Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

Ah, kinda off topic, but I have never really understood why people seem to think nethack is the best roguelike.

On the other hand, I never survived very long either.

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

i once tried out nethack and didnt like it. I think it is a wonderful game, but it takes hours to learn it. Next time i have holidays i will try to learn having fun with it.
Anyways:

1. where can i find the nethack community ?
2. Great idea dogscoff, but you are right, this will most propably never happen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Maybe SE4 will go open source in 10 years or something, but i doubt it..

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

Great idea but using SEIII (IMO) won't work. It's really *not* close enough to SEIV to implement anything more than custom shipsets (again IMO).

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

rags: Try http://Groups.google.com/Groups?sour...uelike.nethack

or point your favourite usenet client at rec.games.roguelike.nethack

Steep learning curve, but that's what the spoilers are for.

Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

OK, I know this isn't likely yo happen, but I thought it's worth suggesting.

The only game other than se4 that I take any kind of community interest in is nethack. For those that don't know it, nethack is a freeware, open source game that has been around for some 20 years.

Now, it doesn't have an awful lot in common with SE, but it does have at least one thing: The nethack newsGroups are brimming with Posts where people suggest ideas to make the game better: New weapons, new artifacts, new monsters, classes, player/item/monster behaviours and so on.

Likewise, the SE Boards are always full of neat ideas about things that could be added to the game or things that could be done differently.

Occasionally Nethack's Dev team will look kindly upon one of the ideas from the community and implement it into nethack.

Occasionally Malfador will look kindly upon an idea one of the ideas from the community and implement it into SE.

If a nethack player's idea isn't implemented by the devteam, he's free to open up the source and implement it himself. If the patch is successful, it might get incorporated into the game. After all a suggestion with the code written and the gameplay proven carries a lot more note than a simple "wouldn't it be cool if..?"

If an SE player's idea isn't implemented by Malfador, he's free to mod the files and try to implement it himself. If the mod is successful, it might get incorporated into the game.

However, there is a big difference between tinkering with a game's source code and modding se4. Most of the cool ideas we come up with for SE can't be implemented by modders- the hardcode just won't allow them. What we need is to be able to play with the source directly, to patch SE and then submit those patches for malfador's approval. LWe have enough programmers hanging around here and, like I said, a suggestion with the code written and the gameplay proven carries a lot more note than a simple "wouldn't it be cool if..?"

Of course, I dont' ever expect Malfador to open up the code to se5, or even se4. It just wouldn't be good business.

However, I think SEIII is sufficiently far-removed from the newer games to be opened up safely, but close enough in gameplay for players to produce patches that would show how their changes might affect newer Versions. Once a patch's gameplay and balance have been played, tweaked, refined and approved by the community, it could be submitted to Malfador for inclusion in se5- Sure, code from SEIII couldn't be ported straight into se5, but it would be a good framework for Aaron to work with, and most inportantly, we'd have a good idea of whether or not the idea is worth implementing in the first place.

Just a thought...

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

I'm not sure what aspect folks enjoy of a game. I tend to look for:
A good 4X game
Not too much time spent on economics. I thought Civ II was perfect and I like the system in Empire Deluxe.
The ability to Mod the AI, graphics, and sound
If EDEE is what I hope, I'll never need another game.

If SE III could open up the AI to programing that would be very very tempting.

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

What's this EDEE?

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

Dogs the other rogue like game that is superior to nethack in my opinion is the angband and zangband and variants of that - they are open source and more variants and ideas and the games themselves are far more detailed then nethack - it actually branced off from nethack but has a much bigger development community in progress and has a higher player amount

In this genre Space 4X open source we have freeorion.org ? which is in early stages but seems to be the only viable alternative in terms of similarness - if i was MM i would consider opening up SE2 to open source and then SE3 once SE5 was out - yes with all the programmers it could be very viable and it probably wouldnt distract to many players from SE5 as it would be superior but it could be something to work with - id like to hear from MM (aaron) on this. Commercially i guess he would be a bit cautious but there is always a place for superior commercial products similar to the open source alternative - the only thing would be new ideas in a open source he would have to be careful to generate his own source code due to GPL conditions.

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

You do not have to use the GPL to release code in open source... that is just one possible license. Aaron could create his own open source license if he wanted to, just for one specific purpose.

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

same, whats this EDEE ?

secondly, where can i find those angband and zangbank games ? ty

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

you can play angband multiplayer and Online.

www.mangband.com

of course, nethack is the superior game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

*ducks*

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

After hitting the Illwinter web page and seeing they recommended Dungeon Crawl, I checked it out and got semi-hooked. I went back to try Nethack again (which I've played on and off for years), I thought I rather preferred Dungeon Crawl. They're similar, but different. Worth a look for a change of pace. I don't expect to go back to nethack much though, myself. Though it definitely has many things Dungeon Crawl doesn't (and to a lesser extent vice versa, but DC does several basic things "better", to my tastes).

As for the actual thread topic, it's a reasonable idea. Aaron could even just release parts of the source code - not enough to recreate the game, but some useful game mechanics sections that players might be interested in. Maybe. Just a thought.

PvK

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

Or the SE4 forum programmers could get together and attempt to build a game from scratch - open source it - how long would it take with all the modding talent to create a new game from scartch but similar to SE4 with new ideas though ?

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

There are many people trying that already. With the new stars project and others. However the Dominations and Free-Orion forums are off line. I guess they went bust or something.

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It will consume a lot of time just to recreate a se4 in details. But then it will be done, SE5 will be out and FreeSE4 will be completely obsolete.

The only chance for success for such project is to suppose that SE5 will suck badly. But I hope it won't.

The reason of FreeOrion's birth was than will be no MOO4. You have to agree, we have a rather different situation.

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

EDEE - Empire Deluxe Enhanced Edition
It will be a 4X game based on you starting with one city. There is no era per se but it is for the most part post WW II. You could create a mod for any period.
The econimic modle is very simple. One city supports X number of units. A city not producing something supports more units
No Tech Tree. Both sides play the game with the same units available.
No maintenance cost
You will be able to mod the unit sets and terrain, and graphics.
Modding the AI will also be possible.
Here is a little more about it:
http://www.windingstream.com/ed/EDEE.htm

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

I emailed aaron a little while back and he said that he will be giving out the SEII source code when SEV comes out.

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

Yaay!

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

At one point I tried making just the header files for a game that would be similar to SEIV (I put in a few extra things, like more detailed attributes for planets/ships/crews/etc, and sorting function prototypes). Before I lost it (I was saving everything to a floppy because I was working at high school), there was something like 40 different files with ~50k bytes of data. For just the headers. Once you start writing out all the data structures and functions you would need, it balloons very quickly.

If someone wants to head up a project like this, and then actually start implementing the code, I'd be willing to throw in a few hours of work a week on it as a hobby. I don't have the time to head a project though.

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Do you know what programming language SEII is written in?

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fantastic news!

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Do you know what programming language SEII is written in? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think I remember reading that SEII was written in Delphi. Of course that was a while ago so my memory may not be accurate (cheap pharmesuticals and all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).

Re: Contraversial idea for a better se5
 

I believe SE3, SE4, DO, and SF were all written in Delphi as well. I seem to recall that Aaron mentioned in one of the Online IRC chats that we wanted to move to C++ for SE5 because there are a lot of code libraries for it that would be of tremendous use.