Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Since the PBW forum is down, I'll start a thread here to discuss issues with the Highliner Mod...

Either something's wrong with the Xiati shipset, or the Gamma and Delta riders have their pictures reversed, because the Gamma rider looks bigger... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

I do not go by the pic, there are other mods with the same thing but with the ships, have you run into anyone yet?

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Just for the record, here's the pertinent sections from the VehicleSize file...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">This was my first attempt to play with the NeoStandard pics, so let me know if I got the names mixed up.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

The problem is that corvette is not a stock pic, but frigate is, so with a stock set like the Xiati, the Gamma will default to destroyer, but the Delta Rider will go to frigate, which is smaller than destroyer. Since you only have nine rider hulls, and there are eight stock hulls, why not just use the stock hulls for Beta through Omega, and use Primary=Scout/Secondary=Escort for the Alpha Rider? (Or alternatively, use Escort through Dreadnought for the first 8, and Primary=Baseship/Secondary=Dreadnought for Omega... or use CarrierHeavy for Omega, or Drone for Alpha, or any of the other unused hull size pics for either Alpha or Omega and the 8 standard for the others?)

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

That probably makes the most sense. I'll redo the VehicleSize file and e-mail it to the PBW team. I should probably work up a patch to send to spaceempires.net too.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

i did not know that

ed your good at catching this stuff

anyone met anyone yet

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

I have met 2 races now, don't recall which ones. The first established peaceful relations with me and we are both prospering as a result. The second decided to hit me with intel attacks, a cargo bomb on a ship with no cargo and/or a fuel leak on a ship over a resupply depot. When I find him, we will discover how the combat system works in this Mod.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Well I am glad to see there is someone else out there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

The PBW Shakedown players should be getting the new VehicleSize files by e-mail. I'll be working on a 1.05 update (with a few new tweaks) for general release as soon as I get the House Divided game launched.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That's funny, I know I've encountered you, but we have not established peaceful relations and I haven't used intel yet... you ARE using the Jraenar shipset, right?

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Could someone please send me the *old* Version of the vehiclesize.txt? I installed the new one and now I can't run my turn - guess I was supposed to wait till next turn to install it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

edit: never mind, I just unzipped the new one in the wrong folder, I was supposed to install it after all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ May 31, 2004, 03:43: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

its alot quicker than the Last one. But I have no gage on how i am doing since i have not met anyone yet.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Some thoughts and observances I have made;

1)Colonizer Hostile is unusable without putting 2 colony modules on it due to 50% requirement. I figured a Colonizer Hostile would be a colony ship with weapons that can charge into a system and then colonize. This cannot be done and I see no use for 2 colony modules unless/until you have 2 different types (ie rock/gas etc.).

2)Gigant seems almost useless. Once you meet the requirements for fighter bays and give it enough engines for 4 MP's, your left with only enough room for 1 weapon, 1 PD, 1 shield, and then either 1 CS or 1 ECM but not both. (Perhaps by design, I am not sure) The end result is that my Archon costs less, moves more, and basically does the same thing. What's more, the Gigant design then takes 1.2 years to build with a SY 1.

3)Combat (at least in simulator) seems unbalanced towards riders. (Again, this may be by design.) Highliner PD does not target fighters, only standard weapons do and, again because of the offense/defense bonuses in favor of the rider, the Highliner cannot hit the rider. In my tests, I pitted 5 Gamma Riders against 10 Highliners of various design. The best outcome for the Highliners was to only lose 5, but without ever hitting the Riders.

That's it for now. I really like the concept here, but would like to see better combat balance and a little better build times. I agree that you should not be able to crank out a new ship every turn, but I don't think 1 every year is right either.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

You can use missiles against riders in this mod, did you notice? Missiles always hit! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Though I think it was intentional to make riders the primary combat vehicles; highliners are just too big and bulky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I would like to see someone make some shipsets with Highliner pics... maybe Highliners should be added to the next NeoStandard Version?

I took Colonizer Hostile to mean colonizer for colonizing hostile environments. If you look at the colony modules, the non-native colony modules are twice as big as the regular ones, so they do fill up half the Colonizer Hostile.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

My only thought on this is it takes a long tome to build any ship then (colony) the pop is small and as said below the time you get a fair MP you can not carry anything I have yet to meet anyone so I do not know how I am doing as to build up etc.

(Edit: Typo)

[ May 31, 2004, 20:17: Message edited by: mottlee ]

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

OK, in no particular order...

1) The "Colonizer Hostile" is meant for colonizing non-starting planet types. I really liked the idea of splitting the colony techs by world type (aka EKolis' Colony Mod), and just took the idea one step further by making the "hostile enviroment" colony modules bigger.

2) The Highliner sizes were extrapolated by progressive leaps i.e. guesswork. They're not carved in stone. Given your playtesting, how big would a Gigant have to be to be worth the extra research and construction?

3) Perhaps there need to be more weapons for Highliners capable of hitting riders. But I wanted Point Defense to be strictly anti-missile (after all, these "fighters" are the size of regular game starships!!!). And I did intend for combat to be skewed towards the riders, but not totally so. Perhaps some sort of enhanced targeting (either by component or mount) for Highliner weapons?

4) Highliner build times are a killer, I know, but I'm trying to strike a balance between keeping rider build times down without making Highliner build times too long. I'm open to tweaking the amount of kton per pop unit, however...

Great imput, guys, I appreciate it greatly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

As long as we're all here and talking, could you all please give me your sense of how the mod is working so far? What's good, what's bad, what's just plain ugly? Any suggestions?

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

i think a resource converter early in the game would fit nicely. say at 90% loss on the space ports...

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but one thing that this mod *does* allow for now is much more economical Remote Mining. The maintenance costs for having Remote Miners on Riders makes them very profitable to use, and can really help alleviate the beginning-game resource crunch.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Could you then please put in a "Recon/Miner Rider Bay" component, much like Adamant's "Recon Satellite Bay", which launches only one rider per game turn - it seems like such a waste to have Groups of four riders flying around doing mining when only one of them actually gets to do anything... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

BTW, where is the Cloaking tech? Did you remove it?

edit: oh, no long range scanners for riders? what, doesn't the ability work?

[ June 02, 2004, 01:45: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">He means to add the Resource Converter ability to Spaceport facilities with a high rate of loss. 90% is probably too much. In Adamant, I have Spaceports able to do "conVersions" at a 75% loss rate, to simulate trading with merchants within the empire (as opposed to trading with those in different empires). The conVersion is very wasteful, but can be useful in an emergency.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Hmmm... not a bad idea.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yes, Cloaking tech was removed. It won't work on fighters (hard-coded in), and it seemed ridiculous to me given the premises to have Highliners that could cloak. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

RE: Long range scanners, I went back and looked at the list of everything that won't work in units, compiled while I was writing the mod...

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...3;t=009240;p=4

Hmmm... I don't see LRSs on the list. Curious. I thought they were buggy on fighters. Maybe another new component I can add... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ June 02, 2004, 08:51: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">(smacks forehead) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif

Why didn't I think of that?

Interesting idea. I'll think it over.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Here's my initial sketches for Version 1.06 -

- include components for intel and science generation (Bases ONLY)

- a Scout Rider bay

- Long-Range Sensors on Riders (I need to playtest this first)

- Formation & Strategies files from USM

Where I need more input from you guys is...

- would it be worth incorporating PvK's Balance mod?

- suggestions on the combat balancing ideas mentioned in this thread

- feedback on current Highliner sizes

1.06 is aways off yet. There's another project I'm looking to get done this weekend, and I have to finish the House Divided set-up first.

[ June 03, 2004, 11:47: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Sorry for barging in like this (I've been without internet for quite some time), but where can I get this mod? Or is still under construction?

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

1.04 is at Fyron's SpaceEmpires.net site. But if you can wait a few days, 1.05 will be available at another location (stay tuned... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Alrighty then! I'll stay tooned...

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Always.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

make sure you adjust it to your mod.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Forgive my stupidity but is this mod based on a book series or something?

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Not any one book or series per se, but the concept that large starcraft are required for interstellar travel, and that smaller "system ships" do most of the grunt work. Genre examples would be Dune, Footfall, and the Battletech game series.

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

What if it were the other way around - only small ships could fit through the warp points?

Maybe in an SE5 mod... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Highliner Mod 1.05 is now available. Check it out at...

http://www.efrafasector.com/Highmod.html

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Are we going to be using the new Version in the PBW game or is it incompatible?

edit: looks compatible to me... but what is the 25% "glassing percentage"? is that the home system value after loss of spaceport? or the loss of planetary value when it is glassed? the latter is *moddable*???

[ June 05, 2004, 23:27: Message edited by: Ed Kolis ]

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fear not - you'll be getting the new Settings file attached with your next turn. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It is the latter, and it *is* moddable.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's line 42 in the Settings.txt file.

EDIT - fixing my sig

[ June 05, 2004, 23:33: Message edited by: General Woundwort ]

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

Messed up Pics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif Can some one like me to the Facility pics, i have D/l off the Image mod the latest and has messed up the facilitys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/mad.gif

Re: Highliner Mod discussion thread
 

I think I got it..now to see what other one is SNAFU!