OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

Just saw Spiderman 2 yesterday, and it occurred to me that there still might be people, mostly comic book fans, who might not like the movie's take on Spiderman. I wasn't a big superhero reader back in my early years; for some reason, I liked the war comics instead. So Sgt Rock and Sgt Fury were my idols back then. Plus, I just didn't like the cadre of Marvel heroes. I'm still more of a DC guy, preferring Batman and Superman. Anyway, from what limited knowledge of Spiderman I've received over the years, I know Peter Parker had to made a chemical solution and use mechanical web-shooters, instead of them coming out of his wrists. I also know that Pete's first true love was a girl called Gwen Stacy, and she died when the Green Goblin threw her off a bridge and Spiderman used his web to stop her, thus causing her to die from a broken neck due to the whiplash that occurred during the sudden stop. So, for you purists out there, the movies may stink. I'd like to hear what you people have to say. Personally, I loved both movies, and can't wait for the 3rd one. And, not giving nothing away, the movie definitely sets things up for the 3rd installmant. But we're going to have to wait until 2007 for it.

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

Not much of a fan of any Spiderman, here, though ya I remember he had mechanical gadgets with web juice supply required, and the whiplash killing the girl is a neat detail which seems like a bad thing to re-do, even from a non-fan perspective.

The preview I saw seemed like it had elements that seemed new and unimproved to me. Particularly, I don't much care for the current style of CGI special effects. They seem rather fake and underwhelming. The physics and human reaction times and psychological reactions to violence seem way wrong, from what I've seen. I haven't seen either Spiderman film though, just trailers, so it's a preliminary guess.

Examples:

Bad physics/timing/psych impressions:
* Recent Hulk movie (trailers - saw enough though)
* Recent Pearl Harbor movie (real WW2 not "cool/heroic" enuff for someone??!?!?)
* Star Wars: Episode I & II
* Terminator 3
* Van Helsing (trailers - again, saw enough)

Good physics impressions:
* Superman II (not great, but better superhero physics, I thought)
* The Battle of Midway (late 70's film with real war footage)
* Star Wars: Episode IV
* Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan
* Terminator 1 & 2
* Recent commercial where guy tries to swing like Spiderman and goes face first into a building.

PvK

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

Well, I saw the first Spiderman movie and it was OK. The preview for the second movie showed an intersting Dr. Octopus villain so I might go see the movie. Never read the comics, but I watched the cartoon when I was a kid. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

PvK, I think the reason why some of those movies stink is that the direct/producer/executive productor relied too much on special effects. Sure, you can have a totally digitized, computer-enhanced film, but without a great story to match the great effects, then the picture is marred. I think that's what happened to George Lucas. He waited so long for the special effects technology to catch up to what he wanted to be done, that he forgot that it was the story in the original movie that captivated people. Sure, there was some pretty original effects in Star Wars (I'll still call the fourth film that until the day I die), but it was the story that drew people in. The man had this idea floating around in his head for 30 years, but he actually didn't write it down until he starts making the first episode? I think he just lost touch with his own creation, and relied on special effects and fancy marketing. Just look at Jar Jar as an example. Not only was he annoying, but you just couldn't stand to watch him. I think George Lucas should be forced to watch Spiderman 2 50 times so that he can be taught how to create a great sequel to an already great film. As a matter of fact, anybody who's considering to make a sequel of any film should be forced to watch this movie as an example of how it's done correctly. There are too many examples of how it's been done wrong (Highlander 2 is the most obvious in my memory).

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

I am a comic book fan, mostly on the Marvel side of things. I read Fantastic Four, Avengers, X-Men, etc when I was younger, just before Image became a split-off with the more violent Spawn and Savage Dragon.

I have read a fair amount of Spider-Man comics, and I must say that the first movie nailed the origin very well with a modern updating. The trivial things like the webs coming out of Parker himself make more sense considering he's had his genome spliced with a radioactive spider.

Mary Jane was Parker's first crush. Now, I haven't read all the stuff from the sixties, but he wanted to go out with her. It didn't work out so he ended up with Gwen Stacy who was killed as a result of Parker's scuffle with Green Goblin.

CGI swinging thru the New York skyline aside (some of it was good, some bad), Sam Raimi, the director, did another great job of keeping the heart of Spider Man in this movie.

One of the greatest moments in comic book history is Parker walking away from the garbage can with the suit hanginging out with the words "Spider-Man no more!"

There was also a great nod to Maguire's real-life back injury which almost kept him out of SM2.

Maguire's character's interaction with Aunt May continues to be great, especially their discussions regarding guilt over the death of Uncle Ben in the first movie and how they both feel completely responsible for the events that transpired.

As you can probably tell, I really enjoyed the second movie. It boils down to a great summer movie based on a classic comic book. If you don't like popcorn movies with a pretty good character-driven story, obviously this isn't for you. But, if you've been waiting for Hollywood to get a comic book right, this is your ticket.

Wildcard

EDIT: For a good time, when you're browsing in a bookstore, pick up Secret Wars trade paper back and flip to issue #3 where Spider-Man takes on the X-Men and wins! Incidentally, Secret Wars #8 is the origin of the black costume which proceeded to cause a lot of headaches later on...

[ July 07, 2004, 02:00: Message edited by: wildcard06 ]

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

As far as sequels go Spiderman 2 ranks as one of the best. The storyline stays true enough to the comic story that the small details (such as the webs and Gwen/MJ) are small enough to ignore IMO.

I loved the movie. Couldn't get it out my head for days.

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Highlander 2?. Sorry doesn't exist. There was the original Highlander then the sequel Highlander 3. Sorry, there is no such movie as Highlander 2. no such thing. none, I say!. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i wonder if they 'borrowed' this idea from the late, great Spiderman 2099 series.

/me used to love the 2099 titles...

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">IIRC the time Parker gave up on being Spidey in the comics was when they introduced the Sinsister Six. Let me see, there was the Vulture, Sandman, Electro, Kraven the Hunter (Who looked like at least three of the village ppl), Mysterio and Doc Oc. They captured Aunt May and forced Parker to fight each of them in turn. Dumbasses should have ganged up on him, but hey- that's supervillains for ya.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">One of the great things about their relationship in the comics that didn't show up in the first film is that Aunt May *hates* spiderman- she thinks he's creepy and nasty. When she met Doc Oc, however, she thought he was a perfect gentlemant, and told Peter off for picking on his 'disability'. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif I hope some of that gets put into the second (or third) film. Of course, there's a reason she always disliked Spidey, revealed on her death bed, which is that sh***THIS SENTENCE EDITTED BY SPOILER POLICE***bout him.

What's next? How about a huge Hollywood Spidey/X/Daredevil/Hulk crossover? But really, they should be making 2099 into a huge, 16-part series of films...

--
"Why, it's the offensively out-of-proportion Mrs Tammy Ladhands."
Lethargic Lad taking the piss out of Spiderman in issue 1- or was that in issue 2? Ummm...

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

For those who saw the movie, and those who know Spiderman comics, the next villian is obvious. I won't say anymore on that for spoiler issuse.

I'm hoping to see Veneom in a future Spiderman movie, but I'm not sure how they'd pull that genisis off... Venom has to be my favorite Comic Villan.

Can always hope.

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

As far as crossovers go, I'd love to see Spiderman, Daredevil and the Punisher team up. There were a couple of comics like that, and it would be neat to see on film. Thomas Payne has already stated he would love to be in a Spiderman movie, but we all know that Ben Affleck has given up his tights. I'm sure they can find somebody else to fill the role, like they did with Batman. For those that don't know it, the Punisher origin happened in Spiderman (#127, i think). I don't see it happening, but it would be nice.

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I agree that's one of the essential shortcomings of films like the recent SW flicks. Two others are the lack of convincing terror during combat (reducing the events to unemotional CGI contests), and the bad physics I mentioned before (making the motions look unconvincing and stupid, to people who have seen real objects move, or the pacing of real fighting and panic situations).

Episode IV showed rebels who were afraid of the stormtroopers bLasting them, and with good reason. Episodes I-II had kids who were too young to act, doing impossible physics-defying and common-sense-insulting stunts and risking their lives without a second thought or even seeming concerned at all, and laying waste to bunches of unemotional opponents as a sort of "oh yeah, they died" side-effect.

Reaction times (in Episode IV) were also NOT fake-o instant reactions where the only pause between gymnastic combat is for unbelievable blase one-liners ("I'm so cool, I am not at all concerned by your CGI powers. Watch my CGI be scripted to (yawn) defeat you. Now, watch my CGI not need to take any time to catch its breath, get its bearings, tell friend from foe, catch its balance, or anything that weak non-CGI beings need to do."). Episode IV showed sweating terrified rebels getting bLasted, and used actual WW2 dogfight films to choreograph the maneuvers of fighters in combat. Episodes I-II had nonsense like jumping thousands of feet onto speeding moving vehicles, and catching light sabres from similar distances, without breaking any bones or failing to grab hold of things, and plenty of generally way-too-fast and way-too-maneuverable and way-too-easy maneuvers by the way-too-unconcerned pilots.

Ok, pardon the side-topic rant. Ahem.

PvK

[ July 07, 2004, 19:02: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

It seems in a lot of story's today that the characters are unaffected by violent death. 'Oh, gee, I was an ordinary office worker and now I'm killing people. Neat.'

Did I just poke a huge hole in the matrix?

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Gotta love Spider Man 2099, John Romita Jr at his best... And the main character? Miguel O'Hara!

Wildcard

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I thought that Quigon, Obi-Wan and Anakin were way too calm in situations of great danger... I just assumed that all those years of strict Jedi training lets you eliminate fear or something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Gotta love Spider Man 2099, John Romita Jr at his best... And the main character? Miguel O'Hara!

Wildcard </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Missed the pop culture reference again... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I thought that Quigon, Obi-Wan and Anakin were way too calm in situations of great danger... I just assumed that all those years of strict Jedi training lets you eliminate fear or something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly. As audience, I got the clue I didn't need to worry, or care, either. Especially when the CGI also looked so fake that it was obviously an illusion, as for example in the "submarine with ridiculous CGI attention-deficit-ecology of whales chain-swallowing each other in the background" scene.

I have heard the idea that maybe Jedi are just hyper-cool-minded before, but gee, compare to the way Sir Alec Guinness portrayed an (older, so presumably more serene) Obi-Wan (i.e., he was cool and in control, but also showed visible concern, worry and alarm at appropriate times), and I think it's pretty darn clear that the real reason is lack of good acting and/or direction.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. Sigh.

Quote:

Did I just poke a huge hole in the matrix?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In which sense? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The Matrix is kind of interesting in the levels of fakeness turning out to be in fact fake, on multiple levels. However it's undermined by the retarded Hollywood direction where so much is fake hyper-speed broken physics zero-reaction-time zero-fear nonsense anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK

[ July 08, 2004, 21:09: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: OT - Spiderman: movie Version or comic book Version?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, I thought that Quigon, Obi-Wan and Anakin were way too calm in situations of great danger... I just assumed that all those years of strict Jedi training lets you eliminate fear or something. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Exactly. As audience, I got the clue I didn't need to worry, or care, either. Especially when the CGI also looked so fake that it was obviously an illusion, as for example in the "submarine with ridiculous CGI attention-deficit-ecology of whales chain-swallowing each other in the background" scene.

I have heard the idea that maybe Jedi are just hyper-cool-minded before, but gee, compare to the way Sir Alec Guinness portrayed an (older, so presumably more serene) Obi-Wan (i.e., he was cool and in control, but also showed visible concern, worry and alarm at appropriate times), and I think it's pretty darn clear that the real reason is lack of good acting and/or direction.

Quote:

Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM: It seems in a lot of story's today that the characters are unaffected by violent death. 'Oh, gee, I was an ordinary office worker and now I'm killing people. Neat.'

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yep. Sigh.

Quote:

Did I just poke a huge hole in the matrix?

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">In which sense? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif The Matrix is kind of interesting in the levels of fakeness turning out to be in fact fake, on multiple levels. However it's undermined by the retarded Hollywood direction where so much is fake hyper-speed broken physics zero-reaction-time zero-fear nonsense anyway. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

PvK </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Usually, George Lucas has used less experienced actors in his SW films. Whoever heard of Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher or Harrison Ford before SW IV came out? But there was no excuse for the actors in SW I. The main actors were all experienced actors, even Jake Lloyd and Natalie Portman had a few films under their belts before this movie. Like I stated before, I think Lucas has lost his touch at directing, and the first two SW films are proof of it. I just hope the third film will try to make amends for the first two. I'm crossing my fingers until next May.