OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Hello,

I want to connect my HP xp System to my Win2k system via my data link hub. Before I had DSL the system worked find. I could share files without problem. But now that the hub is being used as a remote link to the DSL modem, I no longer can access information on the win2k system.

I tried the network set up wizard, but I don't think it worked, or does not work for what I need it to do.

Can any one offer a suggestion?

Thanks.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Some form of headache medicine. We've pretty much given up on keeping the home lan up unless we really need it and our hub is our internet too.

No idea how my dad gets it working.

[ July 15, 2004, 01:24: Message edited by: narf poit chez BOOM ]

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

"I no longer can access information on the win2k system."

Do you mean it is a one-way problem or something else?

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Won't the XP write your network LAN protocalls to a disk for another System?

[ July 15, 2004, 01:39: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

I'm probably off base here but this is my thought (and maybe I was similar to your situation):

Before, we had 4 PCs hooked up on the hub for home networking. At that time, we had dial-up (ugh!). But dial-up had nothing to do with the hub.

Then we got cable (same as DSL...just a different "brand").

At this point, a hub, by strict definition, couldn't handle things. So, I replaced it with a router. One port on the router connects to the cable (or in your case, DSL). The other ports connect to the PCs to share the DSL connection.

So, all our PCs have broadband access AND connectivity to each other.

Does this help any?

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Two way. Before I could access info from either machine. Now I cannot. I think it has to do with the hub also acting as the ISP interface. IE both machines wired into it, and it into the Modem.

Also both PC do have access to the internet independantly of one another.

[ July 15, 2004, 02:30: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Since I have a wireless enabled DSL modem, it is possible, however unlikely, that it acts as the the hub thereby negating the D-Link hub.

However when I disconnected the DSL from the Hub, and switched it back, I still was unable to establish a machine to machine connection.

What I am attempting to do is set up the machines to play head to head. I am rebuilding an older PC to use with these two machines that will function as a server. (Win2k) So I will have a Win2k PC, An XP pc, and a Win2k server.

Now I have no experience in this, however, now that I think of it, I do know someone who is IT certified.... I should call my friend and have him call him. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The other option is to buy a wireless adaptors for both machines.

I simply do not know what the problem is, but I wish I could fix it. The Blue box needs a new floppy drive. So much for Teac being top of the line. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

With that I shall try the network disk that XP made and see if that works.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Okay, first of all a hub can network a DSL based internet enviroment assuming it has an uplink option (old hubs you have to push the button but new ones do it automatically), However I would never suggest you buy a hub unless you have a specific reason for it.

Try pinging the other computers IP address from the command prompt. If it works you know the computers can communicate but that there is something else that is not letting them see eachother.
If they can ping eachother check to make sure they are in the same subnet ("ipconfig /all" at the command prompt)
If there is an issue with the subnet there are three options:
1. call your ISP and request that you get ip addresses in the same subnet (never tried this so I don't know if it works)
2. Install a second network card in the XP machine and run the DSL straight into it and share it through the hub with the 2000 machine (it can be done the other way around but XP has a very nice and easy to use wizard)
3. Buy a router, most home routers will run a DHCP services thus providing you with a proper subnet (This also adds a second layer of security as routers block access to computers, unless they themselves are compromised)

My guess would be that the subnets are the problem but a couple other things to check are:
Drivers (get the manufacturer's drivers not microsofts)
WorkGroups (I don't think this is a problem in XP and 2000 but in the old 9X systems I don't think you could see other workGroups)
Try different ports on the hub, I have had ports on hubs go out before (it got all the way down to where only one of them worked, still don't know which http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif )

That's just my thoughts, someone with more knowledge could tell you more exactly but this should get you started at least.


..... Oh and any changes you make you will most likely have to restart (including removing the DSL)

[ July 15, 2004, 03:42: Message edited by: Starcrusade ]

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Basically, the problem is that you have a PC running XP... it really screws with networks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Good luck getting it to see the 2k computer! Make sure to kill the built-in XP firewall. It is wholey useless in any practical situation. All that it does is give you a huge headache trying to get networks running... you can disable it in the properties of the connection used in Network Connections. I believe it is in the Last tab.

As Starcrusade alluded to, you can not use mutliple PCs on the same internet connection through a hub. You must have a router (most routers have a hub or a switch built in). And no, having 2 separate connections with different IP addresses to DSL does not count...

I suggest using a build of linux as the server, rather than win2k server. There are some builds designed specifically to be used on PCs set up as routers. No need to buy an actual router, just a second network card for the comp to turn into a router. It can also act as a web server, mail server, print server, etc.

[ July 15, 2004, 05:48: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

I have the Actiontech 54meg wireless DSL modem. Both PC's are accessing the internet simutaniously through the D-Link hub which is connected to the DSL modem.

Thanks for the info guys. I think I will invest in a router or two wireless cards later this week and go directly through the Modem.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Is the modem capable of serving as a router? Check the box before you go out and buy wireless network cards...

Just install Linux as a router on that PC you were going to install 2k server on. No need to buy anything extra, other than another 10-15 dollar network card.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I can see if it was XP to Windows 9x. But XP to XP and without a hub or router the floopy has never failed.

I have seen this advised on a lot of gaming sites and all with success to include my families home network.

How did the network professional you paid for install your network did he also have to reformat your drive. Maybe it was something you already had installed and the new format resolved it?

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">WinXP Home is your problem there. XP Professional would work just fine as here at work we have no problems with it. But if we used Home Edition there is no way a network would work.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

We have 3 PCs on our router that have XP Home and there is no problem mapping drives.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

XP home will p2p just fine. It just can not be joined to a domain, intent being to keep it out of the corp. world.

For a small (<5) system home network, read up on the ICS feature built into Windows. Look in the help file, there are direction on how to impliment it there.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

First, we use a hub. Second, the IT guy was not what I would call professional. he managed to get our computers to see each other via direct 'ping' and by using the run //ken and run //david we saw each other instantly. but going through the regular explorer and clicking on network places etc, took forever (aka 10 mins while the computer stays 'locked' in scanning mode) or reported not found. I even at times could not see my own computer through the 'network places'. We set up shortcuts to "run //ken and run //david" which worked until one of us rebooted our computers. after that the IT guy gave up and we abandonned the idea of getting our network to work.

Anyway, the point/arguement is pointless. I'm not about to go through all that hassle to get the network working again. We get along fine without it, not a big loss.

Also, when all this happened, like I said we had a fully working network including internet access prior to both of us upgrading to XP. We got XP for xmas and installed it at the same time (we both have our own copy, not one copy installed on two computers.) I believe it's a problem with XP.

Oh, I forgot about another 'event' after about a year we tried to get the network thing working again, and managed to finally 'see' each other. it Lasted all of two weeks. then MS came out with SP1 for XP. it killed our home network.

Oh the joy of having Windows as your OS. Before you suggest 'Linux' or a dual boot system etc, that's not going to happen. I'm primarily a gamer and artist. Linux has very little to offer me in the gaming arena. and running a windows 'emulator' in linux to play games is stupid.

but, I digress, did I say I digress, well I do. Sorry.

End of story. Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Thanks guys, I take it is a lost cause with XP.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Hey AT, I had/have that same problem. My brother and I can both access the internet (DSL) but we can't see each other over our home network. We both have Win XP Home. I even paid an IT guy to come and try to make the home network work, in the end things got screwed up really bad, and both my brother and I had to format and re-install. We have basically given up on getting the home network to work.

When we have something we want to share, we send it via e-mail, or if it's big, just burn it to a CD.

Before Win XP, I was running win 98 and my brother was running win NT Pro. We both had access to the net and could see each other fine. So I blame WinXP. it's the only thing that has changed on our systems. And I can't understand how a mixed system 98 & NT could work while both systems running the same OS can't. (Oh, we tried the network setup wizard and created a 'network config' floppy disk. It crashed my system and I had to format and re-install. So stay away from that option.)

Nuf said, Cheers! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No, it is not a lost cause, actually it is fairly easy compared to the older MSFT OS's. I have read all the suggestions on how to get it done, and frankly they are confusing as heck. I will try to simplify it, and I do have a 3 computer XP Home network running through my internet router with my printer also.

Just an overview, my cable goes to my Modem, then to my MSI Router/Gateway, this has 4 ports and is 802.11G wireless compatible (Linksys has been a big player for home networking). These type of devices should have a small manual and instruction on how to access (via the network) it's internal settings.

I have 3 computers running as I said, XP Home connected to the router. I also have my printer so all my computers can use the printer as a networked printer, now I don't have to have a computer on to print from one of the other computers.

The thing about XP is that it tries to do EVERYTHING for you, it wants to be the big guy on the network, so basically the first computer that gets turned tries to become "the server" (for you NT folks the PDC), ie looking up computer names and assigning IP addresses, so first we need to stop that.

To do that, you need to physically assign an IP address to each computer, each one needs to be unique, but don't worry for your home network this is easy to do. Open your control panel, open the network connections, you should have an existing connection already there (like Local Area Network Connection 1 or some such), right click on that and choose properties. Then select TCP/IP and select properties. Select "Use the following IP Address". Then you will put 192.168.1.100 (for your first computer and .101 for the next computer, .102 for the next computer, ect...). Click in the subnet mask, it should put numbers there automatically, if not it will be 255.255.255.0 then in the default gateway you will put this number 192.168.1.1 (this is the number that your router will use, all computers need to have this number to know where to look).

For now leave the Obtain DNS server address on auto. There is a way to get it from your router. Those numbers rarely change, so if you have some trouble, you can log into your router (you can find them usually in something like System Status, it will list all the numbers, as long as it is on and connected to the cable modem) and copy the preferred and alt DNS numbers down then add them later.

The next thing you have to do is check on what Work Group each comp is on. Go to the control panel, open system and click on the Computer Name tab, down a bit is Work Group (mine is MSHOME) but it can be anything else as long as every computer is in the same work group, there is a change button to make the change.

Next you need to access your router, that I can not walk you through, just give you ideas from what I have had to do. You will go to your browser and type in the IP address your manual says to use, it usually asks for a password that you change later. Once in, you will want to change the IP address of the router to 192.168.1.1 usually found in a LAN area then Set IP address, the default address should be there from the manual. That should do it, you could go as far as (set how many computers can access your router through the DNS setup, if you use 3 computers, your range will be 192.168.1.100 to 192.168.1.102) but it is not necessary needed since your on the same sub net now and the IP addresses of each XP machine is manually set.

Ok, you done all that, and you look in Windows Explorer then, open the My Network Places, then Entire Network, then Microsoft Windows Network, then MSHOME (or what ever you set) and tada you see the other computers, BUT cant access them, why because of sharing. Sharing is not an easy thing in XP, but I think over all that is good. What I have set up is one folder on each computer that I use as a catchall, from there I can move anywhere I want in system, you might think it is clunky, but better than sharing everything. From there you can do what ever you want. Also, it seems that the common drives/folders accessed will be listed below My Network Places so you dont have to drill down the way you did the first time to find the computers ect...

Take it step by step and you will do fine, just make sure you have the router manual handy ect...It is the only way you can get in and change the default settings.

Good Luck, and may XP Home be with you *snickers

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

carefull there narrew, while your suggestions are good, you might be causeing some problems for AT. Now i agree with you that most of the information is this thread is pretty missguided, based on incorrect assumptions, or just straight wrong. but I have to say you are taking the wrong track.

Changing to static addressing isnt going to do him any favors if he wants an easily managed network or has any adds/moves/changes later. right now, its a safe bet that his DSL device is providing DHCP. theres absolutely nothing wrong with that.

he has two windows machines. they each have their own netbios names. they will need to be in the same workgroup to be able to ping each other by netbios names, and will need to have their personal firewall software disabled.

first off, lets drop the idea that XP does not work on a network, or that you need any additional hardware. i dont know exactly what your setup looks like, but i can make some safe assumptions based on what you said:

you have two computers connected to SOMETHING. probably a hub thats built into some other device. Both computers can access the Internet, so we dont have to worry about modems or routers or any of that ****.

so we need to know how those computers are addressed. from a command prompt (start>run>cmd) you can type "ipconfig" to find out what you ip address is. each PC should have a unique address, which should be provided by your dsl modem / router / whatever. to verify those details, you can type "ipconfig /all" and verify who your DCHP server is. it should be the same for both machines. if there is none, then they already have static addresses. either way, we know your basic IP setup is right, because they can both browse the web. DONT **** WITH YOU IP SETUP IF ITS WORKING, YOU DONT KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT IT.

to test basic ip connectivity, which you should have, try pinging between the machines. "ping [ip address]" where [ip address] is the address of the target machine will do it. so if your two machines are addressed 192.168.1.10 and 192.168.1.11, and you are sitting at the .10 machine, you would type "ping 192.168.1.11" to ping the other one.

if this does not work (request times out, or destination unreachable) then you probably have a problem with personal firewall software installed on one or both machines. it is extremely unlikely that your dsl modem/router/whatever is preventing connections between ports on your internal lan. this is actually totally unheard of. not impossible, but its just too complicated of a feature to be included on most home neworking equipment. put it out of your mind.

so if the ping DOES go through then you probalby have a problem with netbios name resolution. try pinging by name instead of ip address. "ping bob" if bob is the name of your PC. if that doesnt work, double check your computer names. still not working? make sure both machines are in the same workgroup.

i'd be happy to help you troubleshoot it if you drop into #se4 before 5pm, or if you want to shoot me an email. but beware of most of the advice in this thread, its a bunch of fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Wrong Puke, what I did was inside his home network (LAN), I changed nothing on the WAN side, his router will Obtain an IP address (from the cable modem) since most ISP's rarely give a permanent IP address and refresh it every few days.

Going Static is not a problem for a home network, for a company yea, it is a problem on the network management side.

My suggestion, you do not have to worry about netbios naming, firewalls or anything else. And when you say netbios, no company will use it. Netbios is an old protocol that is inefficient (the overhead that it adds to the network may not be much for a home network, but why burden your system).

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

im not going to argue with you about it son. its a dead simple configuration, and you dont need to go changing things that are not broken. home Users also dont need to worry about ip configuration when they add or move PCs.

if your COMFORTABLE with how ip works, sure you can set it up however you want. but you're trying to give a geek's configuration to someone who doesnt know the difference between a bridge and a router.

now stop being snippy.

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Don't know if this will help or hurt.
I connect
two system
running XP Pro
through a
10+- year old Lynksys hub
to a
cable modem, (not DSL)>
enjoy

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

Oh this is very bizzar.

Ok, the Win2k PC sees and access the shared files on the XP PC. The XP PC does see the win2k PC, but is not allowed access. The Win2k PC has no passwords so I don't get it.

However, I can send files from the Win2k PC to the XP PC so I am happy. (Kind of.)

Re: OT: Need Help With Home Networking
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your issue goes back to what I was saying below. XP (and W2K for that matter) uses Permissions to allow Users to access Files/Directories on another machine. There are settings of user Groups and other stuff that, well just makes things complicated on a home network.

What I suggest is that on each machine is to make a Temp Folder and share that folder (just right click on the folder and select Sharing/Security then click the "Share this Folder on the Network" also check the "Allow network Users to make changes to my files").

BUT, only do that to one folder per machine. Sure it is a pain to move something over to your other computer, then go to that computer to put the file where you want it, but there are security features for a reason, even if people find a way around them, but no sense you makeing it easier for them.