|
Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Almost universaly, Star travel in Sci-Fi. involves some sort of Faster-Than-Light travel. Warp drive, Worm holes, Star Gates, etc. Good (read popular) literature reflects the real life and up to a point, SF books tell what we want or at least fantasise about - would't it be nice to travel to stars and still have time to enjoy romance, political intrigue and peacefull retirement. Unfortunately, FTL is likely to be a sweet dream and nothing else. We must confine ourself to at least dozens of years of star travel. Even taking into account the relativistic time dilation, the changes back on Earth make star travel unappetising.
However, this is a dull perspective of a sentient being with about 100 years of life span. But how universall is it ? Now, imagine some extraterrestial life form with life expectancy of , for example, an equivalent of 500 Earth years. It is nothing extraordinarly even by Earth standards and could be possible in slightly different conditions and biology background that favor longer longivity. For such beings, 50 year travel to Alpha Centauri at 0.1c can be perceived as 10 yearsfor us - two election terms only and about the duration of Galileo mission to Jupiter. We are planning a mission to Mars. It will take several years at least but there will be no shortage of volunteers. Similary, for longer living ETs, dozens or even hundreds of years of inter-star travel is no problem at all. It is just our perception of time needed to travel relative to our life span put brakes on our imagination. In summary, there is no need for FTL to make space exploration attracive. The only problem is our pitifull life span. Progress in Medical science and Genetic engineering should surely solve this, right ? |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Lizards would have the advantage. Why? no need for cyro-research. You freeze a snake, you thaw a snake, the snake wriggles off. Saw it once.
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
(DISCLAIMER: the following is based on a purely non-religious viewpoint which the author does not necessarily share.)
Humans are actually one of the worst designed possibilities. They are something like 95% water with a small amount of minerals holding together like a SLIGHTLY less jelly-like Version of some big blob amoeba. Our aging process which we are talking about here is actually oxidation of the iron in our bodies caused by the oxygen we breath. The chance that some other planet will randomly develop along a long line of forking possibilities to end up as a life form whose requirements are its demise would seem slim. (on the other hand the new quantum threories bring up some interesting space-drive story plots) |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
i once posted in the starfury forum about some holes in the classical physics theory that can (in a very far fetched way) allow FTL, my explanation in the starfury forum was most complete but the theory is the follow:
1. According to the classical physics theory nothing can travel faster than light, even light can´t travel fast than itself. 2. Pay attention in the "faster than" part, because velocity is only a constante of a object in relation of another object, an object, in itself, don´t have any velocity, it only have speed in relation with another object. 3. So, according to the classical theory, nothing can travel, in relation to any other object, faster than light. 4. But consider a light particle (i know that the light is sometimes a wave and sometimes a particle, but lets consider it a particle for this discussion) that is emmited in a particular direction (lets call this particle Photon A), now, another particle is emmited in th exact opposite direction of the first particle (let´s call the second particle Photon B). 5. According to the classical theory, Photon A can´t travel in relationto Photon B more faster than light speed but, since light can´t travel in any other velocity than the velocity of light (obvious this) them Photon A is traveling, in relation to Photon B, at twice the light speed... 6. Bingo, you have somethin traveling at FTL speeds, and at the same time we found a hole in the classical physics theory... Othe theory, called "Quantum Entanglement" involves quantic particles that allow comunication in FTL speeds, and what happens is the following: 1. Create in a accelerator 2 quantic particles identical with one another, its alwo important that the 2 particles be created at the same time by the same event (i.e. in the same atomic collision). 2. Separate the 2 particles by a loong distance, a distance where you can measure light speed (you don´t need 300.000 kms because our actual instruments can measure quantum alterations in less tha a secont, something like 30.000 km is more than enough) 3. Now, change the state of the first particle (this can be done with another collision against the particle, but you will need several tries and particles because the majority of the collisions don´t change the particle state but instead create new particles). 4. At the same instant that the first particle changes state, the second partcile also changes, no matter how distant from the first, and, at the exact same instant, like the particles had some kind of FTL communication among themselves... I know that the 2nd example only demonstrates FTL communication, and no FTL travel, but its a start.... |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
See what I mean ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif No ! No ! No ! Einstein was wrong, FTL is possible !
Makinus, please go to a decent college and take a course in physics. Both your questions have been raised and discussed many many times before. The consencus is still the same. FTL is impossible. But back to my point: It is completely irrelevant. Inter-star travel is in fact very short but not for the life of some very-short-lived and puny infestaion on the surfacy of a tiny rock hurled in the space. Our urge of FTL only underlines the restrains of our transient nature. Mind over body, that's the challenge. Live LONG and prosper http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [ July 19, 2004, 20:18: Message edited by: oleg ] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
yes, I have wonderd about that also Makinus...
what IS not moveing? the speed of light ralitive to what? |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
ole: can you point to me where i can get more information about the theories i mentioned? i read them somewhere on the net and they looked pretty solid theories, but if i´m wrong i want to know why i´m wrong...
i really believe that someday we will be able to create a way to travel with FTL speeds, and the main reason that i believe this is because what everyone said when some loonies told that breaking the sound barrier was possible... what they told? They told that it would be "impossible". Never underestimate human inventiveness.... even if our gran-gran-grandchildren don´t do it, it will be done someday... |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Faster than light may be impossible, but I don't see how anyone can know that absolutely.
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Ah, but the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy provides with the perfect answer to this problem. Let's see: there is nothing faster than light, save for bad news, whose speed is subject to completely different laws (*). Such are the words of wisdom contained in the Guide.
Therefore, a vessel powered by bad news would be able to travel at a unpareled speed. Alas, this cannot be tested in practice because of the effect of such an energy source on the crew; depression occurs too early, as nobody can watch such a flow of bad news without losing all faith in the universe. (*Feel free to provide the actual quote from the Guide about the speed of bad news) |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Well, I was educated on Landau & Liftschich Physics course. For English speakers I can only recomend Feinman course on physics - it is quite solid.
As to idiotic comparison of Sound and Light barriers - this is really sickening. No physist ever objected to traveling faster than sound - bullets and shells did it 100 years before that. It was an engeeniring problem, not theoretical. FTL is different. Please do not make cheep and idiotic comparison. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
[decloaks]
I am from the future. It can be done. [cloaks] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Anyway, back from FTL to the real world.
There is nothing prohibitive with light speed limit, it is our limited and very short life span that makes space travel so daunting. Just call our year a month and imagine you still live 70*12 of new months and you will realize that travel to Sirius is just a cruise. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
FTL isnt such a big factor now that Quantum string theory has broached the subject of matter/energy entering from another membrane (the new replacement for the big bang theory). It also has "solidified" on 11 dimensions (well 10 dimensions and "another for totally different reasons"). We are #4 if you are wondering.
Dont feel bad, they have nullified many standard arguments such as the "matter/energy cannot be made or destroyed" which was considered to have safely settled alot of subjects from UFOs to paranormal to religious to 42. -- (appropriate sig for 42) "I checked it very thoroughly," said the computer, "and that quite definitely is the answer. I think the problem, to be quite honest with you, is that you've never actually known what the question is." [ July 19, 2004, 20:55: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
oleg: sorry if you got affended by my commentaries, it was not my intention, and, by the way, my area of expertise is not physics, i´m only saying what i read on the net and what i thought were solid theories (while far fetched).... maybe i believed too easily in wrong theories because i do wish that humanity spread to the stars and FTL drives would be a novel way to do it...
As the comparasion of the sound barrier and the light barrier i do realize that they are completely different barriers... one being an engineering barrier and another a physical barrier, i only was pointing that, when the sound barrier was not broken yet "scientists" said that the barrier would be impossible to be broken, in the exact way the actual physicists (is my term correct?) are saying today... i never said that the 2 barrier were impossible for the same reason... i was only comparing the reactions of the old scientists to the actual ones, and while the reasons for the impossibility of breaking the barriers (sound and light) are completely different, the reactions of the scientists are the same... Since you look like to have far better credentials than me to speak about physics i bow to your knowledge and admit that i´m only a curious about physics, being law my area of expertise... btw: there is any good net resources about physics, mainly about advanced physics (like quantum physics) that can be (more or less) inteligible to just curious people like me? Oleg: i really don´t wish to offend you in any way, and i really understand your indignation if the theories i talked about are already proved wrong, because i too would be indignant if someone spoke about brazilian law saying things that don´t represent the reality, i only spoke the theories because i didn´t knew they are alredy proved wrong and, if you can, can you point to me the reasons that they were wrong? i really want to know... |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Damn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I knew it would drift once again to FTL, Quantum thory and Einstein-is-idiot rant. Please, take note of my point: the perception of time is relative. We measure it to our life, or even more accurate to our reproduction cycle. But compared to fundamental constants, like light speed, it is purely accidental and should not dominate our perceptions.
The way to stars is through the changes in our body maintenance, not by futile attempts to overcome the laws of nature. Speed of light is incrediable fast by itself, we can only reach fractions so far. But take a look around, we are living longer and longer. Soon enough we may contemplate a trip to Alpha Centauri and back/ |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
And I know because I have searched for it often. I can tell you lots of places NOT to go to. If you want to swim your brain with some of the many things that QT is mucking up, try this site. http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/f-66 |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
So...if FTL travel is impossible (or possible) then are there other means to get to other systems in a timely manner? I mean, by the time we were to get a ship or sattelite to the closest star system (um... I forget which one it is) the people on the ship and the ground would be...what? 70 years old?
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
I think the real problem is the effect of time-dilation (when travelling near the speed of light, time "slows down" by a factor of 1/sqrt(1-v^2/c^2), so travelling at 99.99% the speed of light makes 5000 years seem like 1 year).
In other words, the Earth goes through another ice age every time you go on vacation. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Nothing is impossible. The solution may be unfathomable and may take centuries to solve, but to say something is impossible is to close your mind to the possibility of succeeding in the face of stubborness.
The realization of a successful FTL application may be as foreign and inconcieveable to us as splitting an atom would be to a caveman. Just try to remember: An open mind is an open door. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
oleg, you're speaking from physical point of view, not biological - your assumption that one day we will live thousands years is as voluntaristic as FTL gibberish. Even best medicine can't overcome biological imperfection.
And even if we could slow down subjective time perseption, it's impossible to slow down chemical reactions in our body (unless you're hibernated). |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
There's a good introduction to quantum theory on the New Scientist site:
Scroll to the bottom of the page for the "New Scientist's Guide to the Quantum World" articles. http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic...PBAPHMECG#ltst |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
OK, my 0.02.
-I know it's OT, but I believe we will crack FTL sooner or later. Probably much, much later. -Once we've sent people to Mars and got a few off-Earth settlements within the solar system, colonising other stars isn't going to look that scary any more. The technology isn't really the problem- if you can fly to and colonise Mars/the moon, you've already overcome most of the technical obstacles for flying to and colonising another star system- it's just the scale and the timescale of the project that become prohibitive. With the X-prize and other tech advancements, those scales are going to look less and less daunting. -There are plenty of stars within a (current) human lifetime's reach, and once the tech/costs become sensible people will go, even if it means a one-way trip. It's part of human nature to explore and to settle new land, and there will always be people with nothing to tie them to the planet of their birth. Look at the way the Americas were colonised (the second time)- by people disaffected with the society they lived in. The way things are going we'll be getting more and more of those in the years to come, I'm sure. Of course, most people would probably wait until there was some proof that there are actually planets (although Eart-like ones are probably highly unlikely) at the other end of their journey, but advancing telescope tech will answer this question soon enough. As soon as we get proof of any interesting planet around another star, I reckon we'll be sending an unmanned probe. Of course, if telescopes were to pick up signs of a breathable planet around a nearby star, the world would be falling over itself for a closer look. -I think human lifespans will be getting a LOT longer over the next few hundred years. Apparently the only reason that our cells stop replacing themselves (I.E. the only reason we age) is that our genes tell them to. Learn to switch off that command and we can stay young forever. -I think cryogenics (for humans, anyway) is probably quite a long way off and I'm not sure it will be the answer anyway. Although obviously more expensive and complex, generation ships would be a more human solution, imho. -Finally, we're overlooking the other great interstellar colonisation possibility: Sending NON-HUMAN colonists: An AI has a theoretical lifetime of... well... a very long time. And again, that technology is creeping up on us faster than most of us realise. [ July 20, 2004, 08:43: Message edited by: dogscoff ] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
About two light paricles going in the opposite direction.. they still have a relative speed between eachoter of the speed of light, and the speed of light isn't an absolute, it varies by the medium in which light travels.
When we talk of the speed of light we usually mean in vacuum. You have to seperate the perceived speed from the relative speed between two objects. From one of the particles it will seem that the particle is moving with the speed of light from the other, but from a observer standing besides the particles the distance between them will increase with twice the speed of light, as both are moving with the speed of light x 1, but the measured speed one of them is moving with relative to the other is the speed of light x1. So none of them are moving with more than the speed of light, but the distance between them increases with the speed of light x 2. So to distance oneself from earth with x 2 the speed of light, the earth must be accelerated to the speed of light ion the opposite direction... Here is a really good explanation, I'll translate it later today or tomorrow: Svar: Det är ett experimentellt faktum, att den ljusfart man mäter är en och densamma och oberoende av med vilken fart man rör sig i förhållande till ljuskällan eller med vilken fart ljuskällan rör sig i förhållande till en själv. Ett vardagligt exempel på att det förhåller sig så är GPS, som bygger på gångtiden för signaler från satelliter på 22.000 kilometers höjd till en mottagare. Om ljusfarten berodde på ljuskällans (här: satelliternas) rörelse i förhållande till mottagaren, skulle mottagarens läge bara kunna bestämmas på ett par kilometer när med en GPS; som bekant är noggrannheten även hos en enkel GPS åtminstone tusen gånger bättre. Även en (tänkt) observatör som följde med den ena av dina två fotoner, skulle upptäcka att den andra fotonen rörde sig bort från honom/henne med en och samma ljusfart. MEN: en observatör på stjärnan (eller på någon annan punkt som inte rör sig i förhållande till stjärnan) skulle mycket riktigt se de två fotonerna avlägsna sig FRÅN VARANDRA med dubbla ljusfarten. Observera dock, att det i detta fall inte är fråga om något som RÖR SIG med dubbla med ljusfarten. Vardera fotonen rör sig i förhållande till den andra fotonen eller i förhållande till observatören med ljusfarten och inget annat. Däremot ser observatören på stjärnan att AVSTÅNDET mellan de två fotonerna ökar på ett sådant sätt, att det är lika med dubbla ljusfarten gånger tiden sedan fotonerna skickades ut. Man måste göra åtskillnad mellan RELATIV fart (ett föremåls fart i förhållande till en observatör, det vill säga en observatörs mätning av ändringen i föremålets avstånd per tid från honom/henne) och ÖMSESIDIG fart (en observatörs mätning av ändringen i avstånd per tid mellan två föremål). |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
Another example - ocean bottom: whole new Earth to explore. I don't belive into the exploring nature of humanity anymore. It's exhausted. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
But seriously. I read on a news site that Stephen Hawking has changed his mind about all matter being sucked into blackholes. I found the following link http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99996151 Perusing the link shows me that I don't exactly understand the point, but my own point is that if Stephen Hawking can admit he was wrong perhaps Einstein might have been wrong about the limit to the speed of light. I am no physicist so I can make no argument, merely point out the possibility of a mistake. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
I think that you're giving it a bad focus.
Why do WE have to be abe to reach stars?, if we can travel at 0'01·C, then none of us will reach Alpha Centauri... but if you can build a self sufficient vessel, with an habitable biosphere, maybe the gradchilds of our grandchilds could settle in a far distant world. The matter is NOT lifespan, a human individual cannot live forever and i hope we never reach that point, but the HUMAN beeings can, as specie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
However there are plenty of dispossessed, persecuted, oppressed, evacuated or just plain unhappy people in the world who'd love to set up their own little societies in those places, given the opportunity- it's just that they are all too damn poor to (a) get there and (b) buy the equipment they'd need to survive once they do. Those people who could afford (a) and (b) are quite comfortable where they are, thanks very much. After all, if you can afford to colonise Antarctica, you can afford a cosy little house in the first world somewhere. However this will change. The "richer" populations of the world are fragmenting into lots and lots of little subcultures and subsets of subcultures. As populations increase and with improved communications to bring like-minded folk together, even fairly obscure subGroups can number in the thousands and actually look and behave like real communities. What I'm getting around to is that some of these Groups will inevitably splinter from 'mainstream' society, being dissatisfied with the politics or economics they live under or whatever. And these are people from the rich parts of the world, so as the prices of space/ Antarctic colonisation come down they will actually have the money to go off and try to set up their own societies here and there. I remember reading about one internet community a while back that was raising money to build an artificial island in the middle of some ocean and set up their own nation. I don't think they got very far, but they had a lot of members and it shows that the intent is there. Hell, if you won the lottery, wouldn't you be tempted to found your own little city-state of like-minded people somewhere? (Do a google for the "The World" project- a kind of real-life Magrathea off the coast of Dubai, where they are building designer paradise islands for celebrities.) Quote:
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
dogscoff: about you idea of sendin AI controlled ships to other stars, you know a novel called "Songs of Distant Earth"?
In this novel Robotic ships carrying human genetic material are sent to other stars, where robots will create human beings "in vitro" and grow and teach them to adulthood, and then the humans would take control and colonize the world... |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Many years ago I read a novel where the humans had been transported by robot ship in vitro then grown at the new system. Later in the novel the female lead finds out the enemy humans on the other planet includes men. She wonders why the women on the other planet would do something as superflous as grow men when its more efficient to only raise women.
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Correct me if I am mistaken: You cannot go faster than the speed of light through a *vacuum*. You can, however, go faster than the speed of light through a different medium, such as water. Water slows the speed of light significantly, and you can make a particle go faster than how fast light goes through water - and weird things happen.
Yes? No? |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
I read a book Last year called (I think) Schild's ladder. It had a nice idea- automated probes were sent to distant worlds to terraform them. When they arrive and have finished the terraforming, they build/grow human bodies. Then the humans transmit their personalities/ memories/ intelligence as data (at light speed) to be downloaded into the new body. Meanwhile the old body goes into stasis to await its owner's return.
Damn wierd book, with some seriously heavy (and at least partially made up, I think) science. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
Sorry, someone had to say it. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
dogscoff, I suspect you ideas about commutinies of unhappy and strange-minded people who are willing to explore new frontier are just your ideas, which has nothing close to reality. Just another example:
Russia, Siberia. About 10000000 sq.km of taiga (nothern forest). Almost uninhabited (0,0056-4 humans per sq.km). Plus millions of people distracted with current economical and political course. According to your theory, it's a great place to establish communities where you can live state apart. And it will cost you around 200-300 $ to arrive there. But no. People are leaving those places to live in towns. They want civilization, media and goods. They warn to earn money to be able to spend them for poisonous food and hitech bells and whistles. Paradox? Probably they are not organized enough? Well, maybe. Internet is all I have: search "Siberia communities + habitats" reterned a bunch of links to tourist firm's sites. No alternative societies, communities, nothing. Search "Siberia + abandon + leaving" returned lots of links to articles about depopulation of Siberia and similar problems. Humanity in 16th and 21st centuries are very different things, I have to say. Edit: some typos [ July 20, 2004, 16:07: Message edited by: aiken ] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Enstien himself once said, when asked about his theories, that he could be completely wrong.
Gandalf's comments on Quantum Theory opens a whole new door. Some fields of study into Quantum Mechanics suggest that FTL may be possible just not to our understanding of Classic or Relativity physics. What's happened is that the human race has developed 3 seperate and distinct theories on physics: Classical Relativity Quantum. The problem is that these 3 theories are mutually exclusive. It is hoped (and this is where Membrane and String Theories come in) that a Unification Theory can be developed which will explain all of 3 theories into one. Because of some of the concepts with Quantum Mechanics, there are viable research communities attempting to develope theories for FTL. MIT and NASA in particular have them. NASA's Advanced Concepts Labratories have developed many theories that have developed into something usable and one of their projects is for Quantum Propulsion. Which, theoretically, could be FTL. Another more interesting proposal with Quantum theory IMO isn't Quantum Communications but Quantum Power. Using the description outlined earlier imagine that you Quantum Teleported electrons instead of photons. Assuming a transciver could be built small enough, you could have elliminate all need for batteries, powerlines, etc. All the electrical power would be "beamed" directly to the device needing it anywhere in the universe instantaniously. Combine that with the advent of Fusion power and the world would be changed on a scale comparable to the invention of the telephone, automobile, or computers. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Makinus, I am sorry for being sort of a bully in some previous Posts. I just want to attract an attention to the fact that the sub-light travel "too slow" is purely a conception of our perception. If we can live just 10 times longer, it should not be a psycological problem at all. Yes, it takes a lot of time but people wheo started the project should still get the ovation and due recognition during their life span, not two generations after the death.
Yes, I understand that extending our life span to 1K years looks almost as impossible as FTL. But it CAN be done. There are no fundamental obstacles. Only the nature of humanity. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif [ July 20, 2004, 17:54: Message edited by: oleg ] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
There is no way any politician can start a project that requires immence investments which results can be seen only after we are all dead. But if the same project can be finished during lifetime, better still election campain, there WILL be some public support at least. Inter-star travel is perceived as taking years and years. But if it can be perceived as months, even days for our offsprings (or slow living ETs) who would enjoy much longer and productive life, it should become a realistic endeavor Screw FTL, genetic engeeeniring is our bright and shiny future http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif [ July 20, 2004, 20:10: Message edited by: oleg ] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
When you have radioactive materials in the water, and they emit subatomic particles at above 2/3 c, then they produce Cherenkov radiation, which is the equivalent of a sonic boom. However, relativistic effects are relative to c, not the speed of light in a local medium. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
about my earlier affirmation, the speed of photons traveling in opposite directions was explained already by other, but the Quantum Entanglement theori was not.
I found the following article in eikipedia that explains what Quantum Entanglement is and what are its consequences: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement According to the article Quantum Entanglement is possible, but because of the imposibility of defining the way in wich an entangled particle colapses it is impossible to transmit any kind of information using this method, some scientists provide possible solutions for this barrier but the general consensus is that these "solutions" have their own impossibilities and can´t be used to transmit information in FTL speeds... So Oleg was right and i was wrong, because while Quantum Entanglement really exists and 2 entangled particles can change states simultaniously over huge distances in a FTL way, this method can´t be used to transmit information because you cant predict in wich state the entangled particle will collapse... |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Two Positions:
Humans will live long enough to develope FTL Humans will kill themselves off first. "Some days you get the bear. Some days the bear gets you." |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Tunneling is an interesting phenomenon, that I'll have to read further into before I say anything, read along with me:
FTL Experiments FTL PHysics [ July 21, 2004, 06:45: Message edited by: Ruatha ] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
I see only one problem with the whole concept of establishing remote colonies that will never exchange population (ala remote seeding ships). That problem is called Evolution. When a population of critters is cut off from the main population of critters, the two populations evolve along different path. Eventually, the splinter critters aren't critters anymore, they're creepy crawleys, or what have you.
So if HUMANS establish remote colonies in other starsystems WITHOUT the ability to travel back and forth fairly regularly, those remote colonies will eventually not even be human colonies anymore. They'd be aliens! [ July 21, 2004, 21:09: Message edited by: dumbluck ] |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Logically, if we could get there to establish the colony in the first place, it shouldn't take much longer until we could make a round trip. But, yeah, that's why places like Austrailia have so many unique creatures.
The non-humans are different too. j/k http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Slick. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
Quote:
|
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
If we accept the assumption that FTL travel and communication is absolutly impossible (I don't, but you obviously don't want to argue about it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) then I highly doubt that we as a species will ever travel beyond our solar system. The distances are just too great. And what reason would we have to go? There is plenty of things right here in our solar system to explore and plenty or room for colonies. Why spend decades or centuries travelling to another system when you can spend months or years and stay close by.
Even if you could expand the human life span to thousands of years, who wants to spend hundreds of years in the void between the stars? Very boring. And it would be an astronomical risk to go that far out with no hope of rescue if your ship broke down. And it hard to keep a complex mechanical device like a spaceship functioning that long while carrying everything with you you need to make repairs. Perhaps if we make long distance contact with some alien race we'll want to meet them up close. But the distances would be so great it just wouldn't be practical. |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
who said that FTL travel must be in real space Star Trek, Star Wars or B5 FTL trevel is possible
if i only could find that damn book.......... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif |
Re: Semi-OT: We will go to Stars.
You sound pretty pessimistic, Geo...
Given all the people in the world, I'm sure there are enough that are willing to spend the rest of their life on the ship, especially if its big enough to be somewhat comfortable. At the very least, you could fill it with a load of criminals, as an alternative to death row or life in prison... ----- As for the mechanicals... if you hollowed out an asteroid, you wouldn't have to worry so much about mechanical problems... Just keep the power plants running (fusion?), so you have light for your plants and the rest of the ecosystem. Backups, technically trained people, and a small custom parts factory should do it. You could use Earth power to get boosted on your course, and then the colony needs only to deploy an engine to stop at the end. An ion drive and/or a magnetic sail would be fairly easy to do. You could even build them just before you arrive, using the latest designs from Earth. You don't actually need to do anything on the outside of the "ship" until you arrive, except perhaps the occasional telescope observations, and radio/lasered communications with earth. And the rock will protect you from just about everything. |
| All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:52 AM. |
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.