for a chat?
[/semi non sequitor]

People hated/loved "Bowling for Columbine". Back and forth. I just don't care.

Michael Moore is a curmodgeon.

1). Pick a topic.
2). Piss people off
3). Profit

There's no great artistry here. He feeds a hunger , and people are eating it up.

Like Jane Fonda, 20 years from now, he'll be retconning everything he stood for in these days.

[/soapbox mode]

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">We'll never know if they were involved because they've all were allowed to leave the country before being questioned. Also at a time when US air space was closed the bin ladens were allowed to fly and leave the country.

Coincidentally the Bushes have had a lot of business dealings with the bin ladin's. Osama's father, for instance, through his bank BCCI helped fund some of GW's early business ventures. Oddly it was also Osama's father's money that helped start Al Qaeda.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

[quote]Originally posted by Atrocities:

Quote:

And for the record, the situation we are now in is far more Clintons fault than it will ever be Bush, or Bush Sr's.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't understand what situation you mean. Could you clarify.

[ May 19, 2004, 03:14: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Well, it was this I was saying I didn't know, but I didn't know the other one, either.

Let's not let this get any more convoluted, though, ok? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There is no proof of that, and even if there was, there is no PROOF that Bush himself said "Ok, they can go home."

Again this guy feeds on conspiricy by tossing gas on it. If he is such a great film maker then why in the hell doesn't he do a documentary on how Clinton signed the marshal law order two hours before the explosion in Oklahoma? How in the hell did Clinton have foreknowledge of this event? Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? Simple the way it played out was NOT the way it was suppose to.

But will M. Moore do a documentary on this? Oh hell no. Shame on you Mr. Moore, shame on you! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

very true rex. They are a powerful business family for that country. And yes they are tied in with many corperations.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Dennis Miller summed Moore up nicely, "A three chinned toad." I laughed so hard I dropped my beer! Well said Mr. Miller. Well said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

M. Moore has just received the "palme d'or" for his documentary "Farenheit 9/11"

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Basically any movie that attacks the culture of America with suffient enough lies and mistruths can win a palme d'or.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif This is regretable, but true.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

what is this palme d'or ?

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

*Disengages lurking cloak* It is the award that has been given at Cannes, and it is supposed to reward the best film (or rather, documentary here) shown at the competition. *Goes back to lurk mode*

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

While I recognize an author can sell books on hype and mistruths, I also feel that we later come to learn not everything was a mistruth after a certain amount of time has passed and people are willing to take a fresh look. The Kennedy assassination falls into this Category.

Having worked in top-secret environments, I can also tell you that things are classified for release to the public...the number of years it is classified being determined by a calculated "estimate" of just when its release will only cause a yawn from the public. Think about it.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am not sure if you saw the movie, but, Moore attacks Bush not our culture in this movie. Implying that Moore's movie attacks our culture is a mistruth.

Also if you look at the list of palm d'or winners most of them have nothing to do with American culture.

Still - this probably was a "political" award. It says more about how strong world opinion is against the current administration than U.S. culture.

[ May 22, 2004, 21:02: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Moore is a jerk and only the French would give him an award for an anti-Bush movie.

If Moore was this great documentary film maker, then why doen't he do a movie on things other than what he has done them on? Simple, he is a jerk out to cause as much controversy as his warped mind can produce.

The guy is a jerk, and obviously Disney thought so to.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Haha your issue with Moore is that you dont believe him http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
You think he's telling lies, while my problem with him is that he just tells stuff everybody who followed the news could have concluded for himself, thus making his movie be quite redundant.

Reading your Posts, maybe this works different for Americans. You really think your government has good intentions with other, oil producing countries. Cute.

At least we both dislike Mr Moore. Did you see the ceremony where the trophee was given unto him? How the Tri-chin said "merci" to the public as if to appear humble and that he had taken time to know SOMETHING of their language? What a moron.

PS: I din't see the entire movie but only pieces of it, so maybe I am missing some parts which he obviously made up, but for what I've seen it's correct. Please make ONE example of what he obviously made up in your point of view.

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Actually that's another mistruth.

The jury committee (the ones who choose the winner) is made up of 3 Americans, 1 Brit, 1 Chinese, 1 Finn, 1 Haitian and only 1 French person. 1 French Jury Member does not constitute as the "French" giving Moore an award. You can look it up if you don't believe me.

I suppose it's a credit - and a lack of bigotry -on the French to choose mostly foreigners. I can't imagine an American organization allowing mostly foreigners to pick an award for anything much less the most prestigious film award.

[ May 23, 2004, 21:51: Message edited by: rextorres ]

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I am not sure if you saw the movie, but, Moore attacks Bush not our culture in this movie. Implying that Moore's movie attacks our culture is a mistruth.
.
.
. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Huh, Rex.

Do you mean to imply that lying, stealing, corruption, torture and random killing of people with different skintone or creed is not American culture. Now I'm getting confused.

Edit: Typing

[ May 23, 2004, 21:56: Message edited by: primitive ]

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">if you talking in this way, you can append norway very fast to the axis of evil. be carefully with your words http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

There was a good article on slashdot today about Moore: Slashdot

Here are three links from the slashdot discussion:

bowling for columbine criticism

Moore's response to criticisms

Direct response to Bowling criticism

Re: Completely OT : Cannes, Mickael Moore and the Iraq War
 

Definetly be careful with words. This thread could be in in danger. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif