Leaky Armor Formula?
 

Has anyone figured out the formula behind leaky armor - i.e. the relationship between the Tonnage Structure of a component and the chance of its getting hit? I don't know if it's linear, or if it's weighted toward tougher (TS^2 for instance) or weaker (sqrt(TS))components... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
Thanks in advance!

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/MM/SE4/Tools/

Pick the Compression type you like, and look for
"SE4damagesim"

Its technically linear on the initial hit, but heavy components soak up more of the damage points due to "reroll" effects, partial damage and the like.
Plug in some values to the simulator, and it will do the calculations for you.

[ May 24, 2004, 23:13: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

OK, so it IS linear... Thanks! That makes the calculations a bit simpler for when I finally get to that stage of writing my design analyzer! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

Wha?
I didn't say that!

It is linear at each intermediate step during a shot damage calculation, but the way they sum up over an entire, single bLast is not linear.

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

eh?
What do you mean, each step during a bLast? All I'm looking for is, you shoot at a ship, what are the chances X type of component will get hit? (Armor, Shield Generator, Heavy Mount Phased Polaron Beam, etc.)
I guess you could say that since a shot can knock out more than one component, that has to be taken into account... but I'm just thinking in simple terms, i.e. assuming no shot does enough damage to spill over to the next component, or alternatively, finding only the chance that a component is *first* to be hit...
However, I guess I *could* make the algorithm recursive to find leakiness at any specified damage level... that is what you did, right?

(You know, I wonder what Aaron thinks of our overanalyzing his game like this... I guess it leads to more balanced mods... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif )

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Suicide Junkie

Please define your leaky armor in layman’s terms. With se4 v1.91 - will a 28kt Tonnage Structure Leaky Armor Component (no Armor or Emissive Abilities in play) protect a 30 kt Component fully first and then any left over damage potential carry on to another component?

To protect in an attack - Does the Leaky Armor Tonnage Structure have to be greater then or equal to the other prospective Component(s) or are they hit randomly only if equal?

Are all Ship Components completely protected by Leaky Armor or will the Attack randomly hit any one Component?

Please elaborate and do embellish http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks

[ May 25, 2004, 01:37: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

The best way to work this out would be to duplicate the same algorithm Aaron uses in the damage calculation itself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

For leaky armor to work best it should represent the majority hitpoint contributor.

When designing "light armor" it should have a smaller size than the average component and provide a relatively high number of hitpoints. For "heavy armor", it should have the same or larger size than the average component, and provide a moderate amount of HP - but not too close to the corresponding light armor HP/kT ratio.

Keep in mind, light armor is more likely to allow a hit to break through and damage internals. Heavy armor will provide overall less protection, but will reduce the likelyhood of damage to internals for less total HP.

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

Captain Kwok in your post: (leaky Armor) is this based on a Component with no Armor or Emissive Abilities?

Or stock se4 Armories with either Armor or Emissive Abilities?

= = = = =
Reference se4 Stock Armor Ability

Number of Abilities := 1
Ability 1 Type := Armor
Ability 1 Descr := Is damaged before any other components on a ship.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Number of Abilities := 2
Ability 1 Type := Armor
Ability 1 Descr := Is damaged before any other components on a ship.
Ability 1 Val 1 := 0
Ability 1 Val 2 := 0
Ability 2 Type := Emissive Armor
Ability 2 Descr := Negates any damage of 10 or less.
Ability 2 Val 1 := 10
Ability 2 Val 2 := 0
Weapon Type := None

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

If there is any surviving component with the armor ability on a ship, one of them will be hit.
70%-90% of the time, the ones with the fewest hitpoints first.

Once all of the ability-tagged armor is gone internals start getting hit.
Leaky armor is just internals that do nothing fancy, but are cheap, small and have plenty of hitpoints to soak up damage with.

And of course, all that damage they randomly soak up DIDN'T destroy your guns.

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

Great - Thanks SJ, Captain http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Ooh, I didn't even think of non-leaky armor... Do you have a relationship for that or is it all just trial data? My first guess would be an inverse relationship (a 10 HP armor would be twice as likely to be hit as a 20 HP armor) and my second would be something linear involving subtracting the hitpoints either from 65535 or 65536 to get the "target density"... any info on what tonnages of components you were comparing when you got the 70%-90% figure? Actually I'm surprised that it would be such a consistent probability; with the inverse relationship if you were comparing a 30 HP armor I with a 50 HP armor III you'd get a 1.67:1.00 ratio or 62%, whereas if you compared a 30 HP armor I with a 150 HP scattering armor you'd get a 5:1 ratio or 80%... hmm, I guess that IS about consistent... let's see, a 10 HP light armor vs. a 100 HP heavy armor is 10:1 or 91%, wow, that 70-90% figure is about right for the inverse relationship! (Whereas for the other one you'd get 65??6 vs. 65??6 which is pretty darn close to 1:1 or 50% no matter what hitpoints you use, and I've never seen a mod with a single armor comp with over 1000 hitpoints... well, OK, I think I did put some 250kT, 1280HP "ultra heavy armor" in my Xeo Mod but that doesn't count because no one ever played it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
So that settles it, then, the chance for each "round" of an attack to hit a regular component is proportional to the component's Tonnage Structure, while the chance to hit a component with the Armor ability is (using Occam's razor) inversely proportional to the component's Tonnage Structure?
Hmm, if this isn't in the SE4 FAQ or the Modding FAQ, maybe it should be... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

There is info on leaky armor systems in SE4 MOdding 101 Tutorial. What more would you like to see included?

Re: Leaky Armor Formula?
 

Just the fact that the chance to hit a particular non-armor-ability component first on any given shot is linearly proportional to the hitpoint, the chance to hit a particular armor-ability component first seems to be inversely proportional to the hitpoints, and that in most situations, armor components with fewer hitpoints will be hit first 70-90% of the time as SJ stated. Though I guess only the first item really applies to *leaky* armor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif