OT: html help
 

Could someone take a look at my website source and tell me what I'm doing wrong with the frames thing? Link's in my sig.

Man, reading Batman:Gothic twice is definitally a mistake. *Shudder*

[ May 25, 2004, 02:49: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT: html help
 

For one, keep your style consistent; don't specify a pixel size for the first frame and a percent size for the second - possibly a non-issue, but could be a problem.

For two, you can't bury regular HTML into a standard framing page and have it work right - everything below the /framset tag is going to be ignored (barring the extremely rare browser that doesn't support frames), so none of it will show up - you need to build a different web page to bury that stuff in, and have your framing page refer to it.

For three, is it my imagination, or is that second frame recursive (points to the main frame page)? That could cause some serious problems for any browser that doesn't notice - it could just keep subdividing the frame, caught in an infinite loop.

Re: OT: html help
 

Everything he said.
Try cutting everything after (and including) the body tag in test[1].html and pasting it into test.html - that should give you some results you can work with.

Alternately, google for html tutorials & beginner's guides. Web tutorials are great, they've taught me everything I know about html, css and javascript. (although you've ever seen my javascript, you wouldn't consider that much of an endorsement.)

Even alternativelier, get yourself a web-design package. You can get some great pointy-clicky wysiwyg web design things that will build all the html for you.

never really used 'em myself (notepad man myself) but I know many ppl who swear by them, and their sites usually look better than mine. I've heard great things about Dreamweaver, but I have a feeling that's quite expensive. There are probably some decent freeware ones available.

[ May 25, 2004, 08:45: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: OT: html help
 

ok, I got it half-way there when I load it from the desktop as it puts the menu on the left, but loads over the whole page when I switch to two, but when I load it as a webpage it does the same thing as before. I don't understand, as I'm using the same browser for both.

[ May 25, 2004, 09:30: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT: html help
 

I like the title of this topic!, I'll hijack this thread when your problem is solved, as I need help creating HTML help files http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: html help
 

Narf: You need to use the TARGET attribute in your A tags. To take an example from your own code, you created a frame with the name "nav". You can use this name to direct links to that frame, for instance:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">&lt;A HREF=&quot;new_nav_menu.htm&quot; TARGET=&quot;nav&quot;&gt;click here to see the other navigation menu&lt;/A&gt;</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You can also use the special target called "_top" to replace the entire frameset, like this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">&lt;A HREF=&quot;full_page.htm&quot; TARGET=&quot;_top&quot;&gt;click here to see a full page document with no frames.&lt;/A&gt;</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Of course, you could include FRAMESET tags in full_page.htm if you wanted, and create a brand new frameset.

You should always use target= when you're dealing with frames, otherwise all sorts of unexpected things can happen.

Oh, and I've just looked again at your source and it seems you are only creating one frame, the one called "nav". That is probably part of the problem- less than two kind of defeats the object. (Probably best to start with just two until you get used to it.)

Ruatha, what's the trouble?

[ May 25, 2004, 09:48: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

Re: OT: html help
 

And if you *really* want to do the right thing, you should drop frames alltogether and use divs.
A lot of people use tables but it's not the recommended way of handling layout.
Anyway, divs can be tricky and it takes time to learn how to work with them so in case you don't have time to learn it just stick with what you already know and use frames.
Other tips regarding style/html correctness:
* limit the number of fonts
* limit the number of colors used
* use a tool to check your html code
http://validator.w3.org/
* use htmltidy to tidy up your code
* use a second browser besides IE to see how HTML compliant your code is. For instance firefox:
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/
* if you want to use a free html editor, check out 1st page 2000:
http://www.evrsoft.com/

Keeping this in mind, you'll design pages that won't make people barf on sight. Maybe they'll barf if they read the content bu that's entirely up to you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Oh and your main page, you forgot to close the html and body tag

Re: OT: html help
 

Dogscoff>
I was about to write the help files for the SE4 companion, when I see that most help files today are made of HTML? files instead of .HLP files.
Seems to be something about CHM and Rich Text Format???

Looked at some freeware help writing programs but I don't have a clue as to what to do...Honestly though, I've only looked at it for about 2-3 minutes so I guess I shouldn't be shouting for help already...
It's just that I thought it'd be easy, sigh, nothing ever is....

Re: OT: html help
 

Definetly html help files are a good idea. But dont look for a fancy writer then try to insert the help. Write the help files then insert the html. I think the effect is better. My personal preference for writing web pages is using Paint and Notepad

Re: OT: html help
 

I suggest a real text editor, such as Metapad or Editplus, over Notepad. Syntax highlighting works wonders.

Re: OT: html help
 

Ruatha: I woudn't know, but html is a sensible choice for help files since it has all the features you're likely to need (image support, basic layout, hyperlinking) and is universal- ie can be used on pretty much any machine anywhere with the need for any special software.

Easy to edit too.

Re: OT: html help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmm, I don't reall y know what you mean as I haven't written any true help file before, I've always done my own help system, but this time I wann go with the standard.
So you mean I should write .HLP files and incorporate HTML into those (Sorry if it's somehow a stupid question...)

Re: OT: html help
 

I suspect he means skip the .hlp files altogether and go with pure Hyper Text Markup Language - .hlp files require specific readers, and may not port well to a mac or linux box (as well as being more subject to change, due to the nature of Microsoft). While HTML still requires a reader of some form, it is a MUCH more common format, and virtually any modern platform will be able to read it. Likewise, it's been (how many years now?) since HTML came out, and HTML documents written then still display in essentially the same way as they did when they were first displayed, even though the browsers have changed.

Re: OT: html help
 

Thanks everybody. I'll see what happens. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: html help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, but then you'll loose much of the easiness of windows help files, topic search etc.
But as I don't know how to write win hlp files I'll propably do my own HTML help system with a search function.

Re: OT: html help
 

ok, I guess it just took a while to be loaded into the server. Now I'm going to try a couple changes.

Re: OT: html help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In a previous job, well a few jobs ago actually, i made a html help file. Unfortunately i forgot the steps to do so because i've been writing my help files in pure html ever since.
But a good search function is indeed handy.
Then again, you can search in a dir for a certain string via grep or the search tool from windows
so it's not that big an issue. And you're cross platform http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: OT: html help
 

Weeee! Frames! http://www3.telus.net/funnybnz/main.html

Re: OT: html help
 

Well done Narf.

Re: OT: html help
 

I'm trying a horizontal frame now, but for some reason the stuff is showing up in a new window. I'm gonna use the horizontal frame as a subdirectory.

Re: OT: html help
 

*Poke?*

Re: OT: html help
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What?
Stop poking, it hurts! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

(I don't see any attempt at a horisontal fram in the HTML source?)

[ June 12, 2004, 08:43: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: OT: html help
 

I'm three inches tall, how much could it hurt????
it's on my desktop. I'll upload it. I've gotta be less absent-minded about this.

[ June 12, 2004, 08:48: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT: html help
 

Ok, go to main.html. It's the second test2.

Thanks.

Re: OT: html help
 

Ok, that's weird. It's opening in the same tab now. Ruatha, did you hack my computer? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ June 12, 2004, 09:00: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT: html help
 

Is that what you intended?
I thought you wanted a horisontal frame in the right frame, i e three frames; left column, right divided in two?

or?

Re: OT: html help
 

Something like this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;"> |
+----
|
|
|</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">If that makes sense.
But it's replacing the whole thing when I click on something in the horizontal frame.

Re: OT: html help
 

Hmm, I can't see any horisontal frame.
What I'd do would be something like this:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">For index.html:
&lt;html&gt;
&lt;frameset cols=&quot;315, 70%&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; scrolling=&quot;no&quot;&gt;
&lt;frame src=&quot;nav.html&quot; name=&quot;nav&quot; noresize noscroll border=&quot;0&quot;&gt;
&lt;frame src=&quot;test.html&quot; name=&quot;test&quot; noresize border=&quot;0&quot;&gt;
&lt;/frameset&gt;
&lt;/html&gt;

test.html:
&lt;HTML&gt;
&lt;FRAMESET rows=&quot;100, 200&quot;&gt;
&lt;FRAME src=&quot;test2.html&quot; name=&quot;top&quot;&gt;
&lt;FRAME src=&quot;test3.html&quot; name=&quot;bottom&quot;&gt;
&lt;/FRAMESET&gt;


&lt;/HTML&gt;</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It works for me..

[ June 12, 2004, 10:26: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: OT: html help
 

Well, did that. Still overwrites the entire thing.

Maybe I should zip all the files I'm using and stick them on the page?

Re: OT: html help
 

Oki.
The Nav link tries to open a frame that exists in another document, ie test.
Make the main html like this instead and try:
Main.html:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">&lt;html&gt;
&lt;frameset cols=&quot;315, 70%&quot; border=&quot;0&quot; scrolling=&quot;no&quot;&gt;
&lt;frame src=&quot;nav.html&quot; name=&quot;nav&quot; noresize noscroll border=&quot;0&quot;&gt;
&lt;FRAMESET rows=&quot;100, 200&quot;&gt;
&lt;FRAME src=&quot;http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...rum;f=23&quot; name=&quot;top&quot;&gt;
&lt;FRAME src=&quot;http://seiv.pbw.cc&quot; name=&quot;bottom&quot;&gt;
&lt;/FRAMESET&gt;

&lt;/frameset&gt;
&lt;/html&gt;</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Nav.HTML:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">code:</font><hr /><pre style="font-size:x-small; font-family: monospace;">&lt;html&gt;

&lt;body BGCOLOR=&quot;004848&quot; TEXT=&quot;FFFFFF&quot; LINK=&quot;00FF00&quot; VLINK=&quot;00FFFF&quot; ALINK=&quot;FFFF00&quot;&gt;

&lt;p&gt;
&lt;center&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;test.html&quot; TARGET=&quot;top&quot;&gt;test&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/center&gt;
&lt;center&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;City.png&quot; TARGET=&quot;top&quot;&gt;City&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/center&gt;
&lt;center&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;Jet Racer v0l50.zip&quot; TARGET=&quot;bottom&quot;&gt;Jet Racer&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/center&gt;
&lt;center&gt;&lt;b&gt;&lt;a HREF=&quot;racing.zip&quot; TARGET=&quot;bottom&quot;&gt;Speed Racer&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/center&gt;
&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;/body&gt;
&lt;/html&gt;</pre><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">EDIT:Haven't tried it but it SHOULD work.
Delete all other files except main.html (Should be called index.html) and nav.html.
Then upload the rest of the files that should be there (i e City.png and the rest)

EDIT: Note, the zips doesn't have to be directed to any frame in particular as they will be downloaded.

[ June 17, 2004, 11:22: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

Re: OT: html help
 

Thanks, Ruatha. It works now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

All I need now is content. Hmm...I wonder what I'll put in there... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

A credits page...

A webcomics page...

And now to bed...

[ June 19, 2004, 08:59: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]